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Hamas invaded Israel 2023

gryphonv said:

What an embarrassment to Canada.
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It's complicated.

Trudeau grapples with divided Liberal caucus as he navigates Israel-Hamas war​

STEVEN CHASESENIOR PARLIAMENTARY REPORTER
MARIEKE WALSHSENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER
PUBLISHED YESTERDAYUPDATED 3 HOURS AGO
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www.theglobeandmail.com

Trudeau grapples with divided Liberal caucus as he navigates Israel-Hamas war

The prime minister shows caution in responding to Gaza hospital explosion as he faces pressure from supporters of Israelis and Palestinians to take a stronger position
www.theglobeandmail.com www.theglobeandmail.com


Prime Minister Justin Trudeau is grappling with a Liberal caucus that’s split over the Israel-Hamas war – at least eight MPs are calling for a ceasefire – even as he champions the Israeli government’s right to defend itself.

Mr. Trudeau is facing pressure from supporters of Israelis and supporters of Palestinians to take stronger positions in the conflict.

Behind closed doors, Liberal MPs say some members of their caucus are pushing for a tougher line against Israel and its air strikes and siege against Gaza. At the same time, they acknowledge, a significant number of others are making the case that Israel has a right to defend itself and it’s not Canada’s job to tell Israelis how to conduct this defence.
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Big Tent politics.
 
gryphonv said:
Yeah I guess his handlers are telling him the Hamas supporters vote is worth more than losing international reputation
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Not every Palestinian is a member of Hamas. And not every Hamas supporter is Palestinian. MSM have shown that the "educated elite" support Palestine and Hamas and that's a significant chink of his base. Clearly, he thinks the votes of those supporters are important, despite a previous Liberal government declaring Hamas a terrorist organization.
 
Haggis said:
Not every Palestinian is a member of Hamas. And not every Hamas supporter is Palestinian. MSM have shown that the "educated elite" support Palestine and Hamas and that's a significant chink of his base. Clearly, he thinks the votes of those supporters are important, despite a previous Liberal government declaring Hamas a terrorist organization.
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Sadly until the Palestinians decide to break Hamas, they are the Palestinians problem.
 
Haggis said:
Not every Palestinian is a member of Hamas. And not every Hamas supporter is Palestinian. MSM have shown that the "educated elite" support Palestine and Hamas and that's a significant chink of his base. Clearly, he thinks the votes of those supporters are important, despite a previous Liberal government declaring Hamas a terrorist organization.
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Fair, but actions of Hamas directly reflects on the reputation of Palestinians, just like actions of JT and the liberals directly reflect on our reputation as Canadians. We may not be all support's of the liberals but they still affect how we look as a whole.

I am not comparing Liberals to Hamas, just an elected leader of a nation has control over that nations reputation.
 
Good2Golf said:
Not sure how the USN’s C2 works in that case, OS. I’d guess it would be whoever the Fleet CinC is for the CSG that normally is in the Med? 🤷🏻‍♂️
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If only someone on here new naval operations... oh hey guys!

Each one of the CSGs would be an individual and unique Task Group with the Commander of the strike group exercising overall tactical command of the forces within his task group.

Operational Control* for all TGs in the AOR would fall to CENTCOM.

Now, like CJOC in Canada, CENTCOM is a joint HQ and doesn't actually directly control the units within it's AOR, plus it's more often lead by an Army or Air Force general who wouldn't know what to do with a destroyer anyhow. So, instead CENTCOM has a "Joint Force Maritime Component Commander" exercise operational control over the naval task groups within it's AOR.

The JFMCC for CENTCOM is Commander Naval Forces Central Command (NAVCENT), also know as Commander 5th Fleet out of Bahrain.

Of course, this is only assuming that the CSGs actually transfer their operational command and/or control over to CENTCOM/NAVCENT. They don't automatically chop over just because they are in their AOR.

*Note: OPCOM and OPCON, and TACCOM and TACCON definitions are confusing and fuzzy, and can be applied differently depending on the overarching structure of your military/navy.
 
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Lumber said:
Of course, this is only assuming that the CSGs actually transfer their operational command and/or control over to CENTCOM/NAVCENT. They don't automatically chop over just because they are in their AOR.
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It does in the case of hostilities, or combat operations, then operational controls transfer.

Even very special assets fall under theatre command then. Which makes an absolute mess out of the CoC linkages.
It’s gotten better as there are components sections for each within the theatre commands - but misuse, poor application of assets can still occur.
 
Lumber said:
If only someone on here new naval operations... oh hey guys!

Each one of the CSGs would be an individual and unique Task Group with the Commander of the strike group exercising overall tactical command of the forces within his task group.

Operational Command for all TGs in the AOR would fall to CENTCOM.

Now, like CJOC in Canada, CENTCOM is a joint HQ and doesn't actually directly control the units within it's AOR, plus it's more often lead by an Army or Air Force general who wouldn't know what to do with a destroyer anyhow. So, instead CENTCOM has a "Joint Force Maritime Component Commander" exercise operational control over the naval task groups within it's AOR.

The JFMCC for CENTCOM is Commander Naval Forces Central Command (NAVCENT), also know as Commander 5th Fleet out of Bahrain.

Of course, this is only assuming that the CSGs actually transfer their operational command and/or control over to CENTCOM/NAVCENT. They don't automatically chop over just because they are in their AOR.
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Thanks. That all makes sense now. Plus I knew the 5th fleet was in charge but didn't know how it fit in the bigger picture.
 
KevinB said:
It does in the case of hostilities, or combat operations, then operational controls transfer.

Even very special assets fall under theatre command then. Which makes an absolute mess out of the CoC linkages.
It’s gotten better as there are components sections for each within the theatre commands - but misuse, poor application of assets can still occur.
Click to expand...
Yea I've heard a few stories of Army officers who technically have operational control over naval assets try to micromanage their naval assets and the navy just basically "led them on a tour to some place where they couldn't hurt any body."
 
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