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Witness!
Ship's Boarding Party [Merged]
- Thread starter DeepThaut
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Witness!
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They dont get extra pay?That seems a bit tough.
By contrast Royal Australian Navy boarding party members get an extra AUS$43.49/day during bording ops. So being on the boarding party during a 6 month persian gulf deployment would ring in quite a bit of dough on top of regular salary and deployment pay.
FSTO
Army.ca Veteran
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Cobbler;
We had the committee from special allowances (forget their NDHQ name) join us for a compliant boarding while we (HMCS ALGONQUIN) were on OP APOLLO. They agree that there should be an extra allowence for the boarding teams while in theatre. That was in 2003, nothing has progressed from there.
Here at CFFSE we are moving the training cell from Naden to the Work Point Gym. We will have the classrooms, offices and a large enough area for the containers and the rudementry sim ship. This will be all indoors. We are moving ahead in the simunition project and we hope to be training with it by spring. This is the interum step to the new project.
The SOCD for the Maritime Security and Training Centre is now at NDHQ/CMS and is receiving lots of support. It has now morphed into a Seamanship/Maritime Security and Training Centre and if all goes well there will be a new building and infrastructure on D jetty on the Colwood side. If things go well (which they never do) we may have it built by the 100 anniversary of the RCN.
So for all you army types who laugh at the boarding party and its training. We are moving ahead, it has been a slow process with lots of bumps and hiccups. We will never get to the level of conducting opposed boardings (that is what JTF2 Marine Section is for) but that is not what we are for.
More updates as they come.
PS. For those of you who want to become NBP, get fit and stay fit because the only way we will get extra pay is for the fitness level to go to the diver level to justify the extra pay.
We had the committee from special allowances (forget their NDHQ name) join us for a compliant boarding while we (HMCS ALGONQUIN) were on OP APOLLO. They agree that there should be an extra allowence for the boarding teams while in theatre. That was in 2003, nothing has progressed from there.
Here at CFFSE we are moving the training cell from Naden to the Work Point Gym. We will have the classrooms, offices and a large enough area for the containers and the rudementry sim ship. This will be all indoors. We are moving ahead in the simunition project and we hope to be training with it by spring. This is the interum step to the new project.
The SOCD for the Maritime Security and Training Centre is now at NDHQ/CMS and is receiving lots of support. It has now morphed into a Seamanship/Maritime Security and Training Centre and if all goes well there will be a new building and infrastructure on D jetty on the Colwood side. If things go well (which they never do) we may have it built by the 100 anniversary of the RCN.
So for all you army types who laugh at the boarding party and its training. We are moving ahead, it has been a slow process with lots of bumps and hiccups. We will never get to the level of conducting opposed boardings (that is what JTF2 Marine Section is for) but that is not what we are for.
More updates as they come.
PS. For those of you who want to become NBP, get fit and stay fit because the only way we will get extra pay is for the fitness level to go to the diver level to justify the extra pay.
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Roger That...Sorry about the heresay that was directed at me :-[.
I would love to see money. We're getting a nifty patch though...yeah. It would be nice to make it necessary to make exempt fitness level the standart to be on the team.
I think I may have used the wrong term with unopposed, GTS Katie was technically non-compliant. But when it comes down to it, we are trained well to deffend ourselves and do our jobs. They filled us in last year on Team Training what was coming up the pipe munition would be an excellent tool. Are they still talking about a better pistol with say 16 rounds and not 8?? I think it might have been more dreaming on the instructors part.
All in all I'm not trying to go for the whole counterstrike thing here I really like being on the boarding party. You get to go over to foreign ships see how they run things if they run things and in some case meet interesting people. As an ET most of my life sailing is below decks so any chance to get in a RIHB and run around is welcome (not to mention getting off watches). You feel like your really involved in what the ship is out there for. Its nice for someone who is out of the loop some times operationally.
All the best guys
I would love to see money. We're getting a nifty patch though...yeah. It would be nice to make it necessary to make exempt fitness level the standart to be on the team.
I think I may have used the wrong term with unopposed, GTS Katie was technically non-compliant. But when it comes down to it, we are trained well to deffend ourselves and do our jobs. They filled us in last year on Team Training what was coming up the pipe munition would be an excellent tool. Are they still talking about a better pistol with say 16 rounds and not 8?? I think it might have been more dreaming on the instructors part.
All in all I'm not trying to go for the whole counterstrike thing here I really like being on the boarding party. You get to go over to foreign ships see how they run things if they run things and in some case meet interesting people. As an ET most of my life sailing is below decks so any chance to get in a RIHB and run around is welcome (not to mention getting off watches). You feel like your really involved in what the ship is out there for. Its nice for someone who is out of the loop some times operationally.
All the best guys
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I did my NBP training in the mid '90s, and it was, um, less than impressive. This was before the MP-5 was even issued. I ended up getting a manufacturer MP-5 course in Boston, and was one of 6 sailors on the East Coast qualified before most of the Boatswains were.
I've seen a dramatic improvement in the level of training of boarding parties since then, but there is still a ways to go (IMHO).
Some of the issues I have is the non-standard weapons drill.....when handling a C-7, the order to "MAKE SAFE" means to drop the magazine out, do the unload drill, then re-insert the magazine (load). This proves that your weapon, though having a full magazine applied, has no round in the chamber and thus is "Safe". The boarding parties don't do things that way....and the awareness of muzzle control is, um, less than stellar in some circumstances. Sweeping your "buddies" isn't a good thing when doing an entry to the bridge.
I think some of that comes down to familiarity with the equipment, and the fact that the NBP on a ship that's not doing regular boarding ops is not handling their weapons on a daily basis, heck, sometimes not even on a monthly basis!
Things have gotten a lot better as compared to the first "boarding" I saw when I was on the Gatineau....but there's still room for improvement.
One advantage our boarding parties have is the diversity of personnel/trades. That's something that other navies have taken a close look at (reference to a Naval Review magazine a couple of years back) Our NBP has the ability to act as a "Prize Crew" with members from each trade necessary to sail a ship onboard, including a BWK and Certified stoker. There's an ET, signalman, bosun's, etc. We have a capability that other navies are seeking to emulate. It's something that hasn't been lost through the changes that have been made over the years to improve the NBPs.
NavyShooter
I've seen a dramatic improvement in the level of training of boarding parties since then, but there is still a ways to go (IMHO).
Some of the issues I have is the non-standard weapons drill.....when handling a C-7, the order to "MAKE SAFE" means to drop the magazine out, do the unload drill, then re-insert the magazine (load). This proves that your weapon, though having a full magazine applied, has no round in the chamber and thus is "Safe". The boarding parties don't do things that way....and the awareness of muzzle control is, um, less than stellar in some circumstances. Sweeping your "buddies" isn't a good thing when doing an entry to the bridge.
I think some of that comes down to familiarity with the equipment, and the fact that the NBP on a ship that's not doing regular boarding ops is not handling their weapons on a daily basis, heck, sometimes not even on a monthly basis!
Things have gotten a lot better as compared to the first "boarding" I saw when I was on the Gatineau....but there's still room for improvement.
One advantage our boarding parties have is the diversity of personnel/trades. That's something that other navies have taken a close look at (reference to a Naval Review magazine a couple of years back) Our NBP has the ability to act as a "Prize Crew" with members from each trade necessary to sail a ship onboard, including a BWK and Certified stoker. There's an ET, signalman, bosun's, etc. We have a capability that other navies are seeking to emulate. It's something that hasn't been lost through the changes that have been made over the years to improve the NBPs.
NavyShooter
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On the Winnipeg during OP Apollo, we had alot of Ex combat arms trades and they ran the guys through there paces. We had a firefighter that was a Army Ranger who taught our guys alot of good stuff. I realise this is not common on all ships but you have to say that the navy will look for the most experianced guys first. As for the course, the USN sends there guys up to see how we run a course because while we were in the gulf, ships would refuse to be boarded unless it was by us hence we did 7 in one day and ended the deployment with over 130 boardings.
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Some of the people we send on the NBP course probably shouldn't be there. We've had some team leaders and boarding O's who were almost to gung ho. It could be dangerous and you could see they were nervous even in training situations. Not the kind of people you want running the show. Our ships OP APOLLO team had a MS or PO2 Bos'n and a compatant Officer running it. They had a really sharp confidant team and I think it had allot to do with leadership.
Weapons handling is definitely an issue. I was struck by that on my course. Coming from an infantry (res) backround. It was drilled into me that it was a tool not a toy and deliberate aggressive weapons handling must become second nature.
In most cases we just load the mag on board and not cock it. Not to worried about sweeping my buddies. The Sig is always ready but holstered. I think we're just expected to have superior weapons handling skills. Some do some don't. The Diver in the RHIB will tell you pretty quick if he has to stair down your barrel.
On my last team training session we had Irish observers. They wanted to intigrate some of what we do into there teams. NATO is very interest in the way we do things too.
:warstory:
Weapons handling is definitely an issue. I was struck by that on my course. Coming from an infantry (res) backround. It was drilled into me that it was a tool not a toy and deliberate aggressive weapons handling must become second nature.
In most cases we just load the mag on board and not cock it. Not to worried about sweeping my buddies. The Sig is always ready but holstered. I think we're just expected to have superior weapons handling skills. Some do some don't. The Diver in the RHIB will tell you pretty quick if he has to stair down your barrel.
On my last team training session we had Irish observers. They wanted to intigrate some of what we do into there teams. NATO is very interest in the way we do things too.
:warstory:
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I believe we were on the same ship navy blue. The Montreal.
I was on the team for that trip.
We made a few mistakes but overall it was a successful mission for us and we all came back with our fingers and toes.
It was a great experience. I encourage anyway who is thinking about doing it to get off their buts and do it. You will never regret it
I was lucky and got join as an OS because the team was so short.
Just make sure you put the request form in, otherwise you will never know.
I was on the team for that trip.
We made a few mistakes but overall it was a successful mission for us and we all came back with our fingers and toes.
It was a great experience. I encourage anyway who is thinking about doing it to get off their buts and do it. You will never regret it
I was lucky and got join as an OS because the team was so short.
Just make sure you put the request form in, otherwise you will never know.
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In 2004 I did team training with the ship. They told us we had been approved to wear a patch??? Description unknown. When we would getting it unknown. Hurry up and wait thing I guess. All in all money is much nicer than a patch.
TAS we were on the same boat I was an OD Electrician on OP APOLLO. You did NARWAL tho didn't you?? I'm off the boat on course now.
To the admins around here I used the proper term for...pulling the action of a weapon to chamber a round??? ("Load the mag on board and not **** it") Didn't realize that was offencive...Sorry LOL.
Cheers
TAS we were on the same boat I was an OD Electrician on OP APOLLO. You did NARWAL tho didn't you?? I'm off the boat on course now.
To the admins around here I used the proper term for...pulling the action of a weapon to chamber a round??? ("Load the mag on board and not **** it") Didn't realize that was offencive...Sorry LOL.
Cheers
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Unfortunately the censor is designed to pick up certain words and that is one of them.
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I am wading into unknown territory, so tolerate my lack of knowledge...please.
Would it be useful to have JTF2 trainers run the instructor courses for the boarding parties? Usually uniformity of SOP's is the best way to go for tactical situations. You would hate to end up with some new guys in your group that were on a boarding party from another ship that did something totally different that what you were doing.
It also sounds like you guys are being tossed into a situation without the right tools. So very like a member of the CF to get served a pile of crap and make a gourmet meal out of it. Is there any possibility that the reason those ships in the Persian gulf would not let anyone but Canada board them is because they know you don't have certain tools needed to get into their smuggling spots? Maybe you guys should have a drug/munitions dog issued to every ship. I've seen what the Canada Customs dogs can do and they are brilliant.
And for you guys that are doing the boardings, please familiarize yourself with the paraphernalia of what meth labs look like. The ingredients and by products are unbelievably explosive and lethal to inhale. If you find one, you should be pulling out right away and going top-high with Scott air packs.
There is tonnes of info on meth on the Net, but this looks like a decent link:
http://www.kci.org/meth_info/meth_labs/
Or, if you want to get your computer flagged by the RCMP (like I just did) try this one:
http://www.homemadedrugs.net/
Good luck and watch your asses. You guys are doing us land lubbers proud out there.
Would it be useful to have JTF2 trainers run the instructor courses for the boarding parties? Usually uniformity of SOP's is the best way to go for tactical situations. You would hate to end up with some new guys in your group that were on a boarding party from another ship that did something totally different that what you were doing.
It also sounds like you guys are being tossed into a situation without the right tools. So very like a member of the CF to get served a pile of crap and make a gourmet meal out of it. Is there any possibility that the reason those ships in the Persian gulf would not let anyone but Canada board them is because they know you don't have certain tools needed to get into their smuggling spots? Maybe you guys should have a drug/munitions dog issued to every ship. I've seen what the Canada Customs dogs can do and they are brilliant.
And for you guys that are doing the boardings, please familiarize yourself with the paraphernalia of what meth labs look like. The ingredients and by products are unbelievably explosive and lethal to inhale. If you find one, you should be pulling out right away and going top-high with Scott air packs.
There is tonnes of info on meth on the Net, but this looks like a decent link:
http://www.kci.org/meth_info/meth_labs/
Or, if you want to get your computer flagged by the RCMP (like I just did) try this one:
http://www.homemadedrugs.net/
Good luck and watch your asses. You guys are doing us land lubbers proud out there.
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Ships have a fully trained HAZMAT Cleanup team (CSE Department...30 people) who clean up spills/etc on ships. We have Level B suits and SCBA set ups (new ones!!)
I don't know if we have any info on cleaning up a Meth Lab, but that's why we have phones and such...call the RCMP or others for advice.
NS
I don't know if we have any info on cleaning up a Meth Lab, but that's why we have phones and such...call the RCMP or others for advice.
NS
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I think it would be a waste of the JTF2 to train our guys for Boarding Party Ops, personally I think we have come a long way in the past few years and are only getting better. I know we have sent guys to the USCG to learn their methods and procedures and IMO they are the experts.
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Ex-Dragoon said:
you mean MIO
A
aesop081
Guest
painswessex said:
no, he means IMO..........In My Opinion
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MIO means Maritime Interdiction Operations and painswessex I did not mean that :
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Funny, there is a semi-parallel thread right now about arming the Coast Guard. Sounds like the Coast Guard aren't to big on the boarding stuff.
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Canadian Coast Guard doesn't board much if ever. USCG is a navy in it self and boards domestically everyday. Our Instructors have allot of OP APOLLO back ground and time on ships which the JTF2 does not. I think we're doing the training the right way. As for toys we have all the gear for container searches. The Weapons are reliable and the clothing and vests are comfy. What more can you ask for??
Later
Later
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