MilCOTS GMC Silverado (Iltis replacement for the PRes)

[Gilligan]

From what I've been told, only the primary reserves are getting the milcots (silverado).   As a comms unit out west, we have radio config'd milcots, and soon a line config'd one.

As for the comment about Humvees being better than Lltis, obviously you've never driven one overseas....Lltis won't get blown up by roadside mines, as that is a possibility with the Humvee.   The Humvee hangs over the sides of the small Bosnian roads, which poses a major problem.   The little Lltis scoots right down the center, no problem whatsoever.   Sure, the Humvee does have some advantages, however the ones that save time and your life are what are important.

Overall, I'm not impressed with the milcots, as stated in another post, they aren't deployable overseas, you can barely deploy them in your own training area, especially if you have no hardpack.  DND got a 5 year warranty on them, and if you get them stuck offroad, you're up s*** creek without a paddle, so to speak.  I got a milcot stuck out in Petawawa, and we had to wait for recovery to come find us and pull us out, at which point we were instructed that policy on the vehicles is to call GM, and have them come and tow you out.  Of course, if you've taken her off hardpack and gotten 'er stuck, you're SOL, because the warranty is void, and any damage is on DND.  It's bad enough the reserves get the leftovers, now we have a chance to really get somewhere with a vehicle that will help us, the the gov't stiffs us again.....by spending more money than on the regs trucks.....make sense to anyone? hardly

 

[Kirkhill]

Hey Gilligan, does it come equipped with ONSTAR? ;D

 

[Gilligan]

HAHAHAHA

   Don't even get me started, the clock isn't even a clock.   IF you want a clock, you have to reset it every time you get in the darn thing, as it has a power switch, which resets the vehicle every time you turn it on or off.   Although, I will tell you, the A/C is a godsend when it's 40 degrees in the middle of summer in Petawawa!   I will add as well, that the seats are relatively comfortable, but careful with your rifles, as you will scrape away the civy toneau (sp?) cover!   Oh, and as one of the guys learned, don't sit on the hood....it's literally a civy truck painted matte green....it crumples like a piece of paper.

 Oh, and heaven forbid you ever roll the thing....no roll bar, like I said....CRUMPLE LIKE A PIECE OF PAPER!  

 

[Gunnerlove]

The clock problem was only a problem for myself for a few days.

Now the constant hot is.

 

[Canuck_25]

I have a question.

Why dosnt the army consider the Land Rover Defender? Cheap on gas, V8 deisel, and it's used by the British and American armies.

 

[Kirkhill]

Land Rover declined to offer a proposal in the LUVW competition.  Along with everybody else under consideration except Mercedes.

 

[Thompson_JM]

That's easy enough to do - just loan it out to 300 different users, half of whom drive that particular vehicle type only once every two months, and have them treat it as if it doesn't belong to them, or that whatever they break will be fixed by the taxpayers.  

All I can Say in response to that Michael....

Touche'  ;D

One of the many Pet Peeve of mine is the all too common "Its not my truck" attitude. Its far too common in some places and within some people in the Reserves... Mind you we are finding that even when you baby a MILCOT it'll still break.

personally the only SMP MSE that ive driven that I truly Love is the HLVW its the only truck ive found that is comfortable, durable, and reliable..
the MLVW just does the last two. Mind you, with all the cold weather Kit on, you really dont feel the cold when youre in the ML....

 

[Gilligan]

Maybe you'll agree with me, maybe you won't, but I don't think it would really matter what vehicle they chose....it's what they do with it afterwards to adapt it to military use.  No civy vehicle can be taken off the street and put offroad for military use, it will break.  Which is what I've found is the problem with the milcot.  It's decent on fuel, lots of room, so far I have yet to need more space for cargo, but it's the exterior modifications where this vehicle lacks.  It just isn't adequate, the Lltis, you could take it offroad anywhere, and if you hit a bump, it would just keep on going like nothing happened, but with the milcot, it bottoms out every time.  Maybe if they raised it, maybe maybe maybe, what if what if what if.  You could debate that all day, but at the end of the day, the gov't spent too much on inadequacies.

 

[Steel Badger]

the milcot is the Army's Griffon.

A non-rugged civvy item painted green....


Alex, I'll take the land Rover Defender please.

 

[Gilligan]

  Imagine a world where the government actually sits down with the members WHO ACTUALLY DRIVE THESE VEHICLES and asks them what it is they require......wishful thinking obviously.

 

[Thompson_JM]

well it seems as if the lift kit would solve alot of the problems of off road use, however they govt doesnt want to take them off road and void the warranty.... 

also, my theory is that they reasoned, "why buy an off road lift kit for a truck that will never be deployed on anything but a training ex?"

not the greatest reasoning, but when you look at it from strictly a monetary perspective it does make some sense.

Cheers

 

[mudgunner105]

If they placed a lIft Kit on the Milcots they would be so much better as well as if they had some decent off road tires that might have solved the problem but you still have to remember they are a reserve vehicles.  for the purpose they are a decent vehile but like everything it has it flaws.

UBIQUE 

 

[Thompson_JM]

If they placed a lIft Kit on the Milcots they would be so much better as well as if they had some decent off road tires that might have solved the problem but you still have to remember they are a reserve vehicles.    for the purpose they are a decent vehile but like everything it has it flaws.

UBIQUE  

yes.. thank you for echoing exactly what i said.  :blotto:

 

[childs56]

Yes the Milcot is wonderfull isnt it (not the sarcasm). I havent used one myself, i have driven a 2003 Chevy Duramax up when the forest fires were going on. Lets say the LSVW i was given later on was much better for the off road task. Like has been posted earlier it is a great vehicle to go from point a to point b,on hard pack, but once you get to point b and have to switch to 4 wheel drive it is one of the worst vehicle out their. The Chevy's frame hangs down so it almost touches the ground in stock form. The Dodge or Ford at least have their frames off the ground. The fact that these trucks have a very soft sespension is another fault of the Chevy, yes very comfortable ride on the highway, once you go offroad it cannot handle all the wash boards and other pot hole and ruts encounterd. I own a 03 Dodge Diesel, and it drives the loggnig roads pretty well, once you go off the hard pack it is another ball park, all of these pickup trucks are to heavy for the foot print they impose on the ground around them that they just sink in to the mud or other soft ground. My turck has plenty of clearance but thet means nothing if the truck is to heavy for the ground it is used in.  I think it is funny that the military bought a vehicle that is to be used on road only when the majority of our vehicle usage with the iltus it replaced was off road. As for voiding warrenty, i think the CF got shafted. The logging companys out west use their trucks, (mainly fords) off road every day and they still get dealer warrenty work done when a component breaks. So why woudnt DND of gotten teh same deal. Real good question. that we cant answer. I think the original agreement was that these truck would not be driven down tank tracks and bashed up, jumped and stuff like we seem to do with everything else we own in the CF. The fact that we are hardon our vehicle is big cause of lack of driver expierance off road. I now some of you guys are going to say ya right, i will say both regs and reserves do not have enough time off roading to be able to get them selve out of a situation that we all seem to get into. The best way to have gotten out is to not have gotten into it in the first place. The peddle to the metal driveng that is all to common in the military, usually breaks stuff and or gets us stuck. The military needs to run a course in off roading, And teach the members what the capiblity of each one of the vehicle is. A waste of money no, a good way to maintain safe operation of the vehicle itself yes. The fact that we have the Chevy means that members will have to adopt the driving habits themselve. Sometimes that might mean you have to slow down and go slow, or even find another route.  The golden rule is if it looks like you might get stuck, you probely will.
this is my 2 cents worth.

 

[Maclimius]

After having used the MILCOTS for the duration of my unit's recce conversion, I have a few comments on its performance.

The skid plate works well. (For pulling it forward on snow out of a ditch with an LSVW, not backward to rip the skid plate off along with the rest of the undercarriage)

Visibility is great (If you're looking for contacts in the trees vs in the ditch 10 feet to your right)

Radios are in a pertinent place (Even better if you take out the CI and put a roll of gun tape in for your Timmy's cup)

The Weapons mounts are well placed (Unless you'd rather have an arm rest)

The rear seats allow good kit storage (God forbid you should try sitting on them while wearing Goretex)

The batteries last long (If you have the new mod in, or the old one that trickle drains randomly)

It has a good turning radius (For doing 20 point turns on a logging road on the side of a cliff)

Ok, all kidding aside now.

As was discussed before, this vehicle is meant as an adm vehicle (just like the ILTIS was supposed to be). As an adm vehicle it does actually perform its job quite well. You can fit an entire excercise's worth of rations for a recce troop for a weekend in the back of just one. That's a definate bonus over the ILTIS.

 

[WOLO]

I would have to beg to differ on this Admin veh terminology that has been assigned to the MilCot. If you read the SOR( statement of requirements) for the Milcot it should be almost as capable as the Iltis.  I can offer reasons why this particular veh was acquired but they are not guaranteed fact. A lot of them are second hand that have been confirmed from separate sources.  As for the warranty being voided by cross country that is a lot of paranoia floating around the upper echelon. As long as the veh isn't flagrantly abused it should be good, Sure, it was not built to be a pure off road veh like the LSVW or Iltis, but when you look at the off road milage in comparison to the on road milage, it certainly falls into the occasional off road usage class.

 

[TCBF]

I just read through the above thread, and as the campaign season is just about upon us, I want you all to do one thing if you sign for a Milverado:  Read the data plate that lists the Curb Weight and the GVW.

The last one I was in had this on the plate: GVW: Front: 2120, Rear: 1610, Total GVW: 3730
                                                            Curb: Front: 1998, Rear:  1403, Total Curb: 3401

The difference between GVW and  Curb is the capacity, which is in this case, 329kg.

As a comparison, my 1993 Honda Civic has a capacity of 395 kg, or 850 pounds.

So, if you load it up with a dual Ticks, four soldiers, rifles, webbing, rucks, kitbags, cots, a tent, the usual tools, and then some "cargo"...  you just might sail through a stop sign and murder somebody.

With a dual Ticks, EIS tools, Tent/stove/lantern, me/helmet/binos/ear defenders/jacket, but NO: webbing, ruck or other kit or Pax, I weighed a Milverado on the Hwy 14 scales 2 miles east of Wainwright.  I was 70 kg under GVW.  If I wanted to carry more, I would have needed my Civic...

Do NOT excede the GVW!

Tom

 

[Zipper]

So if these things are only to be used in mild off road, whats the point?

We used to beat the living Sh!t out of the iltis on exercise. In fact when I was made OC rover (taken out of the sabre and put in SHQ :crybaby
I would have to drive the thing full tilt after the man and pick him up in the middle of butt F nowhere at all times of the day. This took a hell of a toll on the thing (and me) and it had to be replaced twice.

As well, we used to take the ol' pick-ups cross country because the SSM would choose some of the most horrid ground to carry out a replenishment, or as a temporary hide. I seem to remember a few rain soaked ex's having to get a cougar (and later the Bison) in to tow the poor things out.

They take a beating no matter what anyone at HQ says. So you may as well kiss that warranty goodbye.

 

[TCBF]

It isn't just a warranty issue.  When you exceed the GVW, you are exceeding the safety parameters of the vehicle to the point where the handling and brakes may be pushing the envelope.  It then becomes a liability issue when someone dies.

Tom

 

[Zipper]

Oh sorry. no argument there. You CANNOT exceed the GVW if your smart. I'm just refering to earlier parts of the conversation about how well there going to operate in the field for us, or whether they will be another lemon.