Rights of US and Canada to critize each other

[FascistLibertarian]

Hey all
first - As the mods closed the other thread this thread is not going to deal at all with homosexuality in the military as I dont think there needs to be more debate about that right now.

This is in regards to S_Baker's comment

I personally don't care what Canada does, stay withdraw, that is a political decision for your government and people.  I look at it this way, If I had my neighbor sticking his nose over the fence telling me how to raise my children or cut my grass, etc I would tell him to go * himself.

I have to say I disagree, Canada and America are friends. I have many friends who are American. It is a friends right, and more importantly their duty, to at times question choices and policies they feel to be bad or wrong.
I am pro-American, I have visted the country and met so many amazing people.
I love my country, Canada, and think it is the best country in the world.
The fact is both countries have many problems, neither is perfect by a long shot, and there is always room to improve.
There is a huge difference between constructive criticism and bashing, I feel there should always be room for constructive criticism. For example I disagree with American gun laws but would not say "stupid gun loving yanks will all kill each other" as this is short sighted bashing which will accomplish nothing other than offending people. I feel strongly that disagreement over laws or policies should be encouraged between our two countries.
As long as it is done in a civil manner and I have a chance to respond civilly I would love to hear any criticisms Americans have of this country.
If you cant critize your friends then what is the world coming to?

Mods if you find this thread pointless or think I shouldnt have posted bc the other thread got locked feel free to get rid of this thread.

Cheers
FL

 

[KevinB]

You spelled Canada wrong in the title  .


Remember its is also the American's perogative to tell some Third Party to go F themselves.  You can offer advice and do whatever -- but keep in mind you have absolutely no say in what another country does.  I dont think you would like the US bringing up the fact that our country went from support the Iraq intervention (52% support by polls at the time) to acting all high and mighty about "condeming it".  Lets face reality -- Martin hummed and hayed looking for a consensus and decided it was safer to do the Afghan thing instead of both.

As for what the US military applies to their members etc. that again is a American issue to be solved by American citizens.

In short I agree with S_Baker.

 

[FredDaHead]

You spelled Canada wrong in the title  .

(...)

In short I agree with S_Baker.

(Cut down for length)

He meant the great nation of Cananda in the Azores, of course!

Seriously though, I also agree with what you said and, thus, with Mr. Baker.

Just because you can criticize your friends doesn't mean they have to listen to you; if a friend criticized me the way Canadians bash the Americans, I'd also tell them to go fornicate themselves.

 

[Pikache]

Opinions are like assholes; everyone has one

 

[FredDaHead]

Opinions are like assholes; everyone has one

And your point is... what? That a discussion forum shouldn't be used to exchange opinions?

 

[tomahawk6]

Basically you want to point out your right to criticize the US and an american can criticize Canada. I recall the previous US Ambassador made critical comments about Canada's various policies. As I recall his comments were roundly denounced.

The bottom line is that a nation acts in its own self interest. Canada saw no need to participate in the war in Iraq but did deploy forces to Afghanistan. Missile defense is a hot topic where some dont want Canada to participate. A Canadian or European liberal sounds alot like a US democrat. What do they have in common ? They believe in socialism despite it being a failed ideology.If the democrats get control of the White House and Congress under a President Obama or Clinton you might well see a socialist tilt in the US.By nature though americans are averse to socialism.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Fixed the title.

Basically you want to point out your right to criticize the US and an american can criticize Canada. I recall the previous US Ambassador made critical comments about Canada's various policies. As I recall his comments were roundly denounced.

Not by all,...and thats the point.  Most American bashing, for bashing sakes, gets shot down quick on this site, I make that one of my points.

Tomahawk, have you ever been told to shut up in any military thread here because you were American?

 

[niner domestic]

Ok, title spell checked (thanks again GW for that hint) and corrected.  

While I can appreciate the autonomy and sovereignty of a nation to set it's own policies and laws, using the analogy of a neighbour to make the point is a tad skewed as the example forgets that that very same neighbour if presented with a suspicion of harm being caused to a child can and will, have something to say. It would unlikely that those comments would fall on deaf ears of state agencies set up to protect the interests of a child.  Same goes for the lawn example, a neighbour that doesn't cut his/her lawn can be commented upon to municipal agencies that deal with by-laws infractions.  International treaties, agreements and even international courts will act the same way if one member nation decides to challenge their actions.  So in order for the neighbour analogy to work, there must be the caveat that there is nothing being done that would raise the attention  or annoyance of the neighbour and therefore by logical extension no need for the said neighbour to even comment.  

Now I believe that while one American citizen of this forum believes that Americans don't care what Canadians think about their policies, it doesn't quite bear out to be a complete representation of what the other 300 million might believe, especially those US citizens that live near the border.  We aren't that far apart as individuals and of citizens of autonomous nations in the way we see each other and the way we think.  I think you will find that the closer you get to the border towns and cities, the closer you will find the ideologies and values are to each other.   The further south you head, the further those ideologies and values drift apart and appear to be of opposing values.  

I think that if you want to see a demonstration of polarizing ideologies, look to Europe instead of Canada.  There is a much wider schism between what Europeans think about the US and vice versa.  I believe the largest one is the sense of Americans and Canadians understanding the concept of self direction and advancement as opposed to the European view that is that the individual has little control over their own destiny.  Americans will stand for the freedom to pursue their life goals over the need to guarantee that no one is in need and Europeans believe more on the social supports/safety nets.  

Simply telling a opponent to P off may work for the beer swilling, Neanderthal living next door to you, but it's not going to work for trade agreements, coalitions, world banking, international law, treaties and obligations.  Hanging on to antiquated policies to appease the internal politics of ones nation, may eventually lead to trade and commerce going somewhere else where there is a more mutual field of operation.  Time will tell where this will lead.  

I found this article a while back and I re-read it when I start to think that the US and Canada are poles apart.  I am reminded that we aren't as bad as some would have us think.  

http://people-press.org/commentary/display.php3?AnalysisID=80

 

[FascistLibertarian]

stopping my RIGHT to spell the name of my country however I choose!!!!
This is a sad day for Cananadains everywhere..........

(thanks for the correection )

 

[tomahawk6]

Fixed the title.

Not by all,...and thats the point.   Most American bashing, for bashing sakes, gets shot down quick on this site, I make that one of my points.

Tomahawk, have you ever been told to shut up in any military thread here because you were American?

No. However, I am not being critical just pointing out that the author of the thread obviously wants to be able to criticize the US without getting the thread locked. ;D

Everyone has their opinion based on their perspective on any given issue.Whats kind of funny is that in military discussions we are more apt to agree than disagree which isnt the case when discussing politics or foreign policy. For military professionals one's own political views dont color one's view of the job. Talk foreign policy or politics then the individuals political views color the discussion.

 

[Greymatters]

Like any two good friends, its part of the relationship to poke fun at each other and be competitive.  However, there are times when people on both sides go overboard with their criticism. 

 

[FascistLibertarian]

I have not criticized the US at all in this thread besides pointing out that both of our countries have problems and that I disagree with the gun laws (to give one specific example which I didnt expand on).
But you are correct, I do not feel that threads which criticize either country should be locked unless they are very illogical/offensive/bashing for bashing's sake.
No one is against knee jerk anti-americanism more than I am.

 

[KevinB]

Your right FL -- I hate Cdn Gun Laws too... ;D

 

[Greymatters]

Its not the laws that are annoying...its the mindset across the general population that if you own a gun you are going to commit a criminal act.  legitmate owners are lumped in the same category as those who illegally acquire guns.