Logistics Officer - Sea [Merged]

[krustyrl]

Wook, appreciate the read but the blue is murder on an old fellers peepers.     

 

[MJP]

Wook, appreciate the read but the blue is murder on an old fellers peepers.     

aye I had to highlight it just to read through it.  Other than that great info dude!

 

[Pusser]

Since Wookilar has given you the army perspective, I'll give you a naval one:

1)What are some of the specializations/sub-field that can be purused in as either Sea or Land Log O?

Wookilar pretty much answered that one, but I will add that Ammunition Technical Officer (ATO) is a sub-specialty of Logistics (Ammunition Technition is a Log trade).  ATOs manage the handling, storage, transportation, maintenance and disposal of ammunition and explosives.  This includes EOD and IEDD, but the reality is that the Engineers and Clearance Divers get to do most of that.  The Logistics Branch is big on post-graduate degrees (usually MBA) and accounting designations for its officers and actively encourages pursuit of these (funding is generally available for full and part-time study)

2) I've seen that if one becomes a Sea Log O, one can also participate in leading "sub-jobs" or so to speak in areas such as,  Damage Control, Fire Fighting, CBRN, boarding party or diver and so on. Would a Land Log O have something similar to this, or is it unique to the Sea element?

All sailors need to be qualified in damage control, firefighting and CBRN.  There are no passengers in ships and no "rear for the gear."  Sea Log officers are just as close to action as everybody else on board.  Generally, the ship's Log O is in charge of the Manning Pool for Action/Emergency Stations.  In the past, this basically meant that he/she controlled the dispatch of otherwise unnassigned personnel to Section Bases (the points from where fires/floods are actually fought) as required.  However, now the trend is more that of using the Manning Pool as another Section Base, so the Log O is actually in charge of fighting fires/floods as coordinated by HQ1.  The Log O is also the Monitoring Officer for CBRN, so you will receive advanced training and practice on that stuff.

3) What are the basic essential skills that are taught in the trainings for Log O? (Other than you learn how to do the obvious. Details would be good, but if you can't, some general ideas would be good.) Also what are the length of each phase? (Starting from Phase II).

I've been out of training for quite awhile, so I can't comment specifically on the phases of training other than to say that initially you will train with everybody, but eventually everybody splits off by environment.  Ships' Log Os are responsible for all logistics on board the ship.  This means that although your logistics training will concentrate heavily on Supply and Finance, you will also receive training in Food Services, Transportation and Human Resources management.  All in all the formal training you receive from BMOQ to joining your first ship will take at least a year, but that's only if every piece of the puzzle comes together (warning:  they generally don't).  After the formal coursing, if there is a space available (and that's getting to be a big "if" as the Fleet is starting a major mid-life refit program), you will be sent to a ship as the Assistant (AKA "Baby") Log O.  You will be the "Baby" for 10-12 months, after which you will have to sit a Board (an oral examination with you on the hot seat) where for about 2-3 hours you will have to convince a number of senior Log Os that you know what you're doing.  If you pass the Board, you will be deemed qualified and then considered eligible for appointment as a ship's' Log O.

4) Would switching from Sea Log to Land Log or vice versa treated and processed similar to switching trade?

Pretty much yes.  It's possible and easier than completely switching occupations, but still difficult.  It's also important to note that each environment has its own culture and if you switch, it will take time for you to gain credibility.

5) Is the job of Log O particularly hard to get in? How's the job prospect in recent years?

Last I heard, Sea Log is quite healthy so we're not gagging for people.  This means that although there will still be intake every year, it won't be as high as other occupations.  Sea Log is also smaller than Army or Air Log, so there will be fewer intakes overall.

6) Would being a Log O limit one's chance of going on overseas deployment? And if a Log O goes overseas, would he/she be expected to stay a Log O doing solely that job, or is there some other oppertunities?

Loggies are everywhere.  Yes, you can be deployed overseas on just about any mission, including landlocked ones (e.g. Afghanistan).  There are jobs that can be filled by any occupation, so yes, there are other opportunities.

7) I am not a political-career obsessed mind person, but would being a Log O hinder one's promotion and command eligiblity? (especially as one gets up to high senior rank and start approaching flag ranks) I am planning a long term career in CF and I'm not particularly keen on trade that will keep me only at certain rank. (Be it true or not, I don't know, but I belive I saw somewhere about someone switching trade because it had no future or so to speak of)

Opportunity is what you make of it.  The Log Branch is the largest in the CF, so there are lots of opportunities for advancement.  In recent years, two Log Os have made it to VAdm/LGen (2nd highest rank overall)

8) What is the daily life of a Log O in Land and Sea like?

At sea, you're basically a day worker, which means you get to sleep normal hours and watch all the movies.  ;D  However, there will be plenty of opportunities to lose sleep (Officer of the Day, Emergency/Action Stations, runs ashore, etc.)  Remember it's all fun and games until the flooding gets out of control. 

9) What might be helpful information about Log O that may be important or worth some extra points in the interview?

Show up on time, wear a suit and tie that fit properly, think before you speak, speak properly with confidence and be yourself

10) Any helpful tips/hints/warnings/so forth?

Keep your eyes open, pay attention, learn from your mistakes and those of others (try not to make all the mistakes yourself).  Remember that you are not yet God's gift to the CF and that perhaps your seniors know a little more about the art of war than you do. 

* To briefly explain my current state, I am applying for ROTP - RMC. I put forth Armour. Failed required vision category. I have two realistic choice of either Log O or MARS left. Decided Log O had priority over MARS. If anyone begs to differ, I want to hear great things about MARS as well. Anyways, I only have interview left and it was a sudden shock for me. And then, here I am.

* Sorry for asking this on you guys. I would have asked the folks down at the recruiting centre, but all they could say was generic, generic and once again, generic answers.

*Little bit of OT, but who are the people wearing cowboy hat/Austrailian ranger hat in the naval ship?

If you search this site for my posts, you will find that I have written few times about the life of Sea Log Officers.

 

[Rockgollem]

Wookilar - I appreciate the great information, mate! Very detailed and much more than what I could find out even after badgering military career counsellors. I think you got me decided on going to Land Log O than Sea Log (Sorry, Pusser.  :-\) I honestly don't think I can ask any more of you guys after such comprehensive info! Once again, thank you very much.

Pusser - Thank you for the info on Sea Log O! Sounds really great and it was one hell of an answer (In a good way) .

As for the tips/hints/warnings, thanks, mate. I lurked around this site for about 3 years before finally making this account and posting this question and during that time, and found some principles that I swore I would follow if I ever got into CF, one of them being down-to-earth attitude and to be modest. I know that you don't mean it literally, but I hope I never turn into some prick who thinks he/she's a god-send gift. And through some magical and reality-altering events, if I ever do turn out like that, now I know who to ask to kick my ass to get back to my old self.  :nod: 

And I did see some of your posts, but I wanted some info on Land Log as well, so I just went ahead with this.

Anyways, thank you, all! This would be a great help and I appreciate it! (And Pusser, keep staying pusser  ) (In Sea Cadets, so I know some navy terms  )

 

[Pusser]

Sometimes there's just no accounting for people's taste!

For me, it was never a difficult choice:  regular showers, clean sheets, cutlery, crockery, hot food and flush toilets versus  - - -  living in a hole.  Although you never have to deal with Force 10 (where you have to tie yourself in between those clean sheets, the cutlery crockery and hot food are flying across the room and the flush toilets fight back) in hole, but it's still a hole.  ;D

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

In the Naval Reserve world, the first Log O to command a Naval Reserve unit was appointed something like five to seven years ago in HMCS BRUNSWICKER (in Saint John).

Not quite: CDR Hughes Letourneau was commanding HMCS DONNACONA in Montreal in the mid eighties.

And Rockgollem, here is a small additional on Pusser's great description of the Sea Log officer: In the Navy, we look at ALL officers as officers first, tradesman second. This means that we expect them all to be leaders and that Sea Logs can expect and will find themselves in charge of various general naval tasks and work parties that have nothing to do with logistics. In all cases the crew will always look up to the officers for leadership. For instance, if a ship was to sink and the Sea Log officer found herself in the same boat as the Buffer (the ship's most senior small boats and seamanship tradesperson), he and all in the boat would expect the Log O to provide the leadership required by the situation.

Also, while I have never heard of a Sea Log going that route, there are no legal impediment to achieving command. Technically, the bridge watchkeeping certificates and command certificates are open to any who fulfil the requirements, which are mostly command exams, time at sea in certain roles , recommendation from your Captain and siting the appropriate boards. Some Engineering officers have done it in the past (way in the past, but still). The Naval aviators of old (HMCS BONAVENTURE era) used to have to qualify for bridge watchkeeping and  achieved both command of ships and task groups. When I left the service (about ten yrs ago), there were some Sea Log O's who were permitted to give a hand on the bridge as second officer of the watch, at their request and time permitting. 

 

[Neill McKay]

Not quite: CDR Hughes Letourneau was commanding HMCS DONNACONA in Montreal in the mid eighties.

My mistake.  It was billed as the first at the time, but perhaps without rigorous research.

 

[a78jumper]

@oldgateboatdriver....at one point up until ca 1968 Naval Supply Officers were Bridge Watchkeeping qualified, but with the advent of the purple Logistics Branch that qualification became the exclusive purview of MARS officers.  I did know one Sea Logistics Officer, Cdr Bruce (? it'll come to me) who was the Comptroller at CFB Esquimalt when I first met him and he was a Bridgewatchkeeper, but had not been employed as such in many years.

@Rockgollem, I started off in the MARS classification and reclassed Log, but insisted on going Army as the opportunity seemed greater as a soldier, a decision I never regretted. Besides I wanted to jump out of perfectly good airplanes. I know a number of people who went Sea log and  most had a good go of it.

 

[kratz]

My mistake.  It was billed as the first at the time, but perhaps without rigorous research.

Just to add to Rockgollem's education:
In the early 2000s - Lt(N) LogO was XO of HMCS QUEEN CHARLOTTE (PEI)
Currently - a second Lt(N) LogO is XO of HMCS QUEEN CHARLOTTE (PEI)
Op Podium (Olympics) - Senior LogO - Commander Davies
Currently - Commander Davies is CO of HMCS YORK (Toronto)

This just shows there is no restriction for a LogO(Sea) career path. It's how much effort and dedication you put into it.

 

[a78jumper]

@oldgateboatdriver....at one point up until ca 1968 Naval Supply Officers were Bridge Watchkeeping qualified, but with the advent of the purple Logistics Branch that qualification became the exclusive purview of MARS officers.  I did know one Sea Logistics Officer, Cdr Bruce (? it'll come to me) who was the Comptroller at CFB Esquimalt when I first met him and he was a Bridgewatchkeeper, but had not been employed as such in many years.

@Rockgollem, I started off in the MARS classification and reclassed Log, but insisted on going Army as the opportunity seemed greater as a soldier, a decision I never regretted. Besides I wanted to jump out of perfectly good airplanes. I know a number of people who went Sea log and  most had a good go of it.

Name was Bruce Richardson

 

[SentryMAn]

Logistics Officer Training?

I know it Happens on CFB Borden at CFSAL
How long are the phases and the specialty training?

I'm not able to access the Din site for CFSAL.

Thanks

 

[Nfld Sapper]

Logistics Officer Training?

I know it Happens on CFB Borden at CFSAL
How long are the phases and the specialty training?

I'm not able to access the Din site for CFSAL.

Thanks

Logistic Officer Common Course (LOCC)

Aim
The aim of this training is to provide logistics officers the core knowledge and skills in leadership, staff work, logistic processes, resource management and personnel administration.


Prerequisites
In order to be selected for this training, the member must have successfully completed or been granted equivalency for:
Basic Military Officer Qualification (AIPB)
Common Army Phase (AIOX) for Army Officers, and Naval

Scope
The course is 35 training days in duration and covers the following Performance Objectives:

PO 001 – Promote Logistics Branch Culture and Traditions
PO 002 – Assist in Managing Logistics Operations
PO 003 – Assist in Managing Deployed Logistics Operations
PO 004 – Perform Military Staff Work and Communications
PO 005 – Manage Military/Civilian Personnel
PO 006 – Conduct Administration Processes
PO 007 – Administer Finance at the Unit Level
PO 008 – Oversee Contracting/Procurement at the Unit Level


If you are army then:

Logistic Officer Common Land (LOCL)

Aim
Advance Training Division is responsible for providing Logistics Officer Course – Land (Phase IV). The aim of this course is to provide the knowledge and skills required by Junior Land Logistics Officers in the performance of their duties as a Platoon Commander within a Close Support (supply, transportation or administration) or General Support Service Battalion.


Prerequisites
In order to be selected for this training, the member must have successfully completed or been granted equivalency for:
Common Army Phase
Logistics Officer Common Course Part I & II (AILJ)
Transportation Management, Supply Officer or AIHS, Pay Accounting Officer (PAO)

Scope
The course currently consists of 47 training days and covers the following Performance Objectives:

PO 001 - Provide Logistics Support for Exercises/Operations
PO 002 - Conduct Tactical Road Moves
PO 003 - Operate in a Field Environment
PO 004 - Direct operations of Command Post During Exercises/Operations
PO 005 - Manage Platoon Equipment, Resources and Personnel

 

[MJP]

In addition generally you will do your specialty course in between your Ph3 & 4.  The training Excel sheet I have is corrupted or I would put it on here for folks to look at.

Training Days

Transport- 19 days
Supply- 18 days
HR - 25 days
Fin- 15 days
Foods- 18 days

Generally but not always all three courses are done over one summer period to get you qualified.  Folks in the last few years have found their experiences differ due to training back logs & changing courses but it sounds like that is more or less back on track.

A typical summer therefore for an army LogO with his BOMQ(L) would look like this

LOCC 1 Jun-13 Jul
Specialty course 06-15 Aug - 09 Sep
LOCL 12 Sep - 09 Nov

 

[SentryMAn]

Can you provide the similar information for Air and Sea?

Thank you very much for the information!

 

[MJP]

Can you provide the similar information for Air and Sea?

Thank you very much for the information!

No as I don't have the training day info for them and don't have DIN access

 

[Wookilar]

Logistic Officer Common Sea (LOCS)
Aim

The aim of this course is to prepare selected Junior Naval Logistics Officers for the duties they will have to perform as a Ship's Logistics Officer. This course is only one of the prerequisites for the Sea Logistics qualification (AILK). It will normally be followed by 10-12 months of on-job-training on-board ship.

Prerequities

In order to be selected for this training, the member must have successfully completed or been granted equivalency for:

Logistics Officer Common Course Part I & II (AILJ)
Pay Accounting Officer Course (AIHS)
Supply Officer (AJSI)

Scope

This course currently consists of 47 training days and includes:

PO 001 – Perform the Duties of the Head of Department
PO 002 – Deployed Logistics Support
PO 003 – Manage NPF Operations
PO 004 – Manage Food Service Operations
PO 005 – Describe the Supply Operations
PO 006 – Manage the Contamination Control Organization

Logistic Officer Common Air (LOCA)
Aim

The LOCA is the final phase of basic-level officer training for Logistics Officers. LOCA candidates will have completed their Common Air Phase (CAP), followed by their Logistics Officer’s Course, Common (LOCC). The CAP, conducted at the Air Force Academy by Air Force personnel, introduces the officers to operating within the aerospace community. The LOCC, conducted at CFSAL, introduces them to the world of logistics.

LOCA builds upon this foundation by now educating these officers with regards to their duties and responsibilities upon a posting to a Wing, more specifically into a position as a Flt Comd, as of a part of a Mission Support Unit (MSU), as a Squadron Logistics Officer or into a similar position as part of a Wing Logistics Organization. Candidates are educated as to the structures of these units and the support concepts employed by an Air Expeditionary Units (AEU) and MSU in the field. They are introduced to managing human resources, replenishment operations, and financial operations at the squadron level as well as supporting deployed operations. Given the importance of the command post and operating in a field environment, the candidates are also given the theoretical introduction to those tasks.

Upon successful completion of the course, students will have the skills required to cope with their initial employment within a Wing and will possess the ability to continue honing and refining the basic Air Logistician ability they have gained at CFSAL.

Prerequisites

In order to be selected for this training, the candidate must have successfully completed or been granted equivalency for:

Air Log O Env Trg Ph II (10293)
Logistics Officer Common Course Part I & II (AILJ)
Transportation Management, Supply Officer (AIHS), Pay Accounting Officer (PAO), or Human Resource Management

Scope

The course currently consists of 26 training days and includes:

PO 001 - Managing Human Resource Operations at the Squadron Level
PO 002 - Managing Replenishment Operations at the Squadron Level
PO 003 - Managing Finance Operations at the Squadron Level
PO 004 - Provide Deployed Logistical Support at the Squadron Level

 

[SentryMAn]

Thank you!

 

[original_brad]

In addition generally you will do your specialty course in between your Ph3 & 4.  The training Excel sheet I have is corrupted or I would put it on here for folks to look at.

Training Days

Transport- 19 days
Supply- 18 days
HR - 25 days
Fin- 15 days
Foods- 18 days

Generally but not always all three courses are done over one summer period to get you qualified.  Folks in the last few years have found their experiences differ due to training back logs & changing courses but it sounds like that is more or less back on track.

A typical summer therefore for an army LogO with his BOMQ(L) would look like this

LOCC 1 Jun-13 Jul
Specialty course 06-15 Aug - 09 Sep
LOCL 12 Sep - 09 Nov

Do you volunteer for these different courses, or are you voluntold. I am army s I realize I'll most likely be looking at transport or supply, but I am hoping to go transport. 

Would you happen to have the different PO's for the specialty courses?

Thanks for so much info so far!

 

[MJP]

Do you volunteer for these different courses, or are you voluntold. I am army s I realize I'll most likely be looking at transport or supply, but I am hoping to go transport. 

Would you happen to have the different PO's for the specialty courses?

Thanks for so much info so far!

An appropriate time to ask the question as I was filling out my posting and specialty paperwork today.

They ask for your first and second choice among the options.  From what I have gathered that you usually get your first choice.  Keeping in mind that it is the military and if they have too much of one thing, someone will have to take the hit and take their second choice.

I don't have the POs.

 

[Wookilar]

During my phase training in '09 (I was on the first set of "new" courses to be run), everyone got their choice minus one or two people who ended up pay services (and there was 100 of us on LOCC), so that's a pretty good result.

As for the individual PO's....let me look around, I'll see what I can find.

Wook

edit: Course Content

Tn O

The course currently consists of 20 training days and include:

PO 001 – Manage Surface Lift for Road
PO 002 – Implement MSE Safety Program Acquire and re-market fleet resources
PO 003 – Manage MSE Fleet Resources Manage financial resources

Supply O

This course currently consists of eighteen training day and includes:

PO 001 - Monitor Supply Systems Management
PO 002 - Manage the Requisition and Procurement Process
PO 003 - Manage Warehouse Activities
PO 004 - Oversee Materiel Processing
PO 005 - Conduct SIV/SAV

Pay Accounting Officer

The course currently consists of 10 training days and includes the following Performance Objectives:

PO 001 – Manage the Pay Accounting Process
PO 002 – Process Claims
PO 003 – Administer the Working Capital Fund