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Hamas invaded Israel 2023

ArmyRick said:
So the fact that the Jews occupied and lived on this land 3300-3400 years ago means nothing?
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Basically. I really don’t care where people lived or had lived other than a interest in the history of the area. We all came from Africa originally, its just where we ended up afterwards.

I don’t sit here and go I deserve land in the Orkney Islands because thats where my ancestors hailed from, nor any of the lands they would have travelled to get to that point. Its neat history, but otherwise it doesn’t matter anymore.
OldSolduer said:
So it’s ok to pillage and murder?

Is Israel establishing death camps.

Gimme a god damn break here. Israel isn’t perfect but your assertions smack of anti Jewish sentiment.

Besides - in 1948 Israel was attacked the day after it was declared an independent state,
Your lack of empathy shows.
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Did I say its ok to pillage and murder? No

I said I can understand why the Palestinians hate Israel. Honestly I don’t give a single F about them being Jewish or the Palestinians being Muslim, both are stupid religions as far as I am concerned.

The fact that you jump to ‘anti-semitism’ instantly when calling a state out on the wrongs it is committing and continues to commit shows me your not interested in right or wrong, only shutting down debate on the topic.

Again do you agree with my natives kicking you out of your home example, or do you feel that it isn’t comparable?

Your lack of empathy for the Palestinians shows.
 
Eaglelord17 said:
Israel is basically running a apartheid state. There is a reason they were really close with South Africa pre-apartheid ending. If fact if they have nukes, thats where they would have got it.

Just because your ancestors may have been genocided doesn’t give you the right to take similar actions to others, especially people who had nothing to do with it.

For those wondering why the Palestinians hate Israel, if you were treated the same way you wouldn’t like the person doing it to you either.

The Palistanians are just supposed to accept that Israel is going to treat them like shit, periodically kill them, evict them, break international law with no consequences, blockade them, and smile at the people doing it to them?

If a member of the native group that used to live where you are came up to you armed with guns, forcefully evicted you from your home, and if you resist shot you or had the military shoot you would you like them? Would you just go along with it? I mean they were genocided so that must make it ok?

Again I am not anti-Israel, I can just understand the injustice being done to the Palestinians as well. I can understand where the hatred comes from. I can understand Israel isn’t acting in good faith with them. And I can understand Israel isn’t doing anything to cause that hatred to decrease.
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Israel gave up Gaza whom they had captured from Egypt, giving up that land has cost them a dear penny. Eventually the Israeli's will lose the demographic battle in the WB. If they lose the WB, Israel is indefensible and will be eventually invaded and destroyed in that case. There is no "Win-win" in this situation. Somebody has to lose. If you live in Canada, then you are living in land stolen from some First Nation, are you willing to give it up? Even many of the current FN are claiming land they rightfully stole from other FN, some that were wiped out in various inter tribal conflicts.
 
Kirkhill said:
History is only useful insofar as it tells us that we are all the same and that if the world is a screwed up place today it has always been so.

So what happens tomorrow?
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Well said.

A. Israel exists, and will continue to exist. Israeli's deserve to live their lives free from the threat extermination, and free from the threat of violence from within Palestine.

B. Palestinians exist, and will continue to exist. They deserve better than the treatment they have received under Israeli administration.

The latter statement does not invalidate the former, or vice versa. The latter does not justify terrorism and murder. The former does not justify warcrimes.

The status quo is not tenable for either side.

My simplistic and naive viewpoint is that the surrounding Arab countries have gobs of money. If the Arab world wanted a free Palestine they could completely fund and support UN enforcement of a demilitarized and independent Palestine, solving B and acknowledging A. But they don't acknowledge A, and fixing B only removes a friction point that they hope to use as a catalyst to one day, somehow, erase Israel. So we get influence campaigns, protests, and terrorist proxies while Palestinians live in squalor and borders remain closed to refugees.
 
IKnowNothing said:
Well said.

A. Israel exists, and will continue to exist. Israeli's deserve to live their lives free from the threat extermination, and free from the threat of violence from within Palestine.

B. Palestinians exist, and will continue to exist. They deserve better than the treatment they have received under Israeli administration.

The latter statement does not invalidate the former, or vice versa. The latter does not justify terrorism and murder. The former does not justify warcrimes.

The status quo is not tenable for either side.

My simplistic and naive viewpoint is that the surrounding Arab countries have gobs of money. If the Arab world wanted a free Palestine they could completely fund and support UN enforcement of a demilitarized and independent Palestine, solving B and acknowledging A. But they don't acknowledge A, and fixing B only removes a friction point that they hope to use as a catalyst to one day, somehow, erase Israel. So we get influence campaigns, protests, and terrorist proxies while Palestinians live in squalor and borders remain closed to refugees.
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The Arab nations want nothing to do with Palestinians and the their only value was as a distraction from the issues their own populations have. The only country that came close to offering something like citizenship to Palestinians was Syria, but then it ended up attacking the "refugee camp" when they didn't do as they were told 3,196 Syrian Palestinians Were Killed by Syrian Regime Forces, including 491 Due to Torture, Between March 2011 and July 2020, and 49 Appeared in Caesar Photos | Syrian Network for Human Rights

As for Egypt, Hamas would rather remain friends with the Muslim Brotherhood, than to make peace with Egypt, leading to the Southern Gaza border being more or less permanently closed. Jordan tried to help the Pals and got Black September for their troubles. Other Arab States have had similar problems with Palestinian refugees.
 
The West Bank is a position with the advantage of interior lines and could be used to strike out at almost any part of Israel that matters. The rhetoric and behaviour of people opposed to Israel suggest that for Israel's security the WB will eventually have to be part of Israel. That would mean the population mix will be adjusted and governance will eventually change. That would happen irrespective of what it means in international law. The UN has failed to be impartial; the US is undependable; diplomatic pressure hardly matters. Israel is well on its way to being able to withstand whatever economic pressure might be brought to bear. A military solution involving a broader coalition than just angry Arabs is a cost not worth paying.
 
But serious for a moment. Anyone else have think we are on a knife's edge?

Is it 7:00 am June 28, 1914? And in a hour or two the world changes?

Or just another day in the 21 century? (this is not the 21st century I promised as kid)

 
Eaglelord17 said:
Your lack of empathy for the Palestinians shows.
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And that is where you have miscalculated and misjudged me. The situation they are in is horrible and as I stated "Israel ain't perfect" the use of mass murder by Hamas et al is inexcusable, no matter what others may say.
AND BTW you do realize Israel is surrounded by enemies, despite all the treaties etc that have been signed.
 
Spencer100 said:
But serious for a moment. Anyone else have think we are on a knife's edge?

Is it 7:00 am June 28, 1914? And in a hour or two the world changes?

Or just another day in the 21 century? (this is not the 21st century I promised as kid)

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We are - we have been here before and somehow cool heads have prevailed. With Vlad in Moscow and Xi in Beijing....
 
Spencer100 said:
But serious for a moment. Anyone else have think we are on a knife's edge?

Is it 7:00 am June 28, 1914? And in a hour or two the world changes?

Or just another day in the 21 century? (this is not the 21st century I promised as kid)

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No. Not even close.

But one could always hope ;)


1697747664412.png
 
KevinB said:
Israel doesn’t negotiate, and their idea of a Hostage Negotiator is spelled JDAM.
They have no interest in a Mogadishu like street battle trying to rescue hostages and I believe feel that bombing them is most likely the most humane option.
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So, this?
 
Iran's president is not alone in wiping Israel off the map. A group of academics and journalists are eradicating Israel - not with nuclear weapons but with ink and paper. On bookshelves in the West, you can see quite a number of books which wipe Israel off the map, and it is almost impossible to find any book - apart from Alan Dershowitz's writings - which refute their arguments. These books are not attacking the occupation, but the very idea of a Jewish state.


When you are surrounded by countries who print maps and your country is not on those maps. World news shows those maps, there is a problem.

This war would be equal to Canada invading the USA. Once the Israel side starts their operations, it will be messy for everyone in the area, because Israel has not lost a war ever. They do not seem to start them but they sure do finish them in a grand style. Arabs countries learned that in the last 40 years not to play games. Now a new generation has to learn
 
The folks over at Bellingcat have a preliminary analysis of the explosion at the Al-Ahli Baptist Hospital and while they are not ready to confirm who was responsible, one of the organizations they talked to had this to say:

As noted by Marc Garlasco, a Military Advisor at PAX for Peace’s Protection of Civilians team, the impact point does not appear to be consistent with the 500, 1000 or 2000-pound bombs used in Joint Direct Attack Munitions (JDAMs).
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The complete article can be found here.
 
FormerHorseGuard said:
This war would be equal to Canada invading the USA. Once the Israel side starts their operations, it will be messy for everyone in the area, because Israel has not lost a war ever. They do not seem to start them but they sure do finish them in a grand style. Arabs countries learned that in the last 40 years not to play games. Now a new generation has to learn
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Hmmm Canada invade the US.....I like it. Someone put a thought in JT's head.....We can get the Windsor Reg and EKS to walk over the bridge in OP Grand Fenwick, shout we invade. Then stop call Ottawa and inform HM Forces have surrendered. Just make sure they find the Mich NG building and avoid the street gangs. The CAF is equipped enough to take them on.



May be the easiest way to get JT out....lol
 
FormerHorseGuard said:
This war would be equal to Canada invading the USA. Once the Israel side starts their operations, it will be messy for everyone in the area, because Israel has not lost a war ever. They do not seem to start them but they sure do finish them in a grand style. Arabs countries learned that in the last 40 years not to play games. Now a new generation has to learn
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The problem is that Israel needs to win every time. The Arabs only have to win once.
 
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