restructure of Canada national security department

[Manimal]

i want to ask something else that is related to this topic. part of the US plan to protect it's citizens was the patriot act. many felt this gave the govt too much access to personal rights and freedoms. let them step over the lines a little more.
how do you feel about the govt getting more access to internal spying. i'm not sure how far they should go, but gain access to info is needed to crack down and pervent terror in this country. phone taps, email and computer spying stuff, increase raids and searches. how far should they go to protect us?

personal i don't have anything to hide, so other then the sense of violation..... but i would accept a little more control, if it gave a sense of protection

exited:
Gen Hillier speech
http://news.yahoo.com/s/cpress/20050714/ca_pr_on_na/terror_hillier

he wants more done over there, what about within?
i think he's dead on though...

 

[edadian]

I put a foriegn intelligence service under foriegn affairs because that is the standard place for such an agency. It is ussually based over seas under the cover of our diplomatic missions.

MI6 and SVR both answer to their foriegn ministers because one of the key purposes of this type of agency is political intelligence. You don't want key information on a trade negotiation lost because some agency at the defence department failed to recognise its importance or value.

I'm all for J2 getting reinforced for more counter-terror capabilities with more foriegn agents and the ability to infiltrate terror cells at home and abroad.

 

[Acorn]

I put a foriegn intelligence service under foriegn affairs because that is the standard place for such an agency. It is ussually based over seas under the cover of our diplomatic missions.

MI6 and SVR both answer to their foriegn ministers because one of the key purposes of this type of agency is political intelligence. You don't want key information on a trade negotiation lost because some agency at the defence department failed to recognise its importance or value.

I'm all for J2 getting reinforced for more counter-terror capabilities with more foriegn agents and the ability to infiltrate terror cells at home and abroad.

That is not the standard place at all, though you are correct that most countries base intelligence officers abroad under diplomatic cover. The CIA is not subordinate to the Department of State at all, for example, and the FCO's relationship with the SIS (or MI6 if you want) is loose. While it may make sense to have the foreign intelligence service report to the Minister of Foreign Affairs, the service should not be part of the Department of Foreign Affairs.

I'm not advocating that the Military take over foreign intelligence either. Such a service should be separate from domestic security intelligence (CSIS), diplomacy (FAC), law enforcement and any other department. It should report directly to Cabinet or an intelligence "clearing house" organisation like the UK's JIC.

As for J2 getting involved in what you suggest, I wouldn't recommend it at this point. In fact, I wouldn't recommend Canada getting in that game at all until a foreign intelligence service is established and functional - a long term project.

Acorn

 

[McG]

What sort of relation exists between PSEPC and CATSA?

 

[Manimal]

on CNN tonight, they were talking about different countries prospectives on terror/anti terror. France is reported and a tough spot on terrorists, they are hunted more, held without evidences for years,(for public safety) the man in the middle is a judge who will assist the hunt down and detaining the suspects. one point made on the French system is that their spy (CIA) unit, also has power to arrest within France (FBI type power) and this system is getting the job done. if the US is saying something good about France, it must be REALLY good.

 

[edadian]

Manimal
The French have been dealing with terrorism for nearly 50+ years so of course they have developed a good system. They have more experts in the field and a better reliance on human intelligence. The Italians and Germans have similar systems.

All three countries warned the US about the 9/11 cell but the people who should have listened were let go when Bush was elected. They also prevented a huge attack in Frankfurt and Brussels in August 2001 aimed at hurting the political and financial centres of the EU.

 

[James]

Sorry to bump an old thread, but this is an excellent discussion. I have a couple questions.

With all the agency names flying around, I'm having trouble figuring out who reports to who. I assumed CSIS reported to the Canadian government, but they're under the PSEPC now. So, do they still report to the government or do they now report to the PSEPC?

And I assume the CSE reports directly to the CDS since it's under DND, right?

Would someone be able to provide me with a link to J2?

Thanks.

 

[Teddy Ruxpin]

Sorry to bump an old thread, but this is an excellent discussion. I have a couple questions.

With all the agency names flying around, I'm having trouble figuring out who reports to who. I assumed CSIS reported to the Canadian government, but they're under the PSEPC now. So, do they still report to the government or do they now report to the PSEPC?

  CSIS reports to the Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness Canada.  They're not responsible to Emergency Preparedness Canada.

http://www.csis-scrs.gc.ca/en/index.asp

And I assume the CSE reports directly to the CDS since it's under DND, right?

  Nope, it's not military.  It reports to the Minister of National Defence.

http://www.cse-cst.gc.ca/

Would someone be able to provide me with a link to J2?

'Fraid not.  J2 is simply the staff branch responsible to the DCDS (and, by extension the CDS) for Intelligence.  It is headed by the Chief, Defence Intelligence - a General Officer.

 

[James]

CSIS reports to the Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness Canada.  They're not responsible to Emergency Preparedness Canada.

And that would be Anne McLelland, the Deputy Prime Minister. That raises another question. I assume for most of the information she receives, she would report it to the PM, correct? What if the information is about, lets say a possible terrorist threat. Would she report to the MND? To me that would make sense, go straight to the person who deals with defence.

Nope, it's not military.  It reports to the Minister of National Defence.

I assumed it was military because someone said it was in the DND. Good thing I asked I guess.  ;D

'Fraid not.  J2 is simply the staff branch responsible to the DCDS (and, by extension the CDS) for Intelligence.  It is headed by the Chief, Defence Intelligence - a General Officer.

I thought it was an actually organization. Thank you for clarifying.