Navy to replace official Heart of Oak march with ‘more inclusive’ music

[Rainbow1910]

I as well, am not a fan of imported traditions. I danced a jig they day the RCN jettisoned Trafalgar day and introduce Niobie day . I am far to nationalistic to put up with someone else's celebration.

Indeed, I feel Canada should be founding our own traditions and acting like the independent nation that we ultimately are. I've always found it somewhat amusing that many are nearly fetishistic about defending traditions that are simply imports from our time as a colony, especially when you realize how many Canadian were so unhappy about a lot of these "traditions" and methods back from the Mainguy Report and earlier. It is one thing to honour where we came from however, I see little point in wallowing around in somebody else's traditions and distinctions in perpetuity.

 

[FJAG]

Indeed, I feel Canada should be founding our own traditions and acting like the independent nation that we ultimately are. I've always found it somewhat amusing that many are nearly fetishistic about defending traditions that are simply imports from our time as a colony, especially when you realize how many Canadian were so unhappy about a lot of these "traditions" and methods back from the Mainguy Report and earlier. It is one thing to honour where we came from however, I see little point in wallowing around in somebody else's traditions and distinctions in perpetuity.

Every tradition has a first day. I see nothing wrong with having new traditions take hold.

On the other hand, to simply root out and toss traditions aside because they come from an earlier era (and isn't that what tradition are) and have an orgy of backroom boys creating new ones because they want to redefine who we are as a nation, is not merely stupid but counterproductive. It creates unnecessary resentment.

There is an equal amount of fetishism by small groups of people who simply want to have everyone accept their vision of what is right and proper and who believe that everyone should dance to their change agenda. I hate the term "woke," but this rush to marginalize traditions and anything that doesn't fit their view of things is "wokeism" and should be resisted.

Traditions are organic. They grow out of day-to-day experiences. If we truly are a nation with an individual identity (and I believe that Canada is) then new traditions will grow over time and replace the ones that no longer define us.

 

[dapaterson]

Traditions are organic. They grow out of day-to-day experiences. If we truly are a nation with an individual identity (and I believe that Canada is) then new traditions will grow over time and replace the ones that no longer define us.

And then the old farts willfully and deliberately undermine the Army commander to get their way.

 

[daftandbarmy]

And then the old farts willfully and deliberately undermine the Army commander to get their way.

1812 pin enters the chat

Pardon Our Interruption...

 

[FJAG]

And then the old farts willfully and deliberately undermine the Army commander to get their way.

This reminds me of a number of projects I did with First Nations. If Chief and Council don't sit down and work out a consensus with the elders before foisting a new plan on the people then it's their own fault when the shit hits the fan.

Some things get done by fiat but when it comes to tradition - it's consensus all the way or it's fuhgeddaboutit.

 

[btrudy]

Traditions are organic. They grow out of day-to-day experiences. If we truly are a nation with an individual identity (and I believe that Canada is) then new traditions will grow over time and replace the ones that no longer define us.

Some traditions could be considered at least somewhat organic (e.g. 1000 soup). But stuff like "The RCN's official march past" is the opposite of that. Not only was the establishment of it as the march past not organic (since we simply blindly copied what the Brits had), the fact that we already have an official march past inhibits any chance for any organic tradition to develop; we've already got one, there's no room for a new one to be adopted organically.

 

[The Bread Guy]

... we've already got one, there's no room for a new one to be adopted organically.

And it will be a delicate juggle, as @FJAG summed up, balancing the need for new and the lack of need to jettison the old just because it's old. Inertia also applies to a train already rolling, not just getting a still train moving.

 

[btrudy]

And it will be a delicate juggle, as @FJAG summed up, balancing the need for new and the lack of need to jettison the old just because it's old. Inertia also applies to a train already rolling, not just getting a still train moving.

This is an unreasonable way to characterize it. It's not being jettisoned "because it's old". It's being jettisoned because the lyrics, and the actions those lyrics are celebrating, are no longer in line with the RNC and the CAF's values and ethos.

Beating the French to ensure the continued colonization the Colonization of half the world (and the brutal oppression that occurred as a result, including the British Empire's whole-hearted involvement in the trans-Atlantic slave trade) is not something that we should be lauding.

 

[dapaterson]

The RCN made Haydn and Art admirals. They perhaps black the self awareness to improve.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Just a few thoughts here:

(1) Personally, I am not married to the Heart of Oaks, and feel indifferently whether it stays or goes;
(2) The main problem some people see with it, other than the fact that it is British originally, relates to references to men/lads/boys ... and possibly the Battle of the Plains of Abraham; There seems to be problems with the lyrics of some of the suggested replacement (though no one has yet proposed "What Should We Do With All the Drunken Sailors");
(3) A good march should have music that is at the appropriate tempo to accompany marching (so for the RCN, 110 times a minute), be rousing to help with the platitude that is marching and somehow induces images of the element it is for;

Given the above, I suggest that the next march should have no associated lyrics, so problems never arise in the future with the damn thing.

And it only leads me to one last question: Who will be Canada's Sousa?

 

[FSTO]

eating the French to ensure the continued colonization the Colonization of half the world (and the brutal oppression that occurred as a result, including the British Empire's whole-hearted involvement in the trans-Atlantic slave trade) is not something that we should be lauding.

So nothing about the UK’s come to Jesus moment and the RN’s whole hearted (and lonely) campaign to stamp out the trans Atlantic slave trade?

 

[btrudy]

So nothing about the UK’s come to Jesus moment and the RN’s whole hearted (and lonely) campaign to stamp out the trans Atlantic slave trade?

Hey, if the song was about that I'd far less opposed to it (still slightly opposed on the basis that, you know, it has nothing to do with Canada or the Royal Canadian Navy, and that our official march should actually be about US).

It's not.

 

[FSTO]

Hey, if the song was about that I'd far less opposed to it (still slightly opposed on the basis that, you know, it has nothing to do with Canada or the Royal Canadian Navy).

It's not.

The transfer of New France to the British Empire has nothing to do with Canada? Alrighty then.

Look I’m fine with the tune, we can ditch the lyric's because very few know them anyway.

 

[JLB50]

And while we’re at it, perhaps we can pay homage to those in service south of our border. Let’s all sing…Anchors Aweigh, my boys…

 

[Furniture]

I as well, am not a fan of imported traditions. I danced a jig they day the RCN jettisoned Trafalgar day and introduce Niobie day . I am far to nationalistic to put up with someone else's celebration.

I missed this earlier, but saw it quoted today and wanted to address it. Niobe Day is exactly the wrong way to make traditions.

What is the date of Niobe Day? Why was the RCN founded on that day? Who gave us the ship the day is named after?

Essentially, we are now attempting to pretend that 21 October was magically selected as a random date on the calendar, to magically receive a ship from nowhere, due to the kindness of strangers... The sole reason the RCN came into being on 21 October 1910 was because of the battle of Trafalgar. We literally became a navy because dad gave us the keys to a beater and said "try to not smash it up too much", but now we want to pretend we pulled ourselves up by the boot straps. The RCN is Donald Trump pretending he's a self made man.

Niobe day is a sad shadow of Trafalgar day, masquerading as it's own thing. If we wanted our own day, we should have made it a completely Canadian day, not try to poorly paste it over the celebration of a battle fought 62 years before Canada existed as a country.

 

[btrudy]

The transfer of New France to the British Empire has nothing to do with Canada? Alrighty then.

Eh. Even then, it's still something being done to Canada, and not something Canada is doing.

We deserve our own traditions. Songs about our actions. Not the UK's leftovers and hand-me-downs.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Just a few thoughts here:

(1) Personally, I am not married to the Heart of Oaks, and feel indifferently whether it stays or goes;
(2) The main problem some people see with it, other than the fact that it is British originally, relates to references to men/lads/boys ... and possibly the Battle of the Plains of Abraham; There seems to be problems with the lyrics of some of the suggested replacement (though no one has yet proposed "What Should We Do With All the Drunken Sailors");
(3) A good march should have music that is at the appropriate tempo to accompany marching (so for the RCN, 110 times a minute), be rousing to help with the platitude that is marching and somehow induces images of the element it is for;

Given the above, I suggest that the next march should have no associated lyrics, so problems never arise in the future with the damn thing.

And it only leads me to one last question: Who will be Canada's Sousa?

Or just wait until all the hoo hah blows over, which it undoubtedly will in a month or so ...

 

[Rainbow1910]

I missed this earlier, but saw it quoted today and wanted to address it. Niobe Day is exactly the wrong way to make traditions.

What is the date of Niobe Day? Why was the RCN founded on that day? Who gave us the ship the day is named after?

Essentially, we are now attempting to pretend that 21 October was magically selected as a random date on the calendar, to magically receive a ship from nowhere, due to the kindness of strangers... The sole reason the RCN came into being on 21 October 1910 was because of the battle of Trafalgar. We literally became a navy because dad gave us the keys to a beater and said "try to not smash it up too much", but now we want to pretend we pulled ourselves up by the boot straps. The RCN is Donald Trump pretending he's a self made man.

Niobe day is a sad shadow of Trafalgar day, masquerading as it's own thing. If we wanted our own day, we should have made it a completely Canadian day, not try to poorly paste it over the celebration of a battle fought 62 years before Canada existed as a country.

I think it's a bit patronizing to say "Dad gave us the keys" when we bought the damn car ourselves after years of arguing with them about being permitted to even entertain the idea being allowed to drive in the first place. Niobe Day was chosen because it was the day we received our first warship, effectively the first step of a nascent Navy onto the world stage. Founding a Navy on paper matters little if the Navy doesn't have a single warship. Such an event was aligned with Trafalgar Day at the time due to the significance within Britain and by extension, Canada. Sharing the day doesn't cheapen or invalidate the occasion, just like it wouldn't if the founding date of the force overlapped with Trafalgar Day. The British don't have wholesale claim to a date on a calendar.

Canada did pull itself up by the boot straps with its efforts for a Navy of its own, fighting back against parties both domestically and abroad who did not want us founding such a force. The RCN was not a privileged organization at any time throughout its existence, to try and claim otherwise is entirely detached from history and reality.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Its a song, who cares. It shouldn't be consuming so much our bandwidth right now. I move we rid our selves of bands and force transfer them into sea going occupations. Bands are a frivolous use of resources and should be the first things cut in times of austerity.

We have hulls without sailors, besides operational commitments our crewing issues and material state should be the almost sole focus of the RCN at this moment.

 

[FJAG]

And it only leads me to one last question: Who will be Canada's Sousa?

I was going to suggest Bobby Gimby but its entirely too late.