AOR Replacement & the Joint Support Ship (Merged Threads)

[NearingZenith]

Hope not. Just another photo op and a mouthful of word salad including how the government is meeting it military agreements.

Then off to the Fairmount Pacific Rim and maybe some surfing.

I’m ok with the PM taking a photo with the HMCS Protecteur. He followed RCN recommendations that the JSS is a necessary capability and stuck with the JSS program despite the PR campaign by Davie, reports from the PBO, and flak from opposition parties all looking to de-scope or cancel the JSS in favour of buying the Asterix and Obelix as if they were equivalent to the JSS. The government’s management of the JSS program does not deserve awards, but a photo op and a speech for putting a boat in the water? I’ll give them that. Especially if the feel good moment inspires them to announce a much needed 3rd JSS.

 

[Czech_pivo]

I’m ok with the PM taking a photo with the HMCS Protecteur. He followed RCN recommendations that the JSS is a necessary capability and stuck with the JSS program despite the PR campaign by Davie, reports from the PBO, and flak from opposition parties all looking to de-scope or cancel the JSS in favour of buying the Asterix and Obelix as if they were equivalent to the JSS. The government’s management of the JSS program does not deserve awards, but a photo op and a speech for putting a boat in the water? I’ll give them that. Especially if the feel good moment inspires them to announce a much needed 3rd JSS.

That last sentence is what I'm really hoping for to occur. Furthering this wet dream, dare I suggest that a 4th JSS joins us in this fantasy?

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Even if they announced it, it would be quite a few years off, as components and major lead items ordered. Even just the steel would take time, as the existing steel is destined for the next JSS and the other incoming steel is for the icebreakers which will be very different in type and thickness.

 

[GR66]

Even if they announced it, it would be quite a few years off, as components and major lead items ordered. Even just the steel would take time, as the existing steel is destined for the next JSS and the other incoming steel is for the icebreakers which will be very different in type and thickness.

I don't have a huge problem with that. We should be planning now for the next one in 10 years...and another 5 years after that...and another 5 years after that. A continual build and replacement program rather than a flurry of replacements of a rusted out fleet followed by another flurry of replacements when THAT fleet is rusted out.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

I see that the new HMCS PROTECTEUR sports number 520, not the 511 one would have expected. Is that reflective of something, or just a random rounding up for no other reason than "it looks good", like when we had the IROQUOIS skip (from NIPIGON's 266 to IRO's 280)?

 

[NearingZenith]

Even if they announced it, it would be quite a few years off, as components and major lead items ordered. Even just the steel would take time, as the existing steel is destined for the next JSS and the other incoming steel is for the icebreakers which will be very different in type and thickness.

Another JSS in the early 2030s would actually work out well. The RCN can run the Asterix hard over the next few years even after the Protecteur and Preserver are commissioned. Then by the early 2030s when the Asterix is ~15 years old (post-conversion), worn-out, and due for a refit, the Federal Fleet Services contract can expire and a newly commissioned HMCS Provider can replace Asterix as the 3rd supply ship.

 

[Halifax Tar]

I’m ok with the PM taking a photo with the HMCS Protecteur. He followed RCN recommendations that the JSS is a necessary capability and stuck with the JSS program despite the PR campaign by Davie, reports from the PBO, and flak from opposition parties all looking to de-scope or cancel the JSS in favour of buying the Asterix and Obelix as if they were equivalent to the JSS. The government’s management of the JSS program does not deserve awards, but a photo op and a speech for putting a boat in the water? I’ll give them that. Especially if the feel good moment inspires them to announce a much needed 3rd JSS.

Can you provide references for your belief that opposition parties have tried to cancel the JSS ?

 

[Stoker]

Another JSS in the early 2030s would actually work out well. The RCN can run the Asterix hard over the next few years even after the Protecteur and Preserver are commissioned. Then by the early 2030s when the Asterix is ~15 years old (post-conversion), worn-out, and due for a refit, the Federal Fleet Services contract can expire and a newly commissioned HMCS Provider can replace Asterix as the 3rd supply ship.

We won't be using Asterix in the early 2030's.

 

[Underway]

We won't be using Asterix in the early 2030's.

I was at a briefing when the Asterix arrived in Halifax. The Comdre at the time was talking about the ship and how there was a 5 year contract. He looked at one of the Chiefs in the front row and asked "What does that mean to you Chief?".

"Means we're gonna use it for 20 years Sir!"

Lmao

 

[Stoker]

I was at a briefing when the Asterix arrived in Halifax. The Comdre at the time was talking about the ship and how there was a 5 year contract. He looked at one of the Chiefs in the front row and asked "What does that mean to you Chief?".

"Means we're gonna use it for 20 years Sir!"

Lmao

The Federal Fleet contract is ridiculously expensive, I can very well see not renewing once we have two ships operational.

 

[Halifax Tar]

The Federal Fleet contract is ridiculously expensive, I can very well see not renewing once we have two ships operational.

That would make sense, or buy it outright.

 

[dapaterson]

The Federal Fleet contract is ridiculously expensive, I can very well see not renewing once we have two ships operational.

The cost of operating a warship is ridiculously expensive. But most of the costs are borne by other organizations (ADM Mat for acquisition, sustainment and DWPs, CMP for personnel) so the cost borne by the RCN is not representative of the actual cost.

 

[Stoker]

The cost of operating a warship is ridiculously expensive. But most of the costs are borne by other organizations (ADM Mat for acquisition, sustainment and DWPs, CMP for personnel) so the cost borne by the RCN is not representative of the actual cost.

Fully aware where the money comes from. In my opinion we are continue to be hosed by Federal Fleet and the money spent could be reallocated for other things. It was a necessary evil obviously to maintain this capability but hopefully the end is in sight.

 

[Stoker]

That would make sense, or buy it outright.

I would imagine we would survey it and perform a cost analysis to see if its worth it.

 

[Rainbow1910]

Fully aware where the money comes from. In my opinion we are continue to be hosed by Federal Fleet and the money spent could be reallocated for other things. It was a necessary evil obviously to maintain this capability but hopefully the end is in sight.

The contract is sitting around the $1B mark now (plus whatever isn’t covered under it and is charged to the Govt by FFS) I think? People talk about buying Asterix and even having a sister ship built but according to the 2020 PBO report on her, Davie wanted $724m for the Govt to purchase her upon delivery and nearly $800m for a potential sister ship as of 2020?

The value of Asterix only goes down as the time goes on and from what I’ve heard, there isn’t much interest within the RCN about purchasing her outright. The ship is a civilian conversion and has seen extensive use thus far. Davie buys the ship for $20m, spends a few hundred million to do a budget conversion (outsource the superstructure from abroad, don’t put baffles in the fuel tanks, delivery it in questionable condition, etc) and then demand over $700m for an outright purchase? People talk about Irving being rip off artists lol.

I have my doubts Davie will change their tune and give us a reasonable deal to purchase Asterix later, they know they have leverage with the Canadian Govt and will milk that to the bitter end to continue getting whatever they can from it.

 

[dapaterson]

Fully aware where the money comes from. In my opinion we are continue to be hosed by Federal Fleet and the money spent could be reallocated for other things. It was a necessary evil obviously to maintain this capability but hopefully the end is in sight.

Or we outsource the fleet support more, and focus the RCN on warships...

 

[Stoker]

The contract is sitting around the $1B mark now (plus whatever isn’t covered under it and is charged to the Govt by FFS) I think? People talk about buying Asterix and even having a sister ship built but according to the 2020 PBO report on her, Davie wanted $724m for the Govt to purchase her upon delivery and nearly $800m for a potential sister ship as of 2020?

The value of Asterix only goes down as the time goes on and from what I’ve heard, there isn’t much interest within the RCN about purchasing her outright. The ship is a civilian conversion and has seen extensive use thus far. Davie buys the ship for $20m, spends a few hundred million to do a budget conversion (outsource the superstructure from abroad, don’t put baffles in the fuel tanks, delivery it in questionable condition, etc) and then demand over $700m for an outright purchase? People talk about Irving being rip off artists lol.

I have my doubts Davie will change their tune and give us a reasonable deal to purchase Asterix later, they know they have leverage with the Canadian Govt and will milk that to the bitter end to continue getting whatever they can from it.

Who needs stinking baffles and a stable platform to operate a helo from? But hey it was on time and on budget.

 

[Stoker]

Or we outsource the fleet support more, and focus the RCN on warships...

Or actually build and staff RCN ships with RCN sailors that can go into the warzone.

 

[Photopilot]

I would imagine we would survey it and perform a cost analysis to see if its worth it.

You must be new around here.....

 

[Stoker]

You must be new around here.....

Joined about a month ago.