Rifles for Rangers
- Thread starter edgar
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I watched one of the Rangers from near Moose Factory shoot a polar bear with a .22-250 - he seem pretty calm but my blood pressure was up more than a bit!! One shot just under the ear at about 75 m sure did the trick...
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xena said:
That's true, but their capability drops off sharply at surprisingly short ranges. If you are letting them inside your Tueller distance with regularity, again I recommend a shotgun. They don't usually wear armour and eight or nine rounds with each trigger pull will maximize your odds of hitting something vital. Until they evolve tool use, complex problem solving, and teamwork, they will remain second place in the food chain. The only significant predation humans suffer is from other people. But if they did have opposeable thumbs, which rifle would they prefer for harvesting tasty rangers?
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Though, what I was trying to (probably fairly obtusely!) say was that a weapon that works well against people, might not be the best one for bears. I was a clerk, so WTF do I know about ballistics 'n' stuff... but from what I remember overhearing in the mess, (usually while drunk mind you), suggested that larger body masses and longer ranges require a bit larger calibre than you might want to use against an enemy soldier in FIBUA (or Urban Warfare, or... whatever it's called now... *sigh* I'm a dinosaur...)
But you're right, until one manages to crack a shot off in return, the tactical threat is limited. :warstory:
After all, there is a reason we eat animals for food... >
But you're right, until one manages to crack a shot off in return, the tactical threat is limited. :warstory:
After all, there is a reason we eat animals for food... >
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xena said:
I think we went from Fighting In Built-Up Areas (FIBUA) to Military Operations in Urban Terrain (MOUT) and today we've got Fighting in Somebody's House (FISH). Though that last one isn'y quite doctrinal yet
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xena said:"Fighting in Somebody's House (FISH)"
Wait for it. Probably coming down the pike as we type... :
OK, you win the "best/worst" pun of the day...
(edit because I have a near-terminal inability to type...)
Infidel-6 said:
- I STILL have a shirt that says that! (Actually, it doesn't say anything - you have to read it.)
-.303 has recently been made in small lots by IVI using the 'old' 215 grain C-I-L KKSP type bullets - headstamped "303 British IVI" - and issued as Ranger ammo because the Mark VII Ball has liabilities as a hunting round, and the Mark VIII Z Vickers MG cartridge was NEVER intended for Lee Enfields.
- Giving that the original stock of close to ONE MILLION Long Branch No. 4 Mk. I* rifles has dropped off since we adopted the FN C1A1 in 1956, we may soon have to decide on a new bolt gun for the Rangers.
- We COULD give them auto rifles and send them home with them like the Swiss government does with all of their men, but that would set too good of an example for the rest of the country.
- The issue with staying with .303 is that it is no longer made militarily in large quantities, and commercial .303 British has a limited SAAMI spec due to the weakness of older No. 1 Mk. III actions. If you had a new Remington 700 chambered for .303 (good luck!) you could push that cartridge to 50,000 plus CUP easy, vice maybe the SAAMI spec of about 45,000 CUP.
- But no commercial mfr would load 303 British that hot on the off chance that some fool would take it and cycle it through his SMLE, thus giving the antis an excuse to sic their running dog packs of commie cumbubbles against the gun and ammo mfrs in court.
- Solution? Military: 308 Winchester in a Savage Stevens 200 or similar low-end bolt gun. Yes, I realize that 7.62 NATO and .308 Win share the same cartridge case but NOT the same SAAMI specs, so the rifle would be built for the hotest commercially or militarily available specs.
- Commercial: The three most popular calibres in North America are: 30-06, 7mm Rem Mag and .270 Winchester. The 30-06 has the best selection of projectiles of them all.
- Historical: As a lark: 7.62 X 54R. Older than the .303, still used today in vast quantities as a Machine Gun cartridge (PKM, PKT etc), MILLIONS of bolt guns (Mosin-Nagant) avail all around the world. We will be swimming in these long after the last .303 round is ever fired at a moose.
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What about the AIA M-10 No.4 which MARSTAR is advertising. I personally know two Brisbane based engineers who pioneered the project.
An updated No.4 rifle, and in 7.62mm NATO.
Although this rifle has been re-engineered, many parts do interchange, but not all. All parts on these rifles are new manufacture, as no surplus parts were used.
Regards,
Wes
An updated No.4 rifle, and in 7.62mm NATO.
Although this rifle has been re-engineered, many parts do interchange, but not all. All parts on these rifles are new manufacture, as no surplus parts were used.
Regards,
Wes
Over priced, and why buy a NEW rifle with rear locking lugs?
Lots of stronger and newer bolt guns in more readily available calibres.
Don't get me wrong - I am a big LE fan and have owned a few Long Branches and a No. 5 - but there was rifle Right and Rifle Right Now. For the Rangers, the Long Branch was Rifle Right Now: over 900.000 produced (plus over 1,000,000 stamped "Property of U.S. Government" at the Stevens plant in Chicopee Falls) and trainloads of DA Ball for our Enfields, Brens and Vickers already produced. But those days are over.
Lots of stronger and newer bolt guns in more readily available calibres.
Don't get me wrong - I am a big LE fan and have owned a few Long Branches and a No. 5 - but there was rifle Right and Rifle Right Now. For the Rangers, the Long Branch was Rifle Right Now: over 900.000 produced (plus over 1,000,000 stamped "Property of U.S. Government" at the Stevens plant in Chicopee Falls) and trainloads of DA Ball for our Enfields, Brens and Vickers already produced. But those days are over.
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Per my friend who just left the Rangers, there is a considerable number of Enfields. They won't run out of them in this decade and probably not in the next..... so don't hold your breath. I don't expect any move on them changing rifles anytime soon.
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TCBF said:
I wish they would sell some of this stuff, I would gleefully kill for it, that would be some good moose medicine. Would be nice in my chopped "Bear Banger" Lee Enfield too. I have some original 215 grain C-I-L stuff, but my supplies are running low, and I wouldn't exactly want to bet my life (or my moose steaks) on ammo that old.
Planes
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DirtyDog said:
If you have DIN access, try looking around the ADM(Mat) or DLR websites. SARP II is a long-term project; don't expect shiny new weapons in the pipeline in the near horizon.
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Hi guys,
Word from on high in the rangers is that we WILL see a new rifle, but not for a few years yet. I've been a ranger for about 15 years now and have seen this rumor come and go a few times, so i'll believe it when its in my hot little hands. That'll be a sad day tho, I think we're the last military unit in the commonwealth to be issued the .303. I'll be sad to turn mine in, its a grand old weapon that outshoots a LOT of newer stuff, IMHO.
Vigilans...
Word from on high in the rangers is that we WILL see a new rifle, but not for a few years yet. I've been a ranger for about 15 years now and have seen this rumor come and go a few times, so i'll believe it when its in my hot little hands. That'll be a sad day tho, I think we're the last military unit in the commonwealth to be issued the .303. I'll be sad to turn mine in, its a grand old weapon that outshoots a LOT of newer stuff, IMHO.
Vigilans...
