Justin Trudeau hints at boosting Canada’s military spending

I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[KevinB]

If the CAF was actually serious about having resourcing a combat ready armed force (Navy, Army, AF) with general capabilities then you would need to reconsider the logistical infrastructure, material handing equipment, IT systems, space, security along with the required logistical, maintenance and engineering personnel required. You would also need to adequately man the ops unit so can have the chance to even perform basic maintenance tasks of their ships, aircraft, vehicles, weapons and material.

Most of these basic logistical, maintenance, engineering necessities were cut during the 1990s when PM Chrétien drastically cut the federal government's budget in order to balance the books.

Also a lot of ‘admin’ positions built around additional headquarters that command basically nothing.

This brings us to the question, what should the Government get for their budget assuming that the Gov't would want at least a Naval TF or BG or Air Sqn:
Three poorly equipped, under-manned and not readily deployable Services?
One fully equipped, manned and readily deployable Service?
Two fully equipped, manned Services, but ready to deploy within 30/60/90 days?

What should the CDS advise thew gov't knowng that the World and Canada's political and secuity constantly changes? Not an easy decision.

Or three fully equipped smaller services?

I don’t see why the Army has 4 poorly equipped Reg Force Bde’s and 10 basically non equipped Res Bde’s.

Maybe 3 Army Bde’s - 1 100% Regular, 1 70% Regular and 30% PRes, and 1 30% Regular and 70% PRes?

As well the RCAF should be able to have PRes Aviation, Transport and Fighter squadrons.

Unsure what can be done with the Navy in terms of Reg/Res

 

[CBH99]

Guess SAR got the stocking with coal in it…

They did indeed...not sure what we should do this with this situation...

We will have 16 aircraft sitting on the ground looking for something to do, and a small fleet of SAR planes retired.


Do we make the C-295 work with the intended SAR role? (What is the main issue anyway, that it can't perform the purpose for which it was purchased?)

 

[daftandbarmy]

They did indeed...not sure what we should do this with this situation...

We will have 16 aircraft sitting on the ground looking for something to do, and a small fleet of SAR planes retired.


Do we make the C-295 work with the intended SAR role? (What is the main issue anyway, that it can't perform the purpose for which it was purchased?)

Coles notes version: everything

Sovereignty in the Arctic and the struggles of the CC-295 Kingfisher: Richard Shimooka in the Hill Times | Macdonald-Laurier Institute

While some of the deficiencies of the CC-295 Kingfisher are fixable, the problems around weight, power and icing capabilities are very likely not.

macdonaldlaurier.ca

 

[CBH99]

Coles notes version: everything

Sovereignty in the Arctic and the struggles of the CC-295 Kingfisher: Richard Shimooka in the Hill Times | Macdonald-Laurier Institute

While some of the deficiencies of the CC-295 Kingfisher are fixable, the problems around weight, power and icing capabilities are very likely not.

macdonaldlaurier.ca

I literally can't wrap my head around how f**king stupid our political class is, or how dim witted our bureaucrats are...

So we went with the one plane that had been scratched from a previous competition due to all of the problems we are now tangibly trying to deal with. Problems we knew we would have before we even signed the contract for them...


It's Monday lol too early in the week for this!

That was depressing to read lol it's Monday, I need to

 

[MilEME09]

 

[Quirky]

So we went with the one plane that had been scratched from a previous competition due to all of the problems we are now tangibly trying to deal with. Problems we knew we would have before we even signed the contract for them...

Should've just bought some 'short bus' J-Model Hercs. No need to significantly re-train personnel and the supply chain is already there. I think it makes too much sense so logically it wasn't selected.

 

[KevinB]

Should've just bought some 'short bus' J-Model Hercs. No need to significantly re-train personnel and the supply chain is already there. I think it makes too much sense so logically it wasn't selected.

Penny wise, dollar foolish…
Hmm the RCAF with another orphan fleet what could go wrong


I’m sure the flight hour cost, and initial platform cost are much higher on the Hercules, but it’s also a larger more capable airframe already in service, in the CAF.

 

[dimsum]

Who bribed you to not talk about boots?

Don’t you even dare suggest repealing BOOTFORGEN - the one thing that’s worked out totally well so far.

Should've just bought some 'short bus' J-Model Hercs. No need to significantly re-train personnel and the supply chain is already there. I think it makes too much sense so logically it wasn't selected.

It wasn’t even in the competition. Unsure whether LM even offered it. Considering that the two bidding airframes ended up being the C-27 and the CC-295, I’m guessing that LM didn’t bid. You can’t pick something that the company isn’t bidding - contrast that with the recent P-8 purchase, since Boeing had already pitched the P-8.

This brings us to the question, what should the Government get for their budget assuming that the Gov't would want at least a Naval TF or BG or Air Sqn:
Three poorly equipped, under-manned and not readily deployable Services?
One fully equipped, manned and readily deployable Service?
Two fully equipped, manned Services, but ready to deploy within 30/60/90 days?

What should the CDS advise thew gov't knowng that the World and Canada's political and secuity constantly changes? Not an easy decision.

I, for one, would love to see the infighting between the Army Regiments as to who stays and who goes. The RCN and RCAF units may put up a bit of a complaint, but in general they aren’t as tied to a particular unit.

 

[Quirky]

It wasn’t even in the competition

Rumour is they didn’t bid because Canada wanted an ophan fleet and all-new capability with sims etc. We are already set up to fly the Herc, so technically LM didn’t meet our requirements. We are stuck with that POS CC295 so it’s all semantics at this point.

 

[Cloud Cover]

Rumour is they didn’t bid because Canada wanted an ophan fleet and all-new capability with sims etc. We are already set up to fly the Herc, so technically LM didn’t meet our requirements. We are stuck with that POS CC295 so it’s all semantics at this point.

So is there any working military value to that aircraft at all then?

 

[Navy_Pete]

Rumour is they didn’t bid because Canada wanted an ophan fleet and all-new capability with sims etc. We are already set up to fly the Herc, so technically LM didn’t meet our requirements. We are stuck with that POS CC295 so it’s all semantics at this point.

I don't know if they changed it, but years ago I was on a relatively big project (~$100M) and we were one of the first to go through the replacement for IRBs (Value Proposition).

Some of the points on that revolved around creating new work in Canada, with extra points for Small and Medium Enterprises (not to be confused with subject matter experts). One of the bidders was already established in Canada, and had a pretty good network of sister companies in their supply chain. They lost out on a bunch of points because they weren't creating new jobs, and whatever the corporate structure was the sister companies didn't count as SMEs.

So essentially our own (GoCs, not DND; those are ISED contract terms that get bolted on) RFP disadvantaged an existing Canadian company and benefitted foreign companies setting up a new supply chain. Which in PM/supply chain side, creates a risk you don't have compared to an existing supply chain that isn't solely dependent on you to keep working. The company pointed that out during the RFI stage and was essentially told 'that's the strategic goal yada yada yada'

Sometimes our own requirements are dumb AF with unintended consequences. I'm sure there are times we unintentionally undercut good options from all the layers of RFP BS that add on, which sometimes means companies don't even bother bidding.

 

[dimsum]

So is there any working military value to that aircraft at all then?

There is a surprising number of operators, and not just all “poor” countries.

EADS CASA C-295 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I’m guessing that at least some of those operators think it’s good enough for the mission they’re tasked.

 

[Quirky]

So is there any working military value to that aircraft at all then?

We can dump water off the ramp to fight fires.

 

[daftandbarmy]

I, for one, would love to see the infighting between the Army Regiments as to who amalgamates with whom stays and who goes.

There, FTFY

 

[KevinB]

There is a surprising number of operators, and not just all “poor” countries.

EADS CASA C-295 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I’m guessing that at least some of those operators think it’s good enough for the mission they’re tasked.

I find it so odd that none of that is Arctic SAR or Cold Weather operations…


It may be a perfectly fine plane for many nations - but it really doesn’t meet the requirements for Canada’s FWSAR…

 

[KevinB]

Rumour is they didn’t bid because Canada wanted an ophan fleet and all-new capability with sims etc. We are already set up to fly the Herc, so technically LM didn’t meet our requirements. We are stuck with that POS CC295 so it’s all semantics at this point.

I know you are kidding, but I think the Herc was too large an airframe based on a quick view of the original RFP.

 

[CBH99]

I think the only reason a company would even bother bidding is because of the dollar figures involved, and because of the product being pitched is partially a labour of love, ie new build, modernized Buffalo aircraft out of Calgary

And one would have to feel pretty passive about it, and weren't relying on the GoC project to sustain themselves or put food on the table


Because otherwise, why even bother?

The delays (sometimes measured in decades) or the absurdly political requirements, or the lack of common sense just seems like it wouldn't be worth it from a mental health perspective alone...

 

[GR66]

There is a surprising number of operators, and not just all “poor” countries.

EADS CASA C-295 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I’m guessing that at least some of those operators think it’s good enough for the mission they’re tasked.

I say convert them to the MPA configuration that Airbus offers. Would be a good complement to our new P-8's and give us something at least approaching the MPA fleet size that a country with our amount of coastline needs.

It would also have the added bonus of causing the heads of every Bombardier fanboy to spontaneously explode!

 

[MilEME09]

There, FTFY

All reserve Regiments less then 70% TES in 5 years reduced to coy strength and amalgamated. Done

 

[Remius]

All reserve Regiments less then 70% TES in 5 years reduced to coy strength and amalgamated. Done

Not sure about everywhere else but every unit in my CBG has been tactically grouped. COs and RSMs halved.

Still don’t have ammo and still don’t have equipment despite some people thinking that was the solution…