- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 210
Hey OG
If your trying to be funny, your not. Anyone that wants to tryout, puts in a memo (****). Maybe your Armouries does not have any posters up. You can logon and get all the info needed to try. They even have a training manual.
bench press 65Ks
5 honest PULLups
31 situps
49 pushups
and a 1.5 KM run.
That is just the min. You have to have 75 min points for assaulter and 65 min for support. every yr it gets harder. In 92 just after DND took it from the RCMP. It was not easy but, a real standard was not there.
Its no secret, any Reg or REs can tryout.
If your trying to be funny, your not. Anyone that wants to tryout, puts in a memo (****). Maybe your Armouries does not have any posters up. You can logon and get all the info needed to try. They even have a training manual.
bench press 65Ks
5 honest PULLups
31 situps
49 pushups
and a 1.5 KM run.
That is just the min. You have to have 75 min points for assaulter and 65 min for support. every yr it gets harder. In 92 just after DND took it from the RCMP. It was not easy but, a real standard was not there.
Its no secret, any Reg or REs can tryout.
Michael Dorosh
Army.ca Veteran
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 410
Can you post an image of it for us so we can see what it looks like?
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Rian_Ca
Guest
I just got throught Charlie Beckwiths book "Delta Force" ,and after seeing how there first mission to theran was a disaster simply because there helicopters would not perfrom in the iranian desert.Im sure if this mission were staged today,the newer aircraft wouldnt have such problems.
My point being,i fail to see how the Cnd government can justify having such a unit as JTF2 when we would have now the problems that the armericans had in theran in 1980 if put in the same situation.Thats also assuming we could get to theran.Anyone who read the book might remember how difficult it was to get the aircraft needed to ferry,excecute and exfiltrate this operation.We simply do not have these aircraft.Aside from that,they spent 3 months speacily training Marine Corp. helo pilots for this mission alone,i doubt we could get that done.since then,the army has formed the 160th soar wich solves all the special operations avaiation problems.
What would really happen if Canadians citizens were taken hostage in a hostile country? Would we call in the JTF? could they even hope to pull off such a rescue? Would it even get as far as having a sound,beleivable plan? I dont see how its possible,....unless of course they use American equipment...American aircraft,wich need American pilots to fly it...ect ect.
Besides having the right equipment and such,the US govnt. had outstanding Intel. about the target and souronding area.The CIA.They even called a special agent out of retirement,and put him on the ground to recon the site.This brings up another crucial point.Where would we get our Intel? This book tells time and time again how important it is to have sound,reliadble intel,especialy in special forces operations.The smallest details are pounded to death to get the smallest edge,and the amount of detail went into this operation is stated in the book,I dont see how Canada would have any of this...unless of course we had help from the American intelligence community.
But i guess Canada wouldnt hesitate to use the Americans,for free of course,but then again,that would only compromise the operation,not to mention our "Membership" in the Special forces Community.
Whats in a name? Joint Task Force 2...only because we couldnt afford not to be.
My point being,i fail to see how the Cnd government can justify having such a unit as JTF2 when we would have now the problems that the armericans had in theran in 1980 if put in the same situation.Thats also assuming we could get to theran.Anyone who read the book might remember how difficult it was to get the aircraft needed to ferry,excecute and exfiltrate this operation.We simply do not have these aircraft.Aside from that,they spent 3 months speacily training Marine Corp. helo pilots for this mission alone,i doubt we could get that done.since then,the army has formed the 160th soar wich solves all the special operations avaiation problems.
What would really happen if Canadians citizens were taken hostage in a hostile country? Would we call in the JTF? could they even hope to pull off such a rescue? Would it even get as far as having a sound,beleivable plan? I dont see how its possible,....unless of course they use American equipment...American aircraft,wich need American pilots to fly it...ect ect.
Besides having the right equipment and such,the US govnt. had outstanding Intel. about the target and souronding area.The CIA.They even called a special agent out of retirement,and put him on the ground to recon the site.This brings up another crucial point.Where would we get our Intel? This book tells time and time again how important it is to have sound,reliadble intel,especialy in special forces operations.The smallest details are pounded to death to get the smallest edge,and the amount of detail went into this operation is stated in the book,I dont see how Canada would have any of this...unless of course we had help from the American intelligence community.
But i guess Canada wouldnt hesitate to use the Americans,for free of course,but then again,that would only compromise the operation,not to mention our "Membership" in the Special forces Community.
Whats in a name? Joint Task Force 2...only because we couldnt afford not to be.
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 210
Thats an interesting theory about the uselessness of the JTF2 unit/s.
However, I don‘t think it would be prudent for the Canadian government to make all their methods of, intelligence gathering, training, special op‘s, and available weaponry (helicopters too), available to the general public. Just because the regular force military isn‘t using state of the art equipment doesn‘t mean that we don‘t have a small limited number of top of the line helicopters, and other weaponry, for our elite units to utilize.
I‘ve watched a couple documentaries about former Canadian spies. CSIS is our formal intelligence agency, akin to the CIA, they do a lot of the same things. However these spies operated outside the official intelligence community back in the 50‘s, 60‘s, 70‘s. We would obviously still have people currently doing the same, and for the most part we would never know about them, ever.
Plus whats the crack about using the americans "for free"? When did the Americans ever do anything for free?
You shouldn‘t just accept american propaganda at face value. Just because they frequently brag about their successes, especially in terms of intelligence, doesn‘t mean that they are better at it than anyone else.
However, I don‘t think it would be prudent for the Canadian government to make all their methods of, intelligence gathering, training, special op‘s, and available weaponry (helicopters too), available to the general public. Just because the regular force military isn‘t using state of the art equipment doesn‘t mean that we don‘t have a small limited number of top of the line helicopters, and other weaponry, for our elite units to utilize.
I‘ve watched a couple documentaries about former Canadian spies. CSIS is our formal intelligence agency, akin to the CIA, they do a lot of the same things. However these spies operated outside the official intelligence community back in the 50‘s, 60‘s, 70‘s. We would obviously still have people currently doing the same, and for the most part we would never know about them, ever.
Plus whats the crack about using the americans "for free"? When did the Americans ever do anything for free?
You shouldn‘t just accept american propaganda at face value. Just because they frequently brag about their successes, especially in terms of intelligence, doesn‘t mean that they are better at it than anyone else.
How would you know what they are capable of doing? Last I heard there was no official book detailing their operations, just media reports which aren‘t easily coroborated. For example, apparently, they have Humvees available to them....that vehicle is not listed as CF equipment. With a budget as large as theirs is said to be (by the media, again) who knows what else they could have.
D
dalredane
Guest
More intelligence is not always better intelligence. Look at the Tehran mission....all that planning and no one thought to figure out that flying across the desert on low approach would be as dangerous and catastrophic.
On the contrary....it was Canada who rescued a huge number of the hostages through the tunnel beneath the embassy. The work of a couple dedicated agents from Canada did more good than the whole planning capacity of the world‘s biggest superpower. Might is not always right. And capability is not always correlated to performance.
I remember when we rescued the hostages, we had Americans coming up to the border to say thanks to us and how proud they were that we were their neighbor and friend. It made you proud to be Canadian. Our governement actually had balls then.
That being said, the JTF-2 does have some rapid response deployment capability, although it won‘t be reported in the Globe and Mail....for obvious reasons.
The bottom line is....it don‘t matter how we get there, it‘s what you do when you are there. JTF-2 and CSIS have both been given dramatic budget increases in the wake of post 9-11.
Do we need more funding for military and intelligence....heck ya!!! But Canada has always outperformed its capabilities in every confict we have been involved in.
The article comparing Aussie defense and Canada was a good one, however neglects to mention that the current PM of Australia is a huge booster of defense issues, and he has been trying with great success to increase the capability of that country. Instead...our country wallows in the indecisiveness of the Liberals who blow $500 million alone in cancelling choppers that we desperately need, only to re-order them a couple years later.
On the contrary....it was Canada who rescued a huge number of the hostages through the tunnel beneath the embassy. The work of a couple dedicated agents from Canada did more good than the whole planning capacity of the world‘s biggest superpower. Might is not always right. And capability is not always correlated to performance.
I remember when we rescued the hostages, we had Americans coming up to the border to say thanks to us and how proud they were that we were their neighbor and friend. It made you proud to be Canadian. Our governement actually had balls then.
That being said, the JTF-2 does have some rapid response deployment capability, although it won‘t be reported in the Globe and Mail....for obvious reasons.
The bottom line is....it don‘t matter how we get there, it‘s what you do when you are there. JTF-2 and CSIS have both been given dramatic budget increases in the wake of post 9-11.
Do we need more funding for military and intelligence....heck ya!!! But Canada has always outperformed its capabilities in every confict we have been involved in.
The article comparing Aussie defense and Canada was a good one, however neglects to mention that the current PM of Australia is a huge booster of defense issues, and he has been trying with great success to increase the capability of that country. Instead...our country wallows in the indecisiveness of the Liberals who blow $500 million alone in cancelling choppers that we desperately need, only to re-order them a couple years later.
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 210
It is very unlikely, in my opinion, that you will see JTF2 or any other Canadian instrument of foreign policy be used in the event that Canadians were taken hostage in some foreign place.
The U.S. almost seems to use such incidents as a convenient excused to involve themselves in the affairs of other nations, using the premise of their captured citizenry as the foot in the door.
But Canada, particularly under the present administration, simply doesn‘t choose to deal with political hot potatoes in that manner.
My advice: If you are a dual US/Canadian citizen living in Canada, who gets caught up in some foreign nation‘s terrorism or political rabble-rousing (think Panama or Columbia), don‘t count on Canada breaking you out with JTF operators in all the gucci black CT kit. It‘s probably more likely the Americans will be gung-ho to do it, though! Carry your US passport as well as your Canadian one, and make sure to call Uncle Sam when the sh*t hits the fan.
The U.S. almost seems to use such incidents as a convenient excused to involve themselves in the affairs of other nations, using the premise of their captured citizenry as the foot in the door.
But Canada, particularly under the present administration, simply doesn‘t choose to deal with political hot potatoes in that manner.
My advice: If you are a dual US/Canadian citizen living in Canada, who gets caught up in some foreign nation‘s terrorism or political rabble-rousing (think Panama or Columbia), don‘t count on Canada breaking you out with JTF operators in all the gucci black CT kit. It‘s probably more likely the Americans will be gung-ho to do it, though! Carry your US passport as well as your Canadian one, and make sure to call Uncle Sam when the sh*t hits the fan.
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 210
Why don‘t you go knock on the front gate and ask the boys directly?
Useless is not a word that comes to mind.
And by the way, if I was in a situation as described I would gladly use my Canadian passport and lose the U.S one PDQ.
All this hypothetical chit chat about JTF2 is useless. It is like guessing what is at the bottom of the ocean.
Just train hard and join up for selection.Then you will know all you want. Simple huh?
Useless is not a word that comes to mind.
And by the way, if I was in a situation as described I would gladly use my Canadian passport and lose the U.S one PDQ.
All this hypothetical chit chat about JTF2 is useless. It is like guessing what is at the bottom of the ocean.
Just train hard and join up for selection.Then you will know all you want. Simple huh?
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 210
Rian
I‘ll take you down and we can meet the fellas. After they kick the crap out of you, you‘ll have second thoughts. The budget is mors than most Bges. So I would as Portcullisguy "Rethink it". As for equipment. There is a book that cover some of the stuff. What SAS, DELTA, GSG9 has they would have. So instead of posting crap, post something interesting.
If your military go to a recuitment brief. Then so up at the try outs if you can make it. But I take it your a Fat Lazy Civie Wannabe. That wants imfo, just to go to bars and beek off. You probley have a JTF Tshirt, black cell and a pager with big JTF letters? Wear Ebay Cadpat, a maroon beret with a CAR cap badge, with garrison boots. I seen your type in Ottawa, TO, etc. Until your cornered and you break.
I‘ll take you down and we can meet the fellas. After they kick the crap out of you, you‘ll have second thoughts. The budget is mors than most Bges. So I would as Portcullisguy "Rethink it". As for equipment. There is a book that cover some of the stuff. What SAS, DELTA, GSG9 has they would have. So instead of posting crap, post something interesting.
If your military go to a recuitment brief. Then so up at the try outs if you can make it. But I take it your a Fat Lazy Civie Wannabe. That wants imfo, just to go to bars and beek off. You probley have a JTF Tshirt, black cell and a pager with big JTF letters? Wear Ebay Cadpat, a maroon beret with a CAR cap badge, with garrison boots. I seen your type in Ottawa, TO, etc. Until your cornered and you break.
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 210
Ya looking back on my post I can see how it may seem that I was generalising about the quality of ALL our CF equipment/weaponry. That wasn‘t my intention however. I didn‘t mean that the CF doesn‘t have anything that is state of the art.
I meant that "wherever" you might find the average CF weaponry being insufficient to todays standards, you may be unaware of a replacement or upgrade that we possess that the general public doesn‘t know about yet. Possibly even in use by units we don‘t even know exist. I mean here we are gabbing away about JTF2 and the vehicles they use in an open forum, could this possibly still be our most secretive elite unit? I doubt it.
I meant that "wherever" you might find the average CF weaponry being insufficient to todays standards, you may be unaware of a replacement or upgrade that we possess that the general public doesn‘t know about yet. Possibly even in use by units we don‘t even know exist. I mean here we are gabbing away about JTF2 and the vehicles they use in an open forum, could this possibly still be our most secretive elite unit? I doubt it.
R
Rian_Ca
Guest
Recce41,im guessing by all the spelling mistakes you arent the best reader either.
I saw your post from a while back,and know you‘ve been there in 92‘ and some time after.Great.
If you were to re-read my post you‘d see that i said nothing negative about the JTF operators at all.I know their kit is state of the art blah blah.My point however is that with or without some fancy flash bangs,GPS or whatever they have,I still dont see how they can do what Delta,SAS,GSG9 does with out transpost planes,Troop helos,attack hellos,utility vehicles ect ect.
Im sure their training is along the lines of the SAS and other similar units.My point,wich i thought was quite clear was on the lack of support elements and intelligence,not on kit or training.
As you stated yourself,its no secret that they use Griffons.Are you implying that Griffons and iltis jeeps would have been suffient transpost and support to get to theran,or to arrest Noriega.If Griffons and Iltis jeeps were used on Oct 3 ‘93,we would never have known what happend in Somalia.Thats is my point.
Obvisouly the Canadian Govnt. knows this,as stupid as it seems to be,but they insist on funding this unit,although it is clearly half *** .
As for your little gutless crack about being a fat civvie wannabe,shove it.Grow some balls and have a straight forward conversation you ****,if you know better or have a different view on things,post it,and im sure you will recieve a thank you for informing the mis-informed.
Nice talking with you Sergeant,have a nice day.
I saw your post from a while back,and know you‘ve been there in 92‘ and some time after.Great.
If you were to re-read my post you‘d see that i said nothing negative about the JTF operators at all.I know their kit is state of the art blah blah.My point however is that with or without some fancy flash bangs,GPS or whatever they have,I still dont see how they can do what Delta,SAS,GSG9 does with out transpost planes,Troop helos,attack hellos,utility vehicles ect ect.
Im sure their training is along the lines of the SAS and other similar units.My point,wich i thought was quite clear was on the lack of support elements and intelligence,not on kit or training.
As you stated yourself,its no secret that they use Griffons.Are you implying that Griffons and iltis jeeps would have been suffient transpost and support to get to theran,or to arrest Noriega.If Griffons and Iltis jeeps were used on Oct 3 ‘93,we would never have known what happend in Somalia.Thats is my point.
Obvisouly the Canadian Govnt. knows this,as stupid as it seems to be,but they insist on funding this unit,although it is clearly half *** .
As for your little gutless crack about being a fat civvie wannabe,shove it.Grow some balls and have a straight forward conversation you ****,if you know better or have a different view on things,post it,and im sure you will recieve a thank you for informing the mis-informed.
Nice talking with you Sergeant,have a nice day.
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 210
No unit is secret. Just their missions. All special units have a new piece of kit. Just as we in the Regular unit have new non issue (secret) kit. Look at SAS books, Delta, etc. Only fools keep secrets. There are a few of us here that have served with or served next to JTF,SAS, Delta, GSG9. But you know the phonies, they are the ones that are "If I tell you I have to kill you" types.Or the ones that they have this and that, and this cool kit ,etc. Like I said I have met phonies, and they melt as soon as you hit them. With a I knew question.
Its all the same on all forums. There was one laddy. Who said he was CSIS,JTF. We hit him up for imfo. **** he was like a book.
When you even go to selection. You are told what you can say and cannot. After you make it, its the rest of the story. You don‘t tell.
Because to pass on imfo, to help a fellow soldier to pass select. Is not a secret.
Its all the same on all forums. There was one laddy. Who said he was CSIS,JTF. We hit him up for imfo. **** he was like a book.
When you even go to selection. You are told what you can say and cannot. After you make it, its the rest of the story. You don‘t tell.
Because to pass on imfo, to help a fellow soldier to pass select. Is not a secret.
R
radop211tc
Guest
Rian_Ca
if you were in the military, you would know, that the Cdn Mil are masters of Improvisation. They might not have all the fancy equip, that other countries do, but what they do have, they are very good at using it.
Who cares how JTF, gets anywhere, their main operation will be on the ground acquiring their target(s).
As for your comment on:
"lack of support elements and intelligence " the majority dont even know, their supporting JTF.
if you were in the military, you would know, that the Cdn Mil are masters of Improvisation. They might not have all the fancy equip, that other countries do, but what they do have, they are very good at using it.
Who cares how JTF, gets anywhere, their main operation will be on the ground acquiring their target(s).
As for your comment on:
"lack of support elements and intelligence " the majority dont even know, their supporting JTF.
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