Replacing the Subs

[PrairieFella]

I'm sure the French stuff is fine but the SK stuff seems like a total slamdunk. Does the Shortfin offer any benefit of the Korean subs?

 

[Czech_pivo]

Bingo, but it’s called the Blacksword now. And a lot of it is based on the the Sufferin Class tech (not the engine of course but pretty much everything else).

Interesting piece of news out of Holland about the Blacksword (Okra) which Holland has choosen.

“Another subject of tension, which has always appeared in the Dutch press, is the supposed refusal, on the part of the United States, to arm the new French submarines with BGM-109 Tomahawk cruise missiles. According to this thesis, otherwise poorly supported, but widely commented on Dutch social networks, Washington should refuse to work with French industrialists on this subject.”

 

[Rainbow1910]

And what’s their production timelines like when compared to the SK?
They willing to establish a maintenance facility over here for us?

The French have their own SSN, SSBN and now the Dutch SSK programs to all fulfill, alongside all of the other foreign submarine programs they are courting at the moment. I find it very hard to believe that they could take on our 12 boat order and still be able to make good on our timeline, not even considering the domestic infrastructure and agreements they'd have to make.

 

[Czech_pivo]

The French have their own SSN, SSBN and now the Dutch SSK programs to all fulfill, alongside all of the other foreign submarine programs they are courting at the moment. I find it very hard to believe that they could take on our 12 boat order and still be able to make good on our timeline, not even considering the domestic infrastructure and agreements they'd have to make.

That was what I was thinking as well.
The timelines don’t line up.
Even if they somehow magically sprinkle pixie dust on us and say, ‘viola mon ami, you can build it in Canada with our help’, it ain’t going to happen.

 

[calculus]

This suggests that the Germans might have some extra capacity, having expanded their submarine building facility in Kiel:

Type 212 CD E would not be the worst choice for Canada if we could start getting deliveries by (or before) 2035.

 

[Underway]

This suggests that the Germans might have some extra capacity, having expanded their submarine building facility in Kiel:

Type 212 CD E would not be the worst choice for Canada if we could start getting deliveries by (or before) 2035.

They do not. Most recent information was that they were going to do the build one for Germany, one for Norway and one for Canada drumbeat. And the Canadian one would be a different hull because of the range requirements.

 

[Czech_pivo]

They do not. Most recent information was that they were going to do the build one for Germany, one for Norway and one for Canada drumbeat. And the Canadian one would be a different hull because of the range requirements.

There currently is only 1 choice for us to make given our stated timelines and security/operational requirements.
Just pull the trigger and start the process so we can receive our first sub by 2032 and our second by 2034.

 

[Underway]

There currently is only 1 choice for us to make given our stated timelines and security/operational requirements.
Just pull the trigger and start the process so we can receive our first sub by 2032 and our second by 2034.

If they award a contract this year... 2030.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I'm sure the French stuff is fine but the SK stuff seems like a total slamdunk. Does the Shortfin offer any benefit of the Korean subs?

Not really
KS-III Batch 2 have 3 currently sailing and is in production. Also equipped with VLS

I think France should have after the cancellation of the Aussie contract, built one Shortfin as a training vessel and technology demonstrator. The international sub market is lucrative enough to justify that expense in the long run.

 

[Czech_pivo]

If they award a contract this year... 2030.

Good cop, bad cop, lol.



Either way, we both want to see this happen, the sooner the better. If they asked the general public to open their cheque books to help make this happen, I'd be writing a cheque.

 

[childs56]

It would not be bad for any European country to set up a repair facility for their subs and ships in Canada. So having France and or Germany wanting our business would not be a surprise.
With the amount of equipment we need to purchase overall I can see larger bid from Europe and or SK.
Time will tell.
We might see a sub purchase, along with a fighter package from .
Keep the 65 F35 and buy 100 Rafale.

 

[Czech_pivo]

It would not be bad for any European country to set up a repair facility for their subs and ships in Canada. So having France and or Germany wanting our business would not be a surprise.
With the amount of equipment we need to purchase overall I can see larger bid from Europe and or SK.
Time will tell.
We might see a sub purchase, along with a fighter package from .
Keep the 65 F35 and buy 100 Rafale.

I've been wondering if we are going to France/UK and looking for support, as well as signaling to Von der Leyen are interest in joining the EU rearmament package, that Carney needs to pull the trigger on some French kit, some UK kit and then some more kit from the EU.

Kind of hard for the French/British to take our going to them for support as serious if we are not willing to deal some major armament deals with them, like now.

 

[suffolkowner]

Svenska superubåtarna försenade - igen

Sveriges två nya ubåtar är försenade på varvet – igen, enligt Försvarsmakten. Priset måste därför förhandlas om, vilket kan göra mångmiljardprojektet ännu dyrar

www.aftonbladet.se

not looking good for Saab.

 

[Czech_pivo]

My Swedish is rusty compared to my Finnish, what are they saying?

Svenska superubåtarna försenade - igen

Sveriges två nya ubåtar är försenade på varvet – igen, enligt Försvarsmakten. Priset måste därför förhandlas om, vilket kan göra mångmiljardprojektet ännu dyrar

www.aftonbladet.se

not looking good for Saab

 

[suffolkowner]

the usual, over budget and behind schedule

My Swedish is rusty compared to my Finnish, what are they saying?

 

[Genetk44]

the usual, over budget and behind schedule

Unfortunately the A26 project has been chaotic since day 1 many years ago.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

My Swedish is rusty compared to my Finnish, what are they saying?

Since 2015, Saab has been building two new, state-of-the-art A26 submarines for the Swedish defense.

Production in Karlskrona now seems to have run into problems.

The Armed Forces briefly writes in their annual report:

“The project is delayed, which will result in a renegotiation of time and finances... Consequences of estimated delivery delays are being prepared by the Armed Forces.”

According to the Swedish Armed Forces' budget documents for 2025, the submarines would be delivered "late in the period" 2025–2030.

In the budget basis for 2026, the delivery has instead been moved to the period 2031–2035.

No comments​

The Armed Forces do not currently want to answer further questions about the submarines.

Nor does the Swedish Defence Materiel Administration (FMV), which has signed a contract with the manufacturer Saab, want to comment on the information.

– We adhere to the contract we have with the supplier until there is a change, says press manager Lukas Linné.

 

[Rainbow1910]

I have been saying for quite sometime that the Saab bid for the CPSP was never especially serious given the multitude of issues they've been having getting two far smaller variants designed, built and in service. Maybe this will finally get people to stop pushing them for Canada, although not that reality has ever stopped the average Saab fanboy.

 

[Czech_pivo]

Not sure if anyone has watched this but it’s quite interesting and very informative