Logistics Officer - Sea [Merged]

[Jolly Roger]

Great post Pusser.

You will have to pass the basic swim test on Basic Training

You do not have to pass the swim test in Basic to proceed on  to your next phase of training. You will be given extra lessons to try and meet the standard if you fail, but even if you still couldn't pass the BMSS, you could still proceed to NETPO.

 

[Lex Parsimoniae]

Great post Pusser.

  Concur - great explanation.  Most of the explanation could equally apply to NTO training.

 

[nick_the_guy]

Wow, thanks for the great informative reply, Pusser. That really whetted my appetite for the role and has helped me understand how the career progression works. I'm a bit surprised at the time at sea though - I was under the impression that most of the time would be on board a ship. If I understand it correctly, after doing an initial tour as an Assistant Supply Officer, it's possible that you would never work on a ship again?

On a related note, I got a reply from my recruiter clarifying the VIE. Initially, he said it was 9 years but when I asked again, he said it was 6 years plus he gave me a list of other VIE's. I thought I'd post them in case someone is searching for this kind of information.

Air Combat Systems Officer, 6 years;
Aerospace Control Officer, 6 years;
Aerospace Engineering Officer, 6years;
Dental Officer, 6 years;
Pharmacy Officer, 4 years;
Nursing Officer, 6 years;
Medical Officer, 5 years;
Bioscience Officer, 6 years;
Social Worker Officer, 6 Years;
Chaplain, 6 years;
Logistics Officer, 6 years;
Public Affairs Officer, 6 years;
Legal Officer, 4 years;
Maritime Surface and Subsurface Officer, 8 years;
Personnel Selection Officer, 6 years;
Communications and Eletronics Engineering Officer, 6 years;
Naval Combat Systems Engineer, 6 years;
Marine Systems Engineer, 6 years; and
Training Developmental Officer, 6 years.

 

[gcclarke]

And if anyone is looking for the actual reference from whence those numbers were derived, for future updates as well as a full list of all occupations, it is currently outlined in ADM(HR-MIL) INSTRUCTION 05/05 ANNEX A Appendix 1.

 

[Pusser]

It's possible that you could never get another sea tour after being the Assistant Supply Officer, but the normal expectation is that those who want them should be able to getat least one Head of Department tour (two years).

Back to the VIE, remember that there is a diffence between that and obligatory service.  A VIE of "X" number of years does not mean you can't get out before then, it just means that you will miss out on certain benefits if you do.

 

[chappyk]

I was wondering what type of degree one would need to become an Navy Logistics Officer?

 

[ModlrMike]

In principle, any degree. In practice you'll probably gain an advantage from commerce, human resources, management, or public administration. There's probably a couple of others, but I've forgotten what they are just now.

 

[PMedMoe]

According to the CF website:

A variety of baccalaureate degree programs are acceptable for entry into this military occupation. However, a degree in one of the following fields is preferred: Business or Public Administration, Commerce, Accounting, Finance, Economics, Transportation Management, Food Services/Hotel/ Resort/Hospitality and Tourism Management/ Administration or Nutrition, Industrial Relations, Human Resources Management, or Supply Chain Management.

 

[richp]

    As the poster before me said it does not matter what degree you achieve, but a degree related to your trade would be advantageous to you.

 

[mathabos]

Deebs,

Accounting within the military in my opinion would be geared more towards a CMA designation, as it more commonly involves management applications of accounting vice the audit nature (at first anyway) of what you would see in the CA world. The type of experience you would get in the military in an accounting setting would allow you to work towards a CGA or a CMA, not a CA.

In May I will be finishing my degree in accounting and finishing Rotp. I would like to be accredited as a CGA. I am hopeful that I will be able to complete the requirements for the work portion of the CGA certification within the LOG position.

I know that I will need to apply for subsidization for the post-bachelor portion of the CGA requirement. However, I am missing 3 or 4 key courses that are needed to start the CGA program. I must take these courses outside my degree.

Would I be able to extend my Rotp subsidization for an extra semester to complete these requirements or should I do them on my own ?

 

[ballz]

In May I will be finishing my degree in accounting and finishing Rotp. I would like to be accredited as a CGA. I am hopeful that I will be able to complete the requirements for the work portion of the CGA certification within the LOG position.

I know that I will need to apply for subsidization for the post-bachelor portion of the CGA requirement. However, I am missing 3 or 4 key courses that are needed to start the CGA program. I must take these courses outside my degree.

Would I be able to extend my Rotp subsidization for an extra semester to complete these requirements or should I do them on my own ?

The best person to ask is of course your SEM, however, the answer to my question for you may give you a pretty good idea of what his answer will be.


Once you've completed your degree in May, will that be 4 years of subsidized education? If so, don't get yor hopes up. The goal for the SEM is to get you through school and your phase training as quickly as possible so that you can be employed and useful to the CF. From what I've seen if you have something you can do that doesn't delay your graduation, or delay you phase training, the SEM is generally pretty supportive. If it does delay one of those two, it's usually a pretty blunt "no."

Since you're finished in May, and I assume that means you've completed BMOQ, as you know you'll be commissioned as a 2Lt. Since you've got 4 Phases of training to complete in total, I'm assuming you've got at least 1 phase of training left... so... most likely no.

But it's worth asking your SEM. If you can find a viable alternative for him that is a benefit to the CF, mine is pretty supportive.

 

[mathabos]

Thank you for the response Ballz.

I will definitely have to talk to the SEM sometime soon.
I will have had only 1 year of subsidization in the ROTP program when I graduate. I have
not done BMOQ yet.
I will need do some additional research regarding the program so I can offer some sort of alternative.

 

[Pusser]

It doesn't really matter how much you were subsidized.  People often fail to realize or seem to forget that ROTP exists for the purpose of acquiring officers for the CF.  It is not a "feel good" program, nor is it designed to increase the overall education of the populace.  If you're looking for a subsidized education with fewer strings attached, there are plenty of grants, subsidies and loans available from other agencies.  The whole training and career management system at this point is geared to getting you trained as quickly as possible and getting out there and giving back to the CF.  So, unless you win a Rhodes Scholarship or something of similar stature, it is very unlikely that you will be allowed to postpone the next phase of your training.

Having said this, it is highly likely that you will be able to complete the courses you require on your own (although probably not while on phase training) and the CF will likely reimburse you for them.  Your CF work experience should count toward the time requirements needed to get your designation.  The CF and the Logistics Branch in particular are very keen on having logistics officers acquire accounting designations (they will give you big potential points on annual evaluations), so you will be supported, but you pretty much have to do it on our terms.

Finally, do you really want to extend your ROTP.  2Lts are paid much better.

 

[Rockgollem]

Hello.

I'm considering (most likely will be) going as a Log O (Reg.).

I've searched up about Log O on the forces website and any bits of information I can gather anywhere else.

Feeling that vague information given out by the recruitment site and itty bits I picked up elsewhere, I would like to find more about Land and Sea Log O on various aspects. (Sorry, Air Log.)

There will be alot of questions, but I hope one or more person can help me out with these various inquiries I would be making.

1)What are some of the specializations/sub-field that can be purused in as either Sea or Land Log O?

2) I've seen that if one becomes a Sea Log O, one can also participate in leading "sub-jobs" or so to speak in areas such as,  Damage Control, Fire Fighting, CBRN, boarding party or diver and so on. Would a Land Log O have something similar to this, or is it unique to the Sea element?

3) What are the basic essential skills that are taught in the trainings for Log O? (Other than you learn how to do the obvious. Details would be good, but if you can't, some general ideas would be good.) Also what are the length of each phase? (Starting from Phase II)

4) Would switching from Sea Log to Land Log or vice versa treated and processed similar to switching trade?

5) Is the job of Log O particularly hard to get in? How's the job prospect in recent years?

6) Would being a Log O limit one's chance of going on overseas deployment? And if a Log O goes overseas, would he/she be expected to stay a Log O doing solely that job, or is there some other oppertunities?

7) I am not a political-career obsessed mind person, but would being a Log O hinder one's promotion and command eligiblity? (especially as one gets up to high senior rank and start approaching flag ranks) I am planning a long term career in CF and I'm not particularly keen on trade that will keep me only at certain rank. (Be it true or not, I don't know, but I belive I saw somewhere about someone switching trade because it had no future or so to speak of)

8) What is the daily life of a Log O in Land and Sea like?

9) What might be helpful information about Log O that may be important or worth some extra points in the interview?

10) Any helpful tips/hints/warnings/so forth?

* To briefly explain my current state, I am applying for ROTP - RMC. I put forth Armour. Failed required vision category. I have two realistic choice of either Log O or MARS left. Decided Log O had priority over MARS. If anyone begs to differ, I want to hear great things about MARS as well. Anyways, I only have interview left and it was a sudden shock for me. And then, here I am.

* Sorry for asking this on you guys. I would have asked the folks down at the recruiting centre, but all they could say was generic, generic and once again, generic answers.

*Little bit of OT, but who are the people wearing cowboy hat/Austrailian ranger hat in the naval ship?

 

[Journeyman]

To get a sense of Army Log operations in Afghanistan, I suggest picking up Lieutenant-Colonel John Conrad's What the Thunder Said: Reflections of a Canadian Officer in Kandahar.

Also note the comments on that book (positive and negative -- particularly valuable, I believe, are the thoughts posted by dapaterson and Old Sweat), here.

 

[lethalLemon]

*Little bit of OT, but who are the people wearing cowboy hat/Austrailian ranger hat in the naval ship?

That would be the crew of HMCS CALGARY. Rather than traditional Naval headdress, they adorn the White Stetson hat, a famous symbol of Calgary and the Calgary Stampede. It is only worn with their "Whites" (I don't know the Navy way of uniforms so... that's as far as I know haha  )

 

[Rockgollem]

Journeyman - Well that more or less answers one of the questions. (Which was on relatively important scale) I probably will pick that book up at earliest oppertunity possibly (which can range to couple weeks depending if local stores have it in stock.) I am sure that book will be a rich source of information! Thank you once again for the valuable piece of information, mate.

LethalLemon- So that's what it was. If I ever do go Sea Log, I should try getting a posting on HMCS Calgary just to get some of that, or so to speak. Thank you for an interesting bit of info.



As for other questions, I guess I'll have to wait and see if anyonewould come help me out on those. (I suppose I was expecting too much on just one day?)

 

[Neill McKay]

You may find this book worth a read:

http://www.journal.forces.gc.ca/vo6/no1/br-cl-01-eng.asp

7) I am not a political-career obsessed mind person, but would being a Log O hinder one's promotion and command eligiblity?

You won't command a ship as a Log O, but it may be possible to get command of various shore establishments.

In the Naval Reserve world, the first Log O to command a Naval Reserve unit was appointed something like five to seven years ago in HMCS BRUNSWICKER (in Saint John).

 

[Journeyman]

.....it may be possible to get command of various shore establishments.

At one point in our dark history we had a Loggie commanding the entire Army. I don't imagine we'll see an aberration like that again any time soon though. 

 

[Wookilar]

I can't answer all of your questions, but I can offer what I know.

1)What are some of the specializations/sub-field that can be purused in as either Sea or Land Log O?

Initial Log Specialties are: Transport; Pay Accounting; Supply; Human Resources; and, Food Services.
Advanced Training: Movements; Supply Chain Management; Fin Management; Unit Supply Officer, and a few other advanced Log training that is not Element specific.

2) I've seen that if one becomes a Sea Log O, one can also participate in leading "sub-jobs" or so to speak in areas such as,  Damage Control, Fire Fighting, CBRN, boarding party or diver and so on. Would a Land Log O have something similar to this, or is it unique to the Sea element?

The secondary duties you can have as a Land Log O will not, generally speaking, be as exciting as Boarding Party or Damage Control. I have been a Platoon Commander for an  Auxillary Base Defence Force (not nearly as fun as it sounds), numerous Fin type duties (museum, United Way, etc) and anything else your Chain of Command can imagine. In a 1st line unit where you are the only Log O, it is amazing what people consider a Log function.

3) What are the basic essential skills that are taught in the trainings for Log O? (Other than you learn how to do the obvious. Details would be good, but if you can't, some general ideas would be good.) Also what are the length of each phase? (Starting from Phase II)

Ph2: 10 weeks Common Army Phase (CAP). The most physically demanding course I have done in almost 20 years. That being said, not difficult in scope (it should be, but it's not) or content. Just hard work.
Ph3: 8 weeks (Maybe 10, it's a bit fuzzy) Log Officer Common Course (LOCC). Staff work, staff work, oh and some more staff work. Basic paperwork skills and how things work in the CF. Mine was the 1st new course to run, we had many very long days. You can fail this course.
Specialty Training: 4-6 weeks. Your initial trades training. I did Tn, excellent course: convoy drills, movements, safety, haz mat, etc.
Ph4: 8 weeks (maybe 10 now) Element Specific. I can only comment on the Army side. You learn how the Army is theoretically organized and how units work. You do some actual Command Post exercises along with vehicle movement/convoy drills avec enemy force, etc.
Overall impressions: CAP sucks, Ph3 sucks, Specialty training can be a good go, Ph4 was good training.

4) Would switching from Sea Log to Land Log or vice versa treated and processed similar to switching trade?

Yes, but the specialty course for Sea Log are different than the specialty courses given to Army pers. Army usually get Pay, Supply or Tn; Sea Log get Pay and usually Supply. The Chairforce gets HR.

6) Would being a Log O limit one's chance of going on overseas deployment? And if a Log O goes overseas, would he/she be expected to stay a Log O doing solely that job, or is there some other oppertunities?

There are more Log O's on major deployments than you can shake a stick at. We're everywhere and you will most likely be fulfilling your Log function overseas, but some Staff type postions are opening up for us.

7) I am not a political-career obsessed mind person, but would being a Log O hinder one's promotion and command eligiblity? (especially as one gets up to high senior rank and start approaching flag ranks) I am planning a long term career in CF and I'm not particularly keen on trade that will keep me only at certain rank. (Be it true or not, I don't know, but I belive I saw somewhere about someone switching trade because it had no future or so to speak of)

We have Log O's of all rank levels and many many senior officers.

8) What is the daily life of a Log O in Land and Sea like?

Office job, either way. My curent position, unit PT at 0645, normal lunch, home anywhere from 1600-1800, depending on workload/time of year (end year is my busy time). Oh, and Officer's Coffee every Wed morning at the mess. You can end up locked to your computer all day if you let yourself, make sure you physically go talk to people instead of relying on email and phones.

9) What might be helpful information about Log O that may be important or worth some extra points in the interview?

I really don't know, but my  :2c:: You need to have some organizational skills and not be worried about "normal" working hours. Flexibility is also required. In a given day I'm sorting out insulated safety boots, weapons servicing issues with Maintenance Coy, budget updates for the Commanding Officer, procurement of a multi-million $ contract through Public Works, and dealing with Military Police reports on stolen kit.

10) Any helpful tips/hints/warnings/so forth?

I really enjoy my job. If you are looking for consistency and a steady rate of work, look elsewhere. It gets fast and furious somedays, and you are supposed to know how it all works (because the Combat Arms types have no idea how we do the voodoo that we do).[/quote]

No offence to the Combat Arms types, we all know how much attention you give us G4 types  ;D (see LCol Conrad's book for further explanation if required).

Wook

edit: That blue was horrible! That's what you get for hitting "post" before "preview."