What will happen with the CF?

[jrhume]

Based on my understanding of what happened in the election, it looks like Martin will be spending more on health care and some sort of national child care plan -- which I hadn't heard of before.  

Does this mean the Forces get little or nothing?   Will the CF continue to shrink?   How do you guys see it?

Jim ???


Great question Jim. I added a poll.
Muskrat89

 

[Lance Wiebe]

I am afraid.

To get any bills passed, the liberals will need the support of the Bloc.

The Bloc doesn't give a fig about the CF.

Therefore,......I am afraid that the future of the CF is bleak. 

Perhaps bleaker than in the past.

I do hope that I am wrong.

How do you see it?

 

[Infanteer]

Not neccessarily.  If the Liberals wised up on military spending, we could hope that Conservatives wouldn't play party politics and vote with their interests (a stronger military).

 

[bossi]

In addition to the BQ not caring too much about the Canadian Forces, it'll be a frosty day when the NDP vote for more military spending ...

Hmmm ... maybe we'll be pleasantly surprised, and the federal Liberal party (er, um ... government) will increase the CF Medical Group, thereby fulfilling their campaign promises while simultaneously increasing defence spending ... ha!  NOT!!

 

[Limpy]

Well at least it can't be anyworse than it already is right?

 

[mclipper]

It can always get worse.  The Liberals, NDP and the BQ couldn't give a toss about the CF.  Only the Conservatives do, and you can bet that no one will side with them when it comes to giving us anything!

 

[Limpy]

So it is worse.

 

[Poppa]

Not just bad. A couple of posts ago it was mentioned the liberals would have to turn to the bloc. They don't have to when the NDP hold the balance of power in the house.
Combined seats with the liberals and NDP combined is about 159 or so...I can't count right with all these tears of rage.
The focus of the swing group will be all the promises that the PM made in an effort to scare people red.
National Child care
Free meds
Housing
Cancellation of any private funded health delivery (hmmm what's Paul gonna do about his personal MD?)

Don't expect anything for us unless it's going someplace nasty to hand out hugs, teddy bears and stern lectures about "soft power" and "human security with dignity".

 

[Danjanou]

Actually llast count (and I have a feeling it may change again because there were a few close ones) is the Libs with 135 and the NDP with 19, which is exactly half of the 308 seats. The CPC have 99, the BQ 54 and 1 Ind. In theory that ties everything up, except ole Paul has to appoint a speaker, and odds are he won't want to appoint a hostile one from another party so.....

Button your helmet straps boys and girls it's gonna be a wild ride methinks. :

 

[Jascar]

As someone else said, the Liberals don't need support from the Bloc or the NDP to pass every piece of legislation. If they were to propose additional funding to the CF, it would likely be up to your beloved Conservatives to let it pass or fail. Unless the Liberal plan is extremely controversial, the Conservatives will probably vote to pass the additional funding. The political risks of not voting for additional funding would likely far too great for the Conservatives.

 

[Infanteer]

Not just bad. A couple of posts ago it was mentioned the liberals would have to turn to the bloc. They don't have to when the NDP hold the balance of power in the house.
Combined seats with the liberals and NDP combined is about 159 or so...I can't count right with all these tears of rage.
The focus of the swing group will be all the promises that the PM made in an effort to scare people red.
National Child care
Free meds
Housing
Cancellation of any private funded health delivery (hmmm what's Paul gonna do about his personal MD?)

Don't expect anything for us unless it's going someplace nasty to hand out hugs, teddy bears and stern lectures about "soft power" and "human security with dignity".

Your information is a bit dated, the NDP cannot make or break government; four close seats in BC went Conservative at the end; like DanJanou said, this one is up in the air, especially with Martin just announcing that he will form government strictly with the Liberal Party.

 

[canuck101]

I agree with Jascar that the conservatives would support an increase in spending if it came up for a vote , but i don't think they will get to it.  The liberals will be to busy sending the money on childcare and healthcare trying to increase their seat count for the next election. If you think they promised the farm now wait till the next election.  They are going to get a second morgage on that farm and tell the sheep of Canada you have two choices healthcare or a military. Which one do you think the canadian would choose.

 

[bossi]

Actually, appointing a speaker from the Opposition is a clever tactic that's been used before - it effectively takes away one vote from the Opposition, and since the Speaker is obliged to be non-partisan it's an effective way of muzzling a nuisance MP (i.e. the Speaker is forced to referee, vice take part in any fray - plus, it's much like being a referee in hockey - at one point or another, the ref/Speaker is "nobody's friend" because they're forced to follow the rules, vice partisan politics ... and thus alienating them somewhat from their own caucus ... since after all, politicians eat their own).

And, the earlier comments about the government agenda sound true - they'll simply stick to "motherhood" stuff (e.g. health care, more hand-outs, anything that'll buy them a vote in the future ...) and when anybody votes against them the federal Liberals will shriek loudly about how the Opposition is trying to destroy Canada
(it seems to have worked brilliantly during the recent election ...)

Personally, I'm afraid that Canada has already been destroyed by the shrewd exploitation of divisive special interest groups cynically set one against the other according to the perceived political gains to be had (vice doing what's right for Canada) according to the smarmy, non-elected little puke scum who monitor the public opinion polls - "divide and conquer".

However, I'd best address the title of this thread ...
I'm afraid that the afore-mentioned smarmy, non-elected little puke scum who monitor the public opinion polls in order to maximise political gains (vice doing what's right for Canada) will step up their campaign to turn the CF into a "peacekeeping" entity, vice true Armed Forces.

Armed forces must be suited for combat, not peacekeeping
Re: Stealthy warships are next wave for world's navies, June 28
(The Ottawa Citizen)

Regardless of the spin put on the subject by the Liberal party and others in the heat of an election campaign, Canada does not maintain armed forces, including new joint support ships, for peacekeeping operations.

Their primary mission, as for the rest of the Canadian Forces, will be to engage in and support combat operations overseas. Peacekeeping died at the end of the Cold War, and was interred in the midst of blood and failure at places such as Srebrenica and Mogadishu. It has been replaced by international security operations, such as those in Kabul, Afghanistan, where the troops have the authority to engage in combat to enforce their mandate.

Canada did engage in conventional combat operations in Kosovo in 1999 and in Afghanistan in 2002, operating under NATO in the former case, and with a U.S. coalition in the latter.

Perpetuating the myth of peacekeeping is not in the best interests of Canada or its armed forces. It creates the impression that Canada does not want to become involved in the tough jobs, and it stymies the Armed Forces in their attempts to obtain new equipment and otherwise keep up with rapid developments involving new threats and technology.

A. Sean Henry,
Ottawa,
Colonel (ret'd)

 

[Scott]

Many things can be said about how this will all go being that there is the minority Gov't. I think that it is way too early to say what will happen to our beloved CF, but I do think that we would have been far better off had the PC's got the nod. Maybe, just maybe, the Liberal's will realize how weak their grip may be on power and that it would be very easy for the Tories to find an Alliance with someone else that could really mess their term up. I think the last thing that the PM wants is to be forced to go back to the polls. The Tories are in an enviable position as far as I can see, for if they can win the trust of the other parties, then an alliance with one of them to create havoc for the Liberal's is far more realistic. I think that it is far easier for the BQ and NDP to align themselves with the PC than the Liberal's. 

Choose to agree or disagree, I only hope that if you do either that you at least voted as well, no matter who it was for!

Cheers!

 

[SFontaine]

In the newly elected Parliament of Canada, the Liberals have 135 seats. That's 20 seats short of the 155 needed for a majority. Normally, when the Liberals don't have a majority, they count on the support of the NDP, but this time, the NDP only got 19, so even then they're one seat short.

Chuck Cadman is an Independant. Since most party MPs aren't allowed to vote against their own party, Chuck is a very valuable wild card to both the Liberals and the opposition. If, for example the NDP and the Liberals voted "yes" on some bill, and the Bloc and Conservatives voted "no," the vote would be 154 to 153. If Chuck then voted with the Bloc / Conservatives, the vote would be a tie, which counts as a failure, and the Liberals could be forced into the whole non-confidence vote thing with new elections and so forth. Or he could vote with the Libs. Who knows.

 

[Lance Wiebe]

Actually, no, there wouldn't be a tie.

One of the 308 MP's will be the Speaker of the House.

Word is, the speakers position has been offered to the Bloc, of all parties!

This will effectively steal one vote from any Bloc/conservative vote, so a vote would end up as 153/154, assuming the independant votes with the conservatives.

This makes Cadmans' vote even more critical.  He actually holds the balance of power!

 

[Marauder]

I think we got the shaft with anything short of a Conservative majority. With the minority scenario, the Forces get lost in the shuffle as the ruling party plays Mom, Molson, and Medicare legislation. The CPC will be too busy buying influence and swaying voters for when the new gov goes to the polls again in 18 months time with the hope of getting an even bigger slice of the pie. In the meantime, they will back off playing hardball with defence issues or reforming the "justice" system *snort* They'll have the sting fresh in their minds of what happened when certain party members slipped off the leash and spoke their mind on their convictions and principles, and the resultant furor of the loony left that turned centerists chicken in the voting booth. The CPC and the libs will both hem and haw and wring their hands about improving defence, but any budgetary increase will only be enough to pay outstanding bills (if that) or the cash will just disappear into the waiting maw of NDHQ's large black hole. That's my prediction anyway.
Stick the fork in, we're just about done.

 

[CF104Starfighter]

I think some people should also keep in mind that the independant is a former Conservative that was dropped from the Conservatives, for whatever reason, I don't know...I thought it was controversial comments, but I can't be sure.  This could be a good or a bad thing, as he's said that if he was invited to join the CPC, he would take it to his constituents, and he thinks that he won because people were PO'ed about him losing the CPC nomination. 

 

[Brad Sallows]

The elected independent, Chuck Cadman, lost the Conservative nomination in his riding because another Conservative candidate stuffed the nomination process with delegates.  Cadman said nothing controversial and was not dropped from the Conservatives for any other reason.  Cadman won because voters like him; the margin of victory may have been greater because some voters disliked what happened during the nomination process.

 

[CF104Starfighter]

Alright, thanks for clearing that up.