Buying/selling Medals Superthread [merged]

[Michael Dorosh]

The retired member would like to publicly offer the proceeds of the sale to Army.ca's donation fund to show a lack of need for profit and honorable intent.

Please keep in mind, the medals are of no interest to anyone but of course the member and maybe a collector. The member would like to have them in safe careing hands.

Would Army.ca accept?


giz

Honorable intent?  To do what, smear the entire Army?  He cries about how he is selling his medals for food, and now you are saying you are in communication with this lowlife who is now realizing his medals are pretty much worthless and so he will donate his money to army.ca to make some kind of point?

If there is a lack of need for profit, as you say, why does the auction listing say the exact opposite?

I get the feeling this is some sad little fellow who picked up the medals at a thrift shop and thought he could make a profit playing on the generousity of others - throw in some made up story about how bad the government treated him, and bob's your uncle.

That would be great, if it wasn't bringing discredit to all the ones, like Gunner noted, that have borne legitimate hardship from their service.

I would advise the scam artist in this case to come up with something more original - like the biker dude who sold his ex-wife's wedding dress for thousands of bucks, then went on Jay Leno to talk about it.

Oh, and why are the feedback comments for the seller private?  They are all positive, so what is he hiding?  Maybe 80 other sets of "his" personal medals?

 

[Blakey]

Now, if it hadn't been for my service, I wouldn't have been there in Germany, or on the world's fastest super-highway,

I have reached our long sought after goal of a posting to Germany serving NATO

Like I said in my previous post, something is askew here, at at a glance these two quotes from the ebay site seem to contradict themselves, the former member is trying to give the impression that he was forcibly posted to CFE (Germany), while in the second quote it reads much differently.

I'm not a SME on the subject so, if you could provide links to the VA website that hold any like information to your claims it wold be greatly appreciated.

Please, do not get me wrong here, certain protocols within the military might have been overlooked at the time of the accident, but I just don't see the relevance here (WRT VA/Pension Bennifits).
To go through that kind of an experience would be horrible, for anyone.

There is much more I wish to write but, i will leave it at that for now and give anyone else a chance to respond.

 

[Gizmoboy]

Folks, comments like that are not helpful to this family who was once one of you.

giz

 

[Blakey]

Folks, comments like that are not helpful to this family who was once one of you.

giz

Please specify a quote and, any luck with digging up the the pertinent info that i eluded to in my previous post?

 

[Gizmoboy]

Too sick at this point to play this game with you. Please read amongst yourselves, research amongst yourselves, and be helpful. Thanks.

giz

 

[Blakey]

Too sick at this point to play this game with you. Please read amongst yourselves, research amongst yourselves, and be helpful. Thanks.

giz

Im not about to to your homework for you.

 

[Gizmoboy]

Honorable intent?   To do what, smear the entire Army?   He cries about how he is selling his medals for food, and now you are saying you are in communication with this lowlife who is now realizing his medals are pretty much worthless and so he will donate his money to army.ca to make some kind of point?

If there is a lack of need for profit, as you say, why does the auction listing say the exact opposite?

I get the feeling this is some sad little fellow who picked up the medals at a thrift shop and thought he could make a profit playing on the generousity of others - throw in some made up story about how bad the government treated him, and bob's your uncle.

That would be great, if it wasn't bringing discredit to all the ones, like Gunner noted, that have borne legitimate hardship from their service.

I would advise the scam artist in this case to come up with something more original - like the biker dude who sold his ex-wife's wedding dress for thousands of bucks, then went on Jay Leno to talk about it.

Oh, and why are the feedback comments for the seller private?  They are all positive, so what is he hiding?  Maybe 80 other sets of "his" personal medals?

You just don't need to know about the sex toys I've been buying to keep myself occupied.

giz

 

[Torlyn]

You just don't need to know about the sex toys I've been buying to keep myself occupied.

wtf?  "How to ensure you're not taken seriously 101"

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Ok, so am I getting this correctly?  Giz is actually the ebay vendor?

I suggest that if you want to advertise your medals, you go post in Buy/Sell/Trade.  Locking this up now.

 

[military granny]

OK Guys and Gals here's a good question for all. What do you all think about people selling the Memorial Crosses on e bay? The following is a story in the papaer I found this morning, the widow is still living and family members found the cross on eBay. Now the question is...should it be illegal to sell historic war medals on on-line auctions?


http://www.thewhig.com/webapp/sitepages/content.asp?contentID=223486&catname=Local+News

 

[Brads MM]

Memorial Crosses should never be sold...it would only be proper that if a person selling one on ebay was contacted by a deceased soldiers relatives that He would end the auction and make arrangements to return the M.C. to the family. It would be the ethical thing to do. Much like the one seller on ebay who is selling found dog tags from Vietnam, He should be returning them to family members if he is contacted. There are some heirlooms which shouldnt be sold .It is my feeling that these types of sellers are driven by dollar signs instead of values. Just my opinion.

 

[military granny]

Brad
I have noticed a few of them on eBay in the last couple days and it sickens me to think there are families out there that don't have the memorial crosses they were given. I have two that were given to my great grandmother and I treasure them and the history the signify.

 

[wotan]

  I've collected various medals for a number of years.  I have the majority of them mounted in a tasteful display and I have used them to educate people about what each means and how the soldier it was awarded to may have earned it.  Otherwise, they are displayed in my home along with my own memorabilia.  Therefore, my opinion here is somewhat biased.

  I cannot understand why families would sell off the medals of their loved ones, but it does happen.  I would suspect that in a good number of cases, that as the medals are passed down within families, the story behind the medal is lost, hence the family members have no real idea as to what they have inherited.  I would also assume they don't have much interest, as a simple internet search will reveal at least the general parameters of what a medal was awarded for.  As well, there are those veterans that pass away and who have no one left in the world.  Perhaps they never had children, perhaps they have lost touch with any of their family members that may have survived.  Whatever the case, a wide range of medals are regularly coming onto the market.

  I don't particularly approve of people buying medals as an investment, however, it does happen.  Various countries have laws regarding these activities (for example in the US it is illegal to sell or buy a Congressional Medal Of Honor), but again, unless the laws are enforced, sales will continue.

  I have seen a variety of buyers of medals over the years do some very nice things with them.  One young collector I knew managed to get the War Medal, Victory Medal and Dead Man's Penny of a WW1 soldier.  He contacted the descendants of the soldier's siblings and passed these items to them, along with what each meant.  The family was duly grateful and now cherishes these items.  Other collectors have donated items to museums (both Regimental and public), as well as Legion Branches and other veteran's organizations. 

  Essentially, from my perspective, buying or selling medals isn't an inherently nasty thing, but I believe a certain degree of common sense and decorum ("ethical" behaviour, but a definition on that would vary widely) needs to be exercised.

  Just my .02.

 

[Michael OLeary]

Please keep in mind that if there was no 'collector's market' for these medals, then the families who did not want to keep them (or the estate where there is no remaining family) would most likely have discarded them as worthless junk.  Many collectors actively research the soldiers whose medals they have acquired, and accept it as a personal responsibility to keep their memory alive.

I also collect medals, specifically to soldiers of my own regiment.  And in similar respect to surviving families, I participated with an online group of collectors who mutually agreed not to bid on an e-bay auction to allow the surviving family to acquire the medal.

This article relates the result of one line of research I followed regarding a Memorial Cross: http://thercr.ca/individual_submissions/tnlfe_oleary/their_name_liveth_for_evermore.htm
Note the locations of the photographed gravestones.

I think you might agree that it was hardly an unethical pursuit.

(Edit: spelling)

 

[military granny]

Mr. O'Leary and Wotan
I commend you for doing research on the men named on the memorial crosses you both have acquired.I do know one other person who does this before he purchases any named medals, or does it shortly after he buys them. The thing I am saying here is, there are people out in the world that are just medal dealers, that do this for the money. Yes there are times when military medals end up in estate sales, when no family members are left to claim them. But don't you think that conscientious people should find a museum to give them to.
The thing that gets me is that these memorial crosses as well as all WWI and II medals are a very big part of our history. And for some medal dealer to have them on eBay or any other on-line auction site is IMPO degrading the service these soldier did for our country.How can you put a price on their service and death.

 

[Yrys]

How can you put a price on their service and death.

Mr. O'Leary didn't put a price on their services and death.
But some people do, and it is seen in every activities in most country.
Accidents happens, companies or individuals are blame for it,
and a price for a leg, an arm or a life is reaches, either through agreement
or court.

It is sad, but it is part of our lives.

Personally, I don't posse any medals, but I have the buttons that my mother
keeps from her RCAF uniform. This thread is beginning to impact on me.
Maybe I should do something with them, beside keeping them in a box...

 

[Michael OLeary]

Mr. O'Leary and Wotan
I commend you for doing research on the men named on the memorial crosses you both have acquired.I do know one other person who does this before he purchases any named medals, or does it shortly after he buys them. The thing I am saying here is, there are people out in the world that are just medal dealers, that do this for the money. Yes there are times when military medals end up in estate sales, when no family members are left to claim them. But don't you think that conscientious people should find a museum to give them to.
The thing that gets me is that these memorial crosses as well as all WWI and II medals are a very big part of our history. And for some medal dealer to have them on eBay or any other on-line auction site is IMPO degrading the service these soldier did for our country.How can you put a price on their service and death.

Why do you feel the need to state that collectors and dealers are putting "a price on their service and death" when in the same breath your "commend" us for our actions?

What do you think happens to medals at Museums once they feel they have enough on display?

Would these medals be better off in the hands of a collector who will research and protect them, or would they be better off being the 500th identical set of medals in a box in the Canadian War Museum warehouse for eternity?  Which of those possible end states would best achieve your desire to see them treated with reverence in the memory of the soldiers?

Yes, there are some whose primary interest lies in the trade (and profit) of medals and militaria - but that's how they move towards the collectors (or even searching families) who will give them the care and treatment you wish to see given them.

 

[1175CMR]

Here is my two cents.

I collect medals and memorial items to a specific battalion.  My main interest in collecting these items is to eventually donate them to a museum with connections to the battalion.  

I am a firm believer that medals should remain as part of a family's history.  However, these items often find their way out of the family, sometimes lost, stolen, or sold.  I also attempt to repatriate these items to descendants of the original owner.  However, it is easier said then done.  I have been successful once in returning found medals to a family member.  I have also been told to keep the medals as the family did not like the soldier and wanted nothing more to do with him.  In fact, they told me they were the ones who sold them in the first place.  Also, in 1935, my great uncle sold his for a bottle of scotch.  A tragic story but I am still searching for his medals.  So, there are many reasons why medals get into the hands of others.

In the end, many collectors do so to keep memories alive and if families are not willing to do so then it is a good thing.

I guess we all have differing opinions

 

[wotan]

Mr. O'Leary,

 I would see your actions as not only entirely ethical, but also highly commendable.  If there was a particular point in my previous post that caused offence, I do apologize as none was intended.


Military Granny,

 I believe I understand your point and your concern for honouring this nation's dead is absolutely laudable.  But when the families of the soldiers don't value these items (either they don't know or understand their value or, as you put, they are certainly able to put a price on their loved one's service), why should dealers or collectors be held to a higher standard than the families themselves?  Regarding the Memorial Cross in particular, I personally cannot fathom why a family would part with it, other than perhaps to donate it to a Regimental Museum or similar.  Yet, it still happens for a variety of reasons.

 As for donating private collections to Museums, that has to remain up to the individual collector, in my opinion.  I have considered allowing my collection to be displayed by my Legion Branch, but I have hesitated for several reasons.  My Branch is a smaller Branch, physically, so there isn't necessarily the space to display these items properly.  As well, insurance companies are very good at assigning a value to these types of collections and the Branch would be required to purchase extra insurance.  A nominal amount to be sure, but for a small Branch, every dollar counts.

 Again, just my .02.  I believe your sentiments are completely on target, but reality and human nature simply indicate that medals will continue to be bought and sold for years to come.  I can only account for those that are in my possession and I try to treat them with the reverence they deserve.  Personally, I don't think even a change in the Criminal Code would have any true effect on the current level of trading in these items.  And, sadly, as more of our WWII and Korea vets pass, I foresee their descendants losing touch with their military service and continuing to part with these medals via e-mail, garage sales, etc.  Sad, but there you have it.

 

[Gunplumber]

Micheal,
Well written.

Most medal collectors I know take great pride in researching the recipient of the medal. One collector I know has more information on mebers of a Regiment than the Regiment itself. They even contact him when they need information. I really doubt that the War Museum cares about half the stuff they have in their collection and as Michael says it would most likely get stuck in a box never to be seen again.