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Updated Army Service Dress project

We have a uniform designed to have bling that tells your life story.

We have a uniform intended to be functional, protective and utilitarian to permit sailors, soldiers and aviators to do their jobs.

We have confused them, and added unnecessary bling to the functional uniform.
I don't think we need to be that dogmatic.

The problem I see is that the current army uniform that tells your life story is that it is a crappy uniform and its different versions (that take it from hanging around the office day-to-day and to parading before the King) do not look or function well at either level or in between.

At the other end, I agree with @Furniture with this.

I'm completely unconvinced that allowing people to wear a trade badge, wings, unit/division patch, etc., on the CADPAT impedes their ability to be protected by the uniform or do their job.

What is "unnecessary" bling is a subjective issue. There is no reason to be Mao era PLA with everyone wearing the same baggy trousers and no rank badges. We inculcate pride in unit and pride in accomplishments in our service members. Just because the uniform is functional doesn't mean we can't boast a little when wearing it.

🍻
 
Caution: geezer eruption

Geezers.jpeg
Back to the Army's new service dress ... I have no strong feelings, one way or the other, except for one thing: there is NO flamin' need for any service dress at all, ever.

Soldiers need:

1. A combat uniform - almost certainly several variations in colour, weight, etc. All of you, dear readers, are expert on this, I am not - too old, my first combat uniform consisted of black coveralls and 37 pattern canvas webbing and load carrying equipment;​
2. Many work uniforms - "work" varies, for any one person, from stuff done outdoors, in the cold, with a shovel or other tools to stuff done indoors in an air conditioned room. Each soldier needs several task-appropriate work uniforms. All work uniforms ought to share a few common features: easy to maintain - not requiring excessive pressing and polishing; comfortable - there is no need, ever, for a necktie; "smart" when likely to be seen by any member of the public; clearly displays rank and important qualifications; and​
3. Social informs:​
a. A parade uniform, something like patrol dress, for all ranks, provided and maintained (within reason) at public expense because the "public" wants to see its Army on parade every now and again; and​
b. A mess dress uniform - required for officers and senior NCOs but not at public expense.​
The parade uniform can be "dressed down" a bit when a handful of senior officers might be required to attend meetings with senior officials or important civilians. There is, simply, no need for a service dress uniform. There is never a need for necktie.​
/end rant
 
Maybe we should wear 3Bs more often.
I wear 3B every day in the office, it's not the worst, but it's likely a bit too formal for most jobs most of the time. Maybe we need a "work dress" again, that combines the collared shirt look of 3s, with the wash and wear comfort of NCD/CADPAT.

If we did that, we could likely drop 3s entirely for those below Director/Director General level, leaving just work, combat, and ceremonial dress.
 
Caution: geezer eruption

View attachment 80291
Back to the Army's new service dress ... I have no strong feelings, one way or the other, except for one thing: there is NO flamin' need for any service dress at all, ever.

Soldiers need:

1. A combat uniform - almost certainly several variations in colour, weight, etc. All of you, dear readers, are expert on this, I am not - too old, my first combat uniform consisted of black coveralls and 37 pattern canvas webbing and load carrying equipment;​
2. Many work uniforms - "work" varies, for any one person, from stuff done outdoors, in the cold, with a shovel or other tools to stuff done indoors in an air conditioned room. Each soldier needs several task-appropriate work uniforms. All work uniforms ought to share a few common features: easy to maintain - not requiring excessive pressing and polishing; comfortable - there is no need, ever, for a necktie; "smart" when likely to be seen by any member of the public; clearly displays rank and important qualifications; and​
3. Social informs:​
a. A parade uniform, something like patrol dress, for all ranks, provided and maintained (within reason) at public expense because the "public" wants to see its Army on parade every now and again; and​
b. A mess dress uniform - required for officers and senior NCOs but not at public expense.​
The parade uniform can be "dressed down" a bit when a handful of senior officers might be required to attend meetings with senior officials or important civilians. There is, simply, no need for a service dress uniform. There is never a need for necktie.​

Methinks you may not have worn high collar whites or Army patrols on a hot humid day doing some form of foot/arms drill

, excrutiating! Soft collars with a clip on appear to be the best IMHO.
/end rant
 
Methinks you may not have worn high collar whites or Army patrols on a hot humid day doing some form of foot/arms drill

, excrutiating! Soft collars with a clip on appear to be the best IMHO.
I'm not quite as old as rmc_wannabe suggests but, trust me, I wore high collared tunics (and tightly knotted ties, too) on many a parade square on many a hot day. In fact a well fitted high collared tunic is, in my experience, always more comfortable than a starched collar and tie. One does not have to think of the modern high collared tunic; there was a softer collared jacket over 100 years ago.
 

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I'm not quite as old as rmc_wannabe suggests but, trust me, I wore high collared tunics (and tightly knotted ties, too) on many a parade square on many a hot day. In fact a well fitted high collared tunic is, in my experience, always more comfortable than a starched collar and tie. One does not have to think of the modern high collared tunic; there was a softer collared jacket over 100 years ago.
When I much younger I had the opportunity to participate in the Changing of the Guard ceremony at Parliament. We wore bearskin hats, high collared red woollen tunics and pants. On a really hot humid day the sweat would drip off the back of our bearskins onto the back of the tunic leaving long sweat stain trail. I have been on Bde and Unit change of command parades in the summer wearing CF Greens, DEU 1 (green and tan) and for Remembrance Days. Nothing like holding a rifle or sword for hours on end in the hot sun or rainy and/or cold November mornings.

It was fine wearing the high collared tunic because the ceremony only lasted 30 minutes, not including the marching to/from Parliament Hill. The Bde/Unit change of commands in the hot summer summer were endurance exercises as we stood for hours on the parade square waiting to be inspected and hearing the speeches. It was quite the relief to be able to finally march off the parade square.

As to whether a high collared neck uniform is better than the current Army DEU 1, the answer is ... when it depends. I would not want to wear the high collared red tunic for hours on end on a hot, humid parade square. It would be sauna and the people better be physically fit. At the same time, the DEU 1 was not comfortable either for parades with the marching, carrying rifles or swords. If I had to stand on a parade square, I would want head protection from the hot sun or rain. A properly fitted bearskin was not that uncomfortable and if positioned right it could keep the sun out of your eyes, but the rain would ruin the hat. Of course, the beret offers very little protection from the sun or the rain. The key is have physically fit troops, wearing suitable and comfortable head wear and clothing for the weather and activity.
 
When I much younger I had the opportunity to participate in the Changing of the Guard ceremony at Parliament. We wore bearskin hats, high collared red woollen tunics and pants. On a really hot humid day the sweat would drip off the back of our bearskins onto the back of the tunic leaving long sweat stain trail. I have been on Bde and Unit change of command parades in the summer wearing CF Greens, DEU 1 (green and tan) and for Remembrance Days. Nothing like holding a rifle or sword for hours on end in the hot sun or rainy and/or cold November mornings.

It was fine wearing the high collared tunic because the ceremony only lasted 30 minutes, not including the marching to/from Parliament Hill. The Bde/Unit change of commands in the hot summer summer were endurance exercises as we stood for hours on the parade square waiting to be inspected and hearing the speeches. It was quite the relief to be able to finally march off the parade square.

As to whether a high collared neck uniform is better than the current Army DEU 1, the answer is ... when it depends. I would not want to wear the high collared red tunic for hours on end on a hot, humid parade square. It would be sauna and the people better be physically fit. At the same time, the DEU 1 was not comfortable either for parades with the marching, carrying rifles or swords. If I had to stand on a parade square, I would want head protection from the hot sun or rain. A properly fitted bearskin was not that uncomfortable and if positioned right it could keep the sun out of your eyes, but the rain would ruin the hat. Of course, the beret offers very little protection from the sun or the rain. The key is have physically fit troops, wearing suitable and comfortable head wear and clothing for the weather and activity.

I, like many others before me, have had the privilege of wearing high collared scarlets with a Wolseley helmet and found that for parades in hot months, it did a great deal to make the heat bearable. The helmet in particular shielded nearly the entirety of my face from the sun, whilst allowing breezes to travel up and around my head.

On parade, I observed several hundred of my peers wearing DEU 1A with green berets. Despite almost not moving for several hours, I felt like I had the better end of the deal.

In summary - the Wolseley helmet is an excellent piece of kit.
 
I, like many others before me, have had the privilege of wearing high collared scarlets with a Wolseley helmet and found that for parades in hot months, it did a great deal to make the heat bearable. The helmet in particular shielded nearly the entirety of my face from the sun, whilst allowing breezes to travel up and around my head.

On parade, I observed several hundred of my peers wearing DEU 1A with green berets. Despite almost not moving for several hours, I felt like I had the better end of the deal.

In summary - the Wolseley helmet is an excellent piece of kit.
Imagine that, back in the day people made hats that made sense, rather than making hats that "fit in a pocket", or "are tradition".
 
Everything can be improved.




A sensible hat from "back in the day".

View attachment 80302
Don't get me wrong, I'm well aware that stupid hats have always existed, but that doesn't mean they're a "tradition" we need to carry forward.

I think the Aussies and Kiwis have nailed the hat thing with the army. Take a practical hat, and make it "formal" as required.
 
I think the Aussies and Kiwis have nailed the hat thing with the army. Take a practical hat, and make it "formal" as required.
Wasn't there a cowboyish hat adopted by one of the cavalry regiments (not RCMP or their predecessors), way back? Recall seeing an illustration somewhere.
 
Everything can be improved.




A sensible hat from "back in the day".

View attachment 80302
I was thinking this:

post-821-12791746713.jpg
 
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