Freedom Convoy protests [Split from All things 2019-nCoV]

[brihard]

That was initially true. The commission was told that those firms who participated in the final clear out of the convoy vehicles de-labeled/de-branded their wreckers and covered their faces.

They did. Everything was painted/taped over on their wreckers. That was after EA, so it’s not clear if they had to be compelled to assist. A few wreckers seem to have been acquired by the city and had Ottawa Police insignia on them.

 

[lenaitch]

They did. Everything was painted/taped over on their wreckers. That was after EA, so it’s not clear if they had to be compelled to assist. A few wreckers seem to have been acquired by the city and had Ottawa Police insignia on them.

I wonder if they were 'borrowed' from OC Transit. They are one of the few transit agencies that have (had?) their own fleet of heavy wreckers.

 

[Good2Golf]

I wonder if they were 'borrowed' from OC Transit. They are one of the few transit agencies that have (had?) their own fleet of heavy wreckers.

Borrowed/commandeered/directed to support fellow City of Ottawa department, they were available from the outset. Just to confirm I wasn’t imagining things, I drove past the OC Transpo yard at Industrial Ave/St.Laurent Blvd…there were at least 5-6 tandem/tri-axel OCTranspo wreckers I could see, mostly Mack and Volvo. Prior to the convoy, you occasionally see OC’s heavy wreckers recovering broken down buses around town.

https://flic.kr/p/hWZ2xC

https://flic.kr/p/h9uc9L

 

[brihard]

I wonder if they were 'borrowed' from OC Transit. They are one of the few transit agencies that have (had?) their own fleet of heavy wreckers.

Don’t know if it was the same ones, but I’m confident OC Transpo’s recovery vehicles would have been in play.

I saw the wreckers staged, but all the truck removal was, for obvious reasons, well behind us, so I didn’t see them at work.

 

[Jarnhamar]

This may be a stupid question but what prevented the police from arresting someone, taking their truck keys, and moving the trucks themselves.

 

[Good2Golf]

This may be a stupid question but what prevented the police from arresting someone, taking their truck keys, and moving the trucks themselves.

 

[PuckChaser]

This may be a stupid question but what prevented the police from arresting someone, taking their truck keys, and moving the trucks themselves.

Competence.

 

[brihard]

This may be a stupid question but what prevented the police from arresting someone, taking their truck keys, and moving the trucks themselves.

Not a stupid question. Lots of reasons. It did happen to a small degree (I saw a couple cases of it firsthand), but the biggest challenge would be actually making the right arrests out of thousands in the crowd, locating keys, and being able to match them to trucks. The crowd wasn’t kettled, nothing stopped someone with truck keys from not being within reach of police, simply walking away, or handing them to a friend. Plus when you have trucks parked dozens deep and side by side, a single truck that you don’t have the keys to can block dozens of others even if you do. Also, many trucks were registered to businesses, not by individuals, so we couldn’t necessarily match prisoners to trucks. If I arrest someone, find keys on him, and ask him which truck is his, nothing stops him from refusing to tell me if I have the keys to a parked truck, and simply telling me what to do with myself instead. Some trucks were also mechanically disabled. So, this was successful for a few vehicles, but not many.

Competence.

You’re wrong, and way out of your lane on this one.

 

[RedFive]

This may be a stupid question but what prevented the police from arresting someone, taking their truck keys, and moving the trucks themselves.

Disregard Brihard has it covered.

 

[RangerRay]

Sounds like OPP intel is saying there was no credible intel on violence or threat to national security.

OPP intelligence says convoy protests presented no ‘credible’ threat of extremist violence — Toronto Star

Pat Morris of the OPP waits to appear as a witness at the Public Order Emergency Commission in Ottawa, on Wednesday, Oct. 19.

apple.news

OTTAWA — The intelligence chief of the Ontario Provincial Police told a federal inquiry Wednesday that he saw no “credible” information of a national security threat or extremist violence during the self-styled “Freedom Convoy” protests.


The statement appears to contradict assertions from the federal government, which cited the threat of political violence as part of its justification for invoking the Emergencies Act to deal with the demonstrations last winter.


Supt. Pat Morris, the head of the OPP’s Provincial Operations Intelligence Bureau, told an inquiry probing the use of the Emergencies Act that his unit turned up no direct evidence of a threat of extremist violence after weeks of analysis and information-gathering on the protest participants.


“Everybody was asking about extremism. We weren’t seeing much evidence of it,” Morris said during his testimony Wednesday evening.


Morris also suggested that fears of extremist violence stemming from the protests were exaggerated by unnamed political leaders and unspecified news reports. “There always seems to be an overreach that comes with this politicization,” Morris said.


He said that politicians’ comments and media reports during the convoy conveyed an inaccurate “problematic” picture of what was going on.


“I was in a unique situation to understand what was transpiring. So when I read accounts that the state of Russia had something to do with it, or that this was a result of American influence, either financially or ideologically, or that Donald Trump was behind it, or that it was un-Canadian, or that the people participating are un-Canadian, that they were not Canadian views and they are extremists, that’s problematic.”
not Canadian views and they are extremists, that’s problematic.”

 

[brihard]

A couple things come to mind, legality of search for said keys, appropriately trained and licensed drivers, civil liability for said trucks afterwards.

Not really We got several sets of keys in lawful searches incidental to arrest. No issue there. Any of the trucks could be seized as evidence of an offence; some of them are in fact still being held and some of the protesters facing charges are super salty about that, but too bad so sad. Nothing wrong with authorities moving them or having them moved if there’s someone competent to drive it. Liability wouldn’t be much of a concern given the exigencies of the situation. If someone used their truck in the Commission of an offence and wanted to file a civil claim because it damaged on removal, they could have at ‘er.

We’re still really lucky most of them turned and fled at the last minute. It was a major undertaking even just with what remained.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Thanks Brihard and RedFive.

By my way of thinking most sets of keys should have keyfobs and automatic locks on them. Hit the button a few times and it beeps and blinks, unless trucks like that don't those.
[UFI-holding a keyfob against your head when you hit the button will increase the range].

If most truckers were sleeping in their trucks it might have been easy to wait then out. If they were in hotels then not so much.


We're just lucky earth wasn't passing through a comets tail at the time..

 

[QV]

Off topic for this thread but do you honestly believe that the January 6th events in Washington, which saw hundred of people storm and breach the Capitol, resulting in an ultimately fatal confrontation with security and caused the suspension, at least temporarily, of the peaceful transition of executive authority, as just a bunch of "disaffected voters"?

Yes. Do you think for a microsecond the most powerful country in the history of civilization was at any serious risk from buffalo hat guy and his friends?

 

[QV]

This may be a stupid question but what prevented the police from arresting someone, taking their truck keys, and moving the trucks themselves.

There is probably not an insignificant amount of support for the trucker cause amongst police. I’d also guess police were reluctant to do anything to a participant of a peaceful and lawful protest (which this was, for the most part).

In the early days of this, avoiding getting into a potential use of force incident over a parking violation was probably a wise discretionary call.

 

[Remius]

Yes. Do you think for a microsecond the most powerful country in the history of civilization was at any serious risk from buffalo hat guy and his friends?

I think its is safe to say that the democratic process was. Enough to have the elected body moved to safer locations and look at alternate means to carry on the business of government.

 

[Remius]

There is probably not an insignificant amount of support for the trucker cause amongst police. I’d also guess police were reluctant to do anything to a participant of a peaceful and lawful protest (which this was, for the most part).

In the early days of this, avoiding getting into a potential use of force incident over a parking violation was probably a wise discretionary call.

Non-violent but unlawful protest. Just to clarify.

 

[Navy_Pete]

I think its is safe to say that the democratic process was. Enough to have the elected body moved to safer locations and look at alternate means to carry on the business of government.

I think if they got through the doors it would have been a much different story with a lot more dead. But with the speed at which the people that were cowering on the floor praying for their lives flipped the narrative on it to not being a big deal I'm not sure there would have been any meaningful change either way.

 

[brihard]

Thanks Brihard and RedFive.

By my way of thinking most sets of keys should have keyfobs and automatic locks on them. Hit the button a few times and it beeps and blinks, unless trucks like that don't those.
[UFI-holding a keyfob against your head when you hit the button will increase the range].

If most truckers were sleeping in their trucks it might have been easy to wait then out. If they were in hotels then not so much.


We're just lucky earth wasn't passing through a comets tail at the time..

If it was just a matter of getting them moved, say clearing a highway after a massive snowstorm with a bunch of abandoned cars, sure just hand out keys to officers and walk the line trying to make cars beep. Thing is, with the convoy, the keys to any of the blockade vehicles are also potentially physical evidence of crimes. Continuity of that evidence matters. I’m not saying that would automatically override anything else, but it would be a factor against handing out keys willy nilly. If I arrest a guy, find keys on him, and they can be linked to a truck that’s part of the criminal offence of mischief, then we need to be account for possession and custody of those keys. They become evidence that that person had possession and control of that vehicle for the relevant times.

Adding criminal prosecution and chain of evidence means additional levels of complexity.

 

[lenaitch]

Thanks Brihard and RedFive.

By my way of thinking most sets of keys should have keyfobs and automatic locks on them. Hit the button a few times and it beeps and blinks, unless trucks like that don't those.
[UFI-holding a keyfob against your head when you hit the button will increase the range].

If most truckers were sleeping in their trucks it might have been easy to wait then out. If they were in hotels then not so much.


We're just lucky earth wasn't passing through a comets tail at the time..

I don't think remote entry fobs have been around as long in heavy commercial vehicles as they have in cars and pick-ups. I have also heard, anecdotally, that many owners disable them as they can be pirated fairly easily. As well, many install mechanical disablers (simple hidden switches for fuel pump, etc.).

[UFI-holding a keyfob against your head when you hit the button will increase the range].

 

[lenaitch]

Yes. Do you think for a microsecond the most powerful country in the history of civilization was at any serious risk from buffalo hat guy and his friends?

No, but the Senators and staff that were present, and the legislative action they were trying to perform, were.

Telling that you think the death, injury and damage we all saw was the justified action action of disaffected voters.