The Great Gun Control Debate- 2.0

[Kat Stevens]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ne158mb8YM




Is a Star Wars blaster considered prohibited?  restricted?  non-restricted? 

Not the first time Lethbridge's Finest have wound up with poop on their boots. Seems to be a bit of a clown college down there.

 

[Haggis]

But, given that they used an OIC to do this, that piece must have come into force or they wouldn't have been able to do this with an OIC (PM Harper had previously made it a Parliament decision).

An OIC was used to reclassify the cz858 and Swiss Arms rifles (which were to be grandfathered under Bill C-71.  Because the new OIC specifically make reference to the Swiaa Arms rifles as now being prohibited again.  Which, to me means that they were not yet grandfathered by C-71 but were still restricted until the is OIC came into force.

 

[PuckChaser]

Is a Star Wars blaster considered prohibited?  restricted?  non-restricted? 

Judging by the competency of whoever drafted the Liberal's OIC, it'll be prohibited in the next legislation.

 

[CBH99]

Not the first time Lethbridge's Finest have wound up with poop on their boots. Seems to be a bit of a clown college down there.

As some folks here know, I now work as a civilian investigator for the Alberta Solicitor General Office, aka SOLGEN.


Maybe about a year ago, I went on a tirade on here about why/how Lethbridge police ended up being such a joke in the law enforcement community.  (As usual, it's a few bad apples that make them all look bad.  Most of them are good people.)

I promptly deleted my post a few hours later, out of caution.



The service leaves MUCH to be desired, especially in terms of their utterly lazy professional standards section. 

 

[mariomike]

there is generally a massive divide between union management and union members.

Union "management" are union members elected, and rejected, by their fellow union members.

Most people on the shop floor are a whole lot less socialist than the people who work fulltime for the unions.

The emergency services in my town have been unionized since 1918. That does not make us socialists.

 

[Retired AF Guy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ne158mb8YM




Is a Star Wars blaster considered prohibited?  restricted?  non-restricted? 

If I heard it correctly it sounds like a police officer with a "assault weapon" told the person filming the episode to move on or be arrested. I could be wrong, but just as troubling.

 

[ballz]

An OIC was used to reclassify the cz858 and Swiss Arms rifles (which were to be grandfathered under Bill C-71.  Because the new OIC specifically make reference to the Swiaa Arms rifles as now being prohibited again.  Which, to me means that they were not yet grandfathered by C-71 but were still restricted until the is OIC came into force.

Not if memory, and what I can still find on Google which corroborates with my memory, serves me correctly.

In 2014 when the CZ858 and Swiss Arms rifles were reclassified overnight, the legislation at the time gave police the power to reclassify it, it didn't even require an Order in Council, the RCMP just had to change the FRT. The CPC were governing with a majority parliament, and were as surprised as the rest of us to wake up and find out it had been reclassified. They put in a 5-year amnesty immediately, and went to work on legislation to fix the issue. You may remember the Liberals opposing it at the time, saying that the decision to re-classify firearms should be left with "experts," not politicians... They got the legislation passed (Bill C-42 "The Common Sense Firearms Licensing Act") before the next election was called.

Part of the Liberals campaign in 2015 (although small part) was to change the legislation back so that the "experts" made the call. But, what they really did was change it so that it could be done by OIC so that it was actually them, being "advised" by experts. Hence the Minister for Public Safety having this file, since he is "advised" by the "experts" at the RCMP. That was part of Bill C-71 which passed and received Royal Assent.

Now, I don't understand how something receives Royal Assent but only half of it is in force as of yet (I thought it would be all or nothing), other than I guess the bill just authorized the executive government to do something and they just haven't acted on some parts, but I did read prior to this ban that only "some" of the provisions of Bill C-71 were actually in place. So, for example, the executive has not yet used the authority to create the "back-door registry." That's why that particular piece is not "in force." That's me guessing.


https://ipolitics.ca/2019/06/05/bill-c-71-small-print-allows-prohibited-rifles-at-shooting-ranges-gun-clubs/

As part of the Liberal government’s attempt to fulfil gun-control promises from the 2015 federal election, Bill C-71 reverses a Conservative decision to overrule RCMP re-classifications for four models of a Soviet-era Czechoslovakian assault rifle that had been modified from an automatic shooting capability to semi-automatic only and imported into Canada.

The RCMP, which initially classified the Czech-made CZ858 as a non-restricted firearm, which could be used for hunting or range purposes, had reclassified the rifles as prohibited. The RCMP said the guns could be converted back into automatic-fire weapons.

READ MORE: RCMP decisions on restricted, prohibited firearms going public

In 2015, as a federal election was approaching, the Conservative government amended the Criminal Code to allow cabinet and then Public Safety Minister Steven Blaney to lower the classification to non-restricted.

https://openparliament.ca/bills/41-2/C-42/

This enactment amends the Firearms Act to simplify and clarify the firearms licensing regime for individuals, to limit the discretionary authority of chief firearms officers and to provide for the sharing of information on commercial importations of firearms.

Lastly, it defines “non-restricted firearm” and gives the Governor in Council authority to prescribe a firearm to be non-restricted and expanded authority to prescribe a firearm to be restricted. note the absence of authority to prescribe it as prohibited here

I could be wrong and I can't find it for certain, but I'm pretty sure Bill C-42 made it a Parliament decision to reclassify a firearm to prohibited. And so the Liberals would not have been able to pass this through OIC unless that part of the Bill C-71 was in force.

But you could be right, it might have made it that an OIC was required, which then would have allowed the Liberals to use OIC to ban these firearms without Bill C-71 being in force. But right now all signs point me to believe otherwise, and that parts of Bill C-71 are in force.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Union "management" are union members elected, and rejected, by their fellow union members.

The emergency services in my town have been unionized since 1918. That does not make us socialists.

The shop stewards, but the upper management of a big union have not been in a shop floor for a long time. You also need to read the stuff the labour Congress of Canada puts out.

 

[MilEME09]

https://www.hilltimes.com/2018/03/12/upcoming-gun-legislation-scaring-hell-liberal-caucus-pm-trudeaus-vitriolic-response-grit-mp-harveys-concerns-put/137000

This MP said the soon to be tabled gun legislation is “scaring the hell out of the Liberal caucus,” especially the ones representing rural ridings.

Sounds like it's the PM's way or no way, wondering who is actually calling the shots in this government

 

[LittleBlackDevil]

https://www.hilltimes.com/2018/03/12/upcoming-gun-legislation-scaring-hell-liberal-caucus-pm-trudeaus-vitriolic-response-grit-mp-harveys-concerns-put/137000

Sounds like it's the PM's way or no way, wondering who is actually calling the shots in this government

I would guess the PM is calling the shots?

In fairness, he did campaign on a programme of strict gun control. I'm expecting something like what NZ did since he seems to be ideologically very closely aligned with Ms Ardern down there.

 

[Jarnhamar]

[quote author=LittleBlackDevil]

In fairness, he did campaign on a programme of strict gun control.
[/quote]

Just like electoral reform.

 

[Haggis]

I could be wrong and I can't find it for certain, but I'm pretty sure Bill C-42 made it a Parliament decision to reclassify a firearm to prohibited. And so the Liberals would not have been able to pass this through OIC unless that part of the Bill C-71 was in force.[/quote}  I think the reverse is true.  Had C-71 been in force, the executive would not have been able to reclassify a firearm.  In that they did so by OIC, leads me to believe this portion of the Bill is not yet in force.

But you could be right, it might have made it that an OIC was required, which then would have allowed the Liberals to use OIC to ban these firearms without Bill C-71 being in force. But right now all signs point me to believe otherwise, and that parts of Bill C-71 are in force.

According to the RCMP Firearms website, the only provision of Bill C-71 now in force is that which compels The Commissioner of Firearms, if requested by the Government of Quebec, to provide a copy of all records that were in the Canadian Firearms Registry for all non-restricted firearms registered to residents of Quebec on April 3, 2015.

 

[MilEME09]

According to the RCMP Firearms website, the only provision of Bill C-71 now in force is that which compels The Commissioner of Firearms, if requested by the Government of Quebec, to provide a copy of all records that were in the Canadian Firearms Registry for all non-restricted firearms registered to residents of Quebec on April 3, 2015.

You mean the records that were supposed to be destroyed if I recall correctly?

 

[LittleBlackDevil]

Just like electoral reform.

If only firearms was an election promise he broke, too. But I knew that was never one we could bank on him breaking and no one, certainly not members of the LPC, should be shocked that this is coming to pass.

There real question, though, is will they do anything about it, or will they submit to the Party Whip and vote as they're told? I'm not holding my breath ...

Is losing every single rural riding enough to get the LPC out of power though? I suspect that these firearms laws may be popular in urban centres, since that's where all the strongly anti-firearm polls seem to come from.

 

[Jarnhamar]

[quote author=LittleBlackDevil]
Is losing every single rural riding enough to get the LPC out of power though? I suspect that these firearms laws may be popular in urban centres, since that's where all the strongly anti-firearm polls seem to come from.
[/quote]

The Liberals have the Toronto core and lots of Quebec.

The Torontonians also think that banning a dozen types of semi-automatic rifles (and mortar tubes, a bolt action 308, airsoft toy, TOW launcher etc..) will stop illegal handguns from being smuggled in from the US and the gangbangers to stop using those illegal handguns in shootings.

 

[MilEME09]

If only firearms was an election promise he broke, too. But I knew that was never one we could bank on him breaking and no one, certainly not members of the LPC, should be shocked that this is coming to pass.

There real question, though, is will they do anything about it, or will they submit to the Party Whip and vote as they're told? I'm not holding my breath ...

Is losing every single rural riding enough to get the LPC out of power though? I suspect that these firearms laws may be popular in urban centres, since that's where all the strongly anti-firearm polls seem to come from.

Another thing to consider, in the article i posted the rural caucus is no small group. What if some of them quit the party or cross the floor over this to try and save them selves come election time? The article states the rural caucus is 55 members, or about 1/3 of their seats. If even half try to save their own election chances the PM is in major trouble.

 

[blacktriangle]

I suspect that there are already enough illegal weapons floating around major population centres to supply the bad guys for years to come. That's assuming that more don't enter the country, which we all know they will.

I'm assuming that after this ban proves ineffective, you will see the Canadian left do their best to sweep future gun crime and mass-shootings under the rug.

 

[ballz]

According to the RCMP Firearms website, the only provision of Bill C-71 now in force is that which compels The Commissioner of Firearms, if requested by the Government of Quebec, to provide a copy of all records that were in the Canadian Firearms Registry for all non-restricted firearms registered to residents of Quebec on April 3, 2015.

Well that was last modified 6 months ago, and it also conflicts with the news release that it links to:

https://www.canada.ca/en/public-safety-canada/news/2019/06/royal-assent-of-legislation-strengthening-gun-laws-to-keep-communities-safe.html

While some technical amendments came into force immediately, others including licence verification, business record keeping, transportation provisions and grandfathering for CZ/SA owners will come into force by Order-in-Council at a later date.

Like I said, I'd need a lawyer to explain exactly to me how parts of a bill can be in force and other parts not, when the bill as whole has received Royal Assent.... I will interrogate one tomorrow over a beer. I hope you are right (not that it will matter, I am sure the Liberals will make sure that part of the bill is in force before they leave), but I think it's wishful thinking.

On another note, what you linked me too seems crooked as all hell. Were the RCMP not ordered to destroy that data? My memory is foggy, did the courts grant an injunction to stop it from happening and the court case was still pending?

 

[Kat Stevens]

Just like electoral reform.

Oo! Oo! And the transparency, don't forget the transparency! Where's that carbon tax money going again?

 

[daftandbarmy]

Apologies if this has already been shared...

"Friday’s announcement accomplished two things. It banned a style of weapon that has no place outside of the military, but it also reminded people who care about gun control that the Liberals have been inconsistent and at times illogical in their approach to the issue."

Trudeau’s hurried assault-rifle ban is a weak half-measure

Looked at in isolation, the Trudeau government’s announcement on Friday banning military-style, semi-automatic rifles is a logical and timely move.

Just two weeks ago, the worst mass murder in the country’s history left 22 people dead in Nova Scotia. The killer used a variety of firearms, two of which now join a list of more than 1,500 models and variants that can no longer be used, purchased or sold in Canada.

Like New Zealand, which moved quickly to ban similar weapons after the mosque shootings in Christchurch in 2019, Canada appears on the surface to be acting decisively in the wake of a similar tragedy.

“Canadians deserve more than thoughts and prayers,” Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said Friday.

The inference was easy to understand: Canada is not the United States, and it can and should ban a type of weapon built to do one thing only: kill as many people as possible, as quickly as possible.

For gun-control supporters, the move is long overdue. This page called for the banning of semi-automatic weapons, as well as handguns, last year. Others, including survivors of the École Polytechnique massacre in 1989, have been lobbying for decades for a ban on military-style weapons.

That has now been done, through a simple regulatory change. But it’s not accurate to say the Trudeau government moved swiftly on this issue. It promised similar actions months ago. And Friday’s announcement, by the government’s admission, was prompted by the Nova Scotia killings.

On the ban itself, the government has got many things right. To give gun owners time to adjust, it is putting in place a two-year amnesty. During that period, owners of the newly banned weapons won’t be allowed to use them for any purpose, and won’t be allowed to transport them unless it is to return them to the manufacturer, or to have them deactivated or destroyed.

Once Parliament can reconvene in full, the government will table legislation for a buyback program.

Even more importantly, the government says it will fix the regulatory regime used to impose the ban, so that manufacturers can’t get away with making minor tweaks to illegal models so as to render them legal.

Public Security Minister Bill Blair said the regulations will be “evergreen,” meaning the government should be able to close loopholes that allowed the semi-automatic rifle used in the Polytechnique massacre to remain a legal weapon in Canada 30 years later.

This is more than just a symbolic act. The ban will decrease the number of military-style semi-automatics in circulation in this country, while leaving law-abiding Canadians free to continue to purchase, own and use hunting rifles and sport-shooting guns.

But the ban is far from a guarantee that no high-powered semi-automatic weapon will ever find its way into the wrong hands again.

The killer in Nova Scotia, for instance, was not a licensed gun owner, and some of his weapons appear to have been smuggled into Canada from the United States. To date, the Trudeau government has not brought in any provisions to stop guns from flowing across the border.

As well, the Liberals passed a law in June of 2019 to beef up background checks and record-keeping related to guns sales, but many of its provisions still have not come into force.

Most puzzling of all is the government’s position on handguns. It has no intention of banning them in Canada; at best, as Mr. Trudeau repeated on Friday, Ottawa will give municipalities the power to restrict or ban handguns within their own jurisdictions.

That is an odd choice, and an empty gesture. If a ban on military-style semi-automatics is an effective way to reduce the number of weapons in circulation and available for mass shootings, then surely a similar ban on handguns – which also have no legitimate civilian purpose, and that kill and wound more Canadians every year than any other firearm – would have a similar effect.

Friday’s announcement accomplished two things. It banned a style of weapon that has no place outside of the military, but it also reminded people who care about gun control that the Liberals have been inconsistent and at times illogical in their approach to the issue.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/editorials/article-trudeaus-hurried-assault-rifle-ban-is-a-weak-half-measure/