Temporary Duty ( TD ) merged

[Navy_Pete]

Thanks for the reference; I get varying answers on whether or not the insurance is covered.  I tend to go with enterprise as their insurance rate I was getting was $5 or $10 per day, which I figured was at least covered under the 'incidentals' so never worried about it.

Does this mean if you do have a department card for a rental there is insurance coverage on the card?

 

[SupersonicMax]

Thanks for the reference; I get varying answers on whether or not the insurance is covered.  I tend to go with enterprise as their insurance rate I was getting was $5 or $10 per day, which I figured was at least covered under the 'incidentals' so never worried about it.

Does this mean if you do have a department card for a rental there is insurance coverage on the card?

HHT and move-related travels are administered with the IRP policy.  In any case (TD or HHT), at least CDW plus any mandatory insurances are reimbursed.  Note that liability insurance and personnal effects insurance are not covered.

I never had issues getting CDW reimbursed.

 

[danteh]

Where can I find the current incidental rates (ie the ~$17 a day for the first 30 days than like $14 per day on ward)? I used to be able to google CF TD incidental rates and it would be like the first one to pop up but I have having a hella hard time finding it now.

 

[kratz]

ref: CFTDI Appendix C

$17.30 per day IAW CFTDI and pre-programed into the Claims-X software the HR Administrators must use.

 

[CountDC]

When did it become a must use?  Didn't see that one anywhere and the DND99 is still available in the forms catalogue.

try this link to NJC for the rates:  https://www.njc-cnm.gc.ca/s3/en

 

[SJBeaton]

When did it become a must use?  Didn't see that one anywhere and the DND99 is still available in the forms catalogue.

try this link to NJC for the rates:  https://www.njc-cnm.gc.ca/s3/en

It's not a "must use". Furthermore, I believe since the trade split, DND 99s and ClaimsX claims/MTECs are a couple of the very few claim types that should be both initiated and finalized by FSA, not HRA.

 

[Sub_Guy]

“Seventy-five percent (75%) of the meal and incidental allowances shall be paid starting on the 31st consecutive calendar day and fifty percent (50%) of the meal allowance on the 121st consecutive calendar day of travel status at the same location when corporate residences or apartment hotels are available to a traveller in the area surrounding the workplace, or when the traveller chooses to stay in private accommodation”

It’s not automatic that the 75% reduction occurs.  If you are in a location that doesn’t have corporate residences or apartment hotels, then you should receive 100% the entire time.

 

[CountDC]

It's not a "must use". Furthermore, I believe since the trade split, DND 99s and ClaimsX claims/MTECs are a couple of the very few claim types that should be both initiated and finalized by FSA, not HRA.

Not quite.  Claims are mainly FSA now, HRA has little to do with them.

 

[Mongo007]

Hello everyone,

I will be going on TD and the start date in on a Tuesday. I will need to travel just over 1200KM and I will be requesting to use my PMV.

According to the CFTDTI 7.41(5) "5.(Paid Leave) A member who requests to use a PMV - rather than the more economical and practical mode of transportation selected by the approving authority - and who uses that PMV on duty travel shall take one day’s paid leave, after the first day, for every 500 kilometres travelled. "

My first question is does this mean that 7.41(5) does not require me to take a paid day of leave for the first day of travel but any following days would require paid leave. 1200 KM would require 3 days of travel so would I get the first day as a travel day and then require 2 days of annual for the remaining 2 days?

My second question is that I will be leaving on a Saturday to make it for a Tuesday course. My first travel day is on a weekend will I be able to move that first travel day to the Monday so I would not have to take a day of leave?

Thanks for your help.

 

[CountDC]

short answer - no.  As you quoted - shall take one day's paid leave, after the first day. 

You have to have at least one day of paid leave.

 

[Pusser]

I disagree.  Keep in mind that weekend and short leave is "paid leave."  If the first day of travel is a "duty" day, it is perfectly legitimate to consider the Monday a short day.  Hence, no annual leave need be expended.

 

[CountDC]

Weekend is not leave, it is schedule days off.

Feel free to disagree with the Ottawa gods as that is the policy they have pushed out and have done so since 2012.  Even now on their CFTDI Faq they refer to annual:

I am currently posted to Vancouver, can I take my PMV if I need to go to Borden on course even if they are 4,296 Km apart?
Maybe. You will need to sign both the Annex A Member Request To Use PMV Acknowledgment of Limitations for the PMV Waiver and the DCBA waiver and cost comparison worksheet when your intent is to request use of your PMV rather than a more economical and practical mode of transportation. You will be entitled to only the first day of travel to the destination (500 kilometres) and only for the first day of travel of return travel (500 kilometres) kilometric rate for the direct road and this would include any distance traveled by ferry. You will also be required to utilize sufficient paid leave for each additional day of travel over 500 kilometres (duty travel day). In the interest of safe driving, you are required to take 8 paid leave days each way, in addition to the one day of duty travel each way. If you don't have sufficient annual leave remaining, the CO has no choice but to deny PMV travel, in favour of the most economical and practical method of transportation (in this case, commercial air travel). PMV is not considered the most economical and practical method of transportation, except where the CO requests the use of PMV, IAW the CFTDTI.
NOTE: The Crown accepts no responsibility or liability to the member for, the loss of or damage to a PMV on duty travel and deductible insurance payments in respect of a PMV used on duty travel. As such, a member cannot be ordered and is never obliged to use a PMV for duty travel.
Refs: CFTDTI 4.12, CFTDTI 7.40 & CFTDTI 7.41 Acknowledge of limitation (Annex A waiver) and cost comparison worksheet

and in email from C Army DLPM/G1 Jul 2012

It should also be noted that the type of leave to be utilized is annual leave even if the travel occurs on a weekend.

One of the problems is that the leave manual itself does not have a definition for paid leave and the CFTDI only refers to paid leave.  They need to amend something to make it clear what they are referring to.  Why say paid leave in the instruction if you mean annual.  They have had 5 years to correct this and are aware of the issue as people have been asking since the instruction came out.  Think they would get tired of answering the same question over and over and actually fix the wording so people don't have to ask.  Too easy to specify types of leave clearly.   

 

[Pusser]

I would argue that an email from C Army DLPM/G1 does not constitute a proper authority in this case.  It's essentially reading something into a policy that isn't there.  It may be what somebody thinks it should be, but that's not what the CFTDI says.

Paid leave is simply leave when the member is being paid and includes just about all types of leave, except leave without pay.  The CFTDI describes it this way in order to avoid having to list the multitude of different forms of paid leave.  To insist on annual leave in this case is ridiculous.  I interpret the line about having sufficient annual leave remaining is to cover those periods for which there are no other forms of paid leave available.  If after all other legitimate forms of leave have been taken and the member still requires annual leave to cover the portion remaining and he doesn't have it, then he may be SOL.

In a more precise example, if a member is required to report for duty on 2 Jan 18 and he requires nine days to drive the distance (as per the max daily driving allowance) then (assuming the first day is duty), his eight days of paid leave could legitimately accounted for as follows:

25-26 Dec 17 - 2 days Stat
27-28 Dec 17 - 2 days Special (everybody gets that)
29 Dec 17 - 1 day short (the current practice is that everybody gets that as well)
30-31 Dec 17 - 2 days Weekend
1 Jan 18 - 1 day Stat

This all adds up to eight days of paid leave, not one of them being Annual Leave, and IAW the CFTDI, acceptable. 

On a similar note, this issue has come up from time to time with respect to other benefits that also require "paid leave" to be utilized and in each case, the ruling that came back was that paid leave included any type of leave where the member was being paid and was certainly not restricted to annual leave.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Weekend leave is not paid leave?  I am pretty sure I have *X* amount of weekend leave days on my Xmas leave pass...or my summer one.

Here's what I think;  the policy that states PAID LEAVE was written exactly as that, and people were using weekend leave, or getting short leave etc to cover duty travel on weekend days because that it what the policy was intended for; paid leave including but not limited to Ann Leave.  Then some fucksticks got into the fold and decided PAID LEAVE must mean ANNUAL LEAVE, because god forbid if mbr's actually wanted to take their PMV with them on a long course or something, so let's make this as much of an asspain as possible.    ;D

I've used and know others who've used Weekend or Short leave travelling with their PMV. 

Worst case scenario, don't ask for any cash, tell them you don't need service travel to the location (its only 1300km) and that you will report as specified in your JIs, take Monday as an Annual and Sat/Sun as weekend.  Voila. 

Be interesting to see what the EMGRC would make of this PAID LEAVE discussion WRT to travel.

 

[SupersonicMax]

1.1.19 Paid Service

Paid Service means all service except:

periods of Leave Without Pay and Allowances (LWOP) other than LWOP for maternity and parental purposes;
periods when a Primary Reserve reservist has an Exemption From Duty and Training (ED&T) other than ED&T for maternity or parental purposes;
periods when a Primary Reserve reservist is Non Effective Strength (NES);
service for which a limitation of Payments (LOP) has been imposed under QR&O 203.20, Regular Force - Limitation of Payments; or
periods for which forfeiture has been imposed under QR&O 208.30, Forfeitures - Officers and Non-Commissioned Members, or QR&O 208.31, Forfeitures, Deductions and Cancellations -When No Service Rendered.

Leave taken outside of those are, by my interpretation, paid leave as it would be paid service.  This incluses weekends.

Turns out weekend leave doesn't exists so you cannot travel on a cost comparison during weekends, unless it is a Short day.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Weekend Leave doesn't exist.  How do I have Weekend Leave days x 6 for Christmas Leave this year then?  When I am off for 2 weeks in the summer...the days between my Annual Days are always...Weekend Leave.

???

http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/caf-community-benefits/leave-policy.page#chap2

2.1.04 Weekends and Holidays

Weekends and Holidays are included on Form CF 100 when they form part of a leave period in conjunction with other types of leave that are reckoned in working days.

Section 2.2 Reckoning Time
2.2.01 Reckoning time
Except in the case of short leave, leave begins at 0000 hours on the commencement date and ends at 2400 hours on the last day of leave.
Weekends, designated and other holidays (listed in Annex A of this chapter), or in the case of shift workers’ scheduled non-working days (designated as weekends on the CF 100), shall not be charged against any leave that is granted in working days; although, such days will normally form part of the leave period.

If I am Reg Force, and I am not 'on duty' for a weekend, and have other leave, the CF100 shows weekend leave days.  I've never seen it done otherwise OR I'd need two separate leave passes for my summer block leave.  As it stands, I always have 6 x Weekend days on my LEAVE PASS.  Days on a leave pass are 'leave days' are they not?  So weekend leave days would be paid leave.

:dunno:

 

[SupersonicMax]

Leave is defined in the QR&Os

http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-policies-standards-queens-regulations-orders-vol-01/ch-16.page

Noticed that weekend isn't there.

Your quote doesn't define that weekend is leave.  It says that IF weekend is part of the leave period to include the weekend on the leave pass.

 

[CountDC]

beat to it.  Weekend is just that, showing it on the leave pass enables you to show the entire period you are off.  It also has the benefit that as it is on your leave pass then the only one that could call you in during the period is the CO as it is now part of your approved leave period.  Same with stats - they are not leave.

Your arguments are with the policy gods in Ottawa.  Both offices I have quoted are there.  I also attended two briefings in 2012 that were held by DCBA in which they also stated it had to be annual leave.  There have been other emails on the subject over the years that all have stated the same things and were issued as policy clarifications. 

That is why I stated they need to better clarify what is paid leave as there really isn't anything that specifically addresses it and since the CFTDI was issued it has been an ongoing problem.  Shouldn't be that hard to add a definition in there or if they actually mean annual then change the word paid to annual.  Shouldn't have to search through numerous different pubs or policy ruling to get such a simple thing that could and should be built in.

 

[SupersonicMax]

I am pretty sure that Special or Short is indeed paid leave as well.

 

[Sub_Guy]

If it’s annual leave then they need to make the change to reflect that.

Paid leave is ******* simple.  It is all types of leave with the exception of LWOP.

We don’t need a dentition for something that requires a basic amount of common sense.

Personally I am fed up with orderly rooms interpreting rules and regs when 99% of the time they are clear.

Why the frig would someone have to take an annual?  It is because some ******* wrongly interpreted the rule years ago?  Is it to make the process so unfavourable to the member that they will most likely never choose to take their PMV?