TCBF said:
"If you are trying to tell me that a squadron of 19 tanks that don't get operated except for 2-3 days per month needs a larger maintenance crew than that proposed, I think you're smoking crack."
- I base my opinion on 28 years in Armour, including time as a Troop Leader and Troop Warrant Officer in the 8 Ch (PL) in Germany 1987 - 1992., where there were three 19 - tank Sqns and a 24 Lynx Recce Sqn, plus a 7 Car Lynx Regimental Recce Troop. Other than that, feel free to think what you want.
I apologize in that my "smoking crack" remark was unwarranted and unprofessional.
However, I base my thoughts on my personal experience. 11 years in the armoured community in both the reserve and active/regular side of the house, having served 6 years in the CFs and 5 in the US Marines. I serve in a reserve mech. unit (D Co. 4th LAR Bn.) that maintains its own equipment, deploys with its own equipment and fights with its own equipment.
While my particular unit is LAV centric, the USMC, US Army (National Guard & Reserve), British, Germans, Dutch, Norwegians, Swedes and a pletheroa of other nations also maintain reserve tank units.
TCBF said:
- And every time someone goes to set up training for those soldiers, it gets cancelled because a pack that was on order has come in, and you have to pull guys out of class to help change it, or all of your NCOs who should be training your troops, got tasked to go teach a CLC/whatever, or you can't get resources or trg areas because they were were given to a higher priority tasking. I know their frustrations. I, too, was a Trooper in black coveralls once long ago, and had the distinct displeasure of experiencing an 'interview' with the Troop MCpl when I pointed out that pushing a broom in the hanger was boring, and would it be OK if I joined the Militia so I could at least soldier on nights and weekends? It got real noisy after that, real fast.
This is more a problem that the entire CFs face, not just the RCAC's units.
I don't see how your argument has much relevance on a proposal that has 4-6 reserve crewmen (Tpr/Cpl level) per sqn. on a class B/C contract whose primary tasking is to conduct the crew level maintenance on a sqn. of Leopards so that they're ready for the unit to draw them on training ex's. Will these 4 crewmen be busy? Very much so, but a happy soldier is one who is working his butt off doing his job.
We can't go on complaining about a broken system and how the Army is going down the drain because of civilian leadership.
We've got to be proactive and find real ways to keep the capabilities we have have and expand those that we don't.
What would you do to keep the tank capability alive and well in the Army?
DOOG said:
Matt..
My regt just spent 20 years on Cougars that were usually kept in Gagetown, about 160 kms away. Bringing even a couple of AVGPs down to the Sqn locations a couple of times a year was a real pain, due to the hassle of flat bedding them. Driving was just as bad..they broke.
There are no mechs out there in Militia land to fix them, and getting a maint team from Gagetown (or Wainwright) to load up and head for such and such a place because some piddly arse little widget broke just won't wash.
A tank at an LHQ local would be a monument in about a month. As for using sims at the unit and travelling to the trg centre for tank work..sounds great till ya have to do it every weekend you train. Buses, rats, qtrs requests, requesting trg areas, trying to get recovery on a weekend, etc, etc..
This system worked fairly well for the MTSC in Wainwright who kept a sqn. of AVGPs as a training pool which the armoured units in LFWA would draw for FTXs. It wasn't a very practical system for the BCDs who'd have to fly in from BC, but for units such as the KOCR and SALH it worked.
As far as "Buses, rats, qtrs requests..." This is part and parcel of any military operation or exercise. It doesn't matter if you're using Leopards Iltis' or black cadillacs, you've still got that required administrative stuff to do. Buses would have to be requested, yes. No biggie. Most reserve infantry units are already being bused to training areas for ex's. Rations...well that's a given for any field ex. Quarters request...not an issue as the unit would be in bivouac. Training areas request, yes...which is another given for any FTX. Recovery on a weekend is also another non-issue, because your echelon folks who're fulltime would have an amended work schedule where they'd work that weekend you were training, and get compensating time off during the week.
DOOG said:
Perhaps some combination of Reg and Reserve pers in a unit to hang on to the "tank" skills would be work, but it would have to be a totally different way than what we 've done in the past. A composite Reserve Sqn in Wainwright as part of an OPFOR, with a Reg Force mentor cadre might be the plan. The reservists could come from a number of units and do a 3 or 4 month stint as a muscle head, then rotate back to the home unit (Recce). The Reg Force part of the unit could provide the RHQ, A Sqn and HQ Sqn. This would enable the tank skills to stay alive and spread around the Corps. If we needed an operational Sqn, we would have more than enough soldats between the Reg Force Sqn and the (most current) Reserve guys to get it on the boat. Then you would still have a Cadre left to bring the next Sqn(s) up to snuff for Roto 2.
This is another decent idea that could use some further exploration.
The only downsides I see are that with having a Reg Force mentor cadre, what happens when those "Leopard Gurus" all retire and the only people left using the Leopards are the few reservists who've shuffled in an out of LUVW recce. to do call outs at the CMTC's Leopard/OPFOR sqn.? The Sr. NCOs and officers who would move into the cadre spots would have their experience based on LAV and MGS platforms. In my proposal, 1 reg. force sqn. of Leopards is maintained so that a seed corn at the reg. force level is still maintained. That way you've got reg. force pers. at all levels (Tpr-Maj.) who are versed in the art and science of working with tanks, rather than Sr. NCOs and officers being parachuted into an organization which they're supposed to provide the subject matter expertise, but have no experience on.