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Minister of Defence

Should any politician serving as Minster of Defence, have served in the Armed Forces


  • Total voters
    113
  • Poll closed .
(And if you read between the lines, check my profile, you can probably figure out that, yes LCol O'Conner was my Commanding Officer. I am biased. I know the man. I won't share my opinions here since it is not the proper forum. I will back a fellow tanker because that is what we do.

Well, I'm an officer and a tanker and I have nothing but distain for some of the things our new Minister has touted.  He has commented extensively in the press upon issues that he obviously has no knowledge of or background on and has said some stunningly stupid things as a result.  O'Connor has been touted in the media as being the architect of the Conservative's defence policy, which still includes such gems as locating four "new" infantry battalions in very isolated Air Force Bases.  In fact, he confirmed that this politically-motivated idea was still in vogue when he visited Edmonton last week.

I have no idea how O'Connor was as a General (although I have heard others' opinions).  I do know, though, that he has said some monumentally idiotic things as Defence critic and that I am still highly skeptical of his (and by extension the Conservatives') more exotic ideas on defence.  Check my pre-Christmas posts to learn why...

TR
 
Michael is quite right in this observation. IMHO, what the CF really needs from its MND, more than anything else, is that he be an effective and respected politician, who can work the halls of power in which DND is just one player, (and not the biggest one) to get what we require, be it well defined and realistic missions, better gear or improved personnel benefits. That will be the true test of any MND. To me, the MND's party affiliation or past experience are really meaningless as long as he meets those criteria. The CDS and his staff are the military experts, and let no MND forget that.

Cheers
 
TCBF said:
Mayor Mel had quite a flair for the dramatic.  I was a bit surprised the military went along though.  Are they legally required to abide by a request for assistance or is there room for discussion?"

- If the province makes a formal request under the Aid To Civil Power (now called something else, I believe) the guvmint cannot say NO.  Now, what form that assistance takes...

This probably merits a separate thread all on its own, but anyway...


I was the A/G3 of LFCA when the Southern Ontario snow emergency happened. (I say Southern Ontario because we were also providing assistance in Chatham-Kent and in the Kingston area.) While 32 CBG provided the tactical HQ for the operation in Toronto, and provided most of the shovel manpower, it was not alone. In the early stages of the operation, several Bisons from the RCD were positioned in downtown fire/EMS stations to cover runs into areas where the streets had not been cleared. Initially, as far as we could tell, this combined Reg/Res response was adequate. There was no request for further military aid sent to us via the correct and normal channels for unarmed assistance (normally initiated through our standing relationship with Emergency Measures Ontario: EPC had no role whatsoever). Comd LFCA had no intent to deploy the IRU as there was no assessed need, although as an SOP we had alerted 2 CMBG. The city seemed to be managing well, deploying approximately 800 pieces of municipal snowclearance machinery, as well as contracted equipment. Snow was indeed very deep in some streets (I did a recce) but things did not seem disastrous.

Unforunately, Mayor Lastman, for reasons best known only to him, became very worried that the continuing snowfall would create a humanitarian emergency. Instead of going to EMO as he should have done, he appears to have approached then-MND Eggleton directly, on political channels. (Eggleton was a former Mayor, whose Toronto riding offce kept a very active interest in military events, as anybody in LFCAHQ from those days can attest...). Through a process that I do not pretend to understand, the CDS called Comd LFCA and ordered him to deploy the IRU. Despite our Comd's representation that this would be unnecessary, the CDS insisted.

As a result, the RCD (reinforced by a task force drawn from 2 CER) deployed on an eight hour road move through winter conditions from Pet to Toronto. We quartered them at the old Downsview site (which fortunately had not yet been demolished), and at Fort York Armoury. While the RCD were unfortunately very under-employed, the 2 CER task force was assigned in support of Tornonto Works and Emergency Services to conduct heavy snow clearance, which they did to the best of  their ability.

Once the snow"emergency" abated, LFCA HQ tried to get NDHQ permission to redeploy the 2 CMBG units back to Pet, but we were stymied by inexplicable foot dragging that kept the troops sitting idle, even though the snow was actually melting! This was probably one of the most frustrating parts of the entire operation.

Keep in mind that all this time, the Province of  Ontario had access to literally hundreds of pieces of provincial, municipal and contractor snow clearance machinery that could have been deployed to assist the City. To the best of my recollection, this never happened and EMO was (through no fault of their own) never significantly involved. Mayor Mel did an end-run on the whole system that was (and is) carefully set up to provide checks and balances on CF involvement in civil emergencies.

Was the CF mandated to respond? Under Canadian statutes and CF practices at the time, we were required to respond to requests for aid to civil power (this op was NOT an ACP op) made by the Solicitor General of a Province to the Govt of Canada. We were certainly expected (if not required) to respond to humanitarian emergency assistance requests, when these were made through the correct and well-proven EMO-LFCA channels, on behalf of  the Provincial Govt. (Not, I hasten to add, any municipal govt by itself, unless a clear and imminent "life and limb" threat could be proven. This, IMHO, never existed.) The assistance of municipal govts is the job of the provincial govt, until they reach the point at which they can no longer handle it. Then, they turn to us. This point was never, ever reached in the case of Toronto because, except for the limited initial response, the Province was not engaged in the decision to deploy increased CF forces into Toronto.

Although all the troops did great work and the people of Toronto were grateful, the process was very wrong. In a widespread emergency in which we were spread thin, it could have been disastrous. I hope we (the CF and the Fed Govt) have learned our lessons.

Cheers.
 
pbi said:
Unforunately, Mayor Lastman, for reasons best known only to him, became very worried that the continuing snowfall would create a humanitarian emergency. Instead of going to EMO as he should have done, he appears to have approached then-MND Eggleton directly, on political channels. (Eggleton was a former Mayor, whose Toronto riding offce kept a very active interest in military events, as anybody in LFCAHQ from those days can attest...). Through a process that I do not pretend to understand, the CDS called Comd LFCA and ordered him to deploy the IRU. Despite our Comd's representation that this would be unnecessary, the CDS insisted.


Cheers.

pbi

Thanks for shedding light on the issue, Due to the fact that after I retired I've been trying to format brain cells and could not recall all the details...............
It seems to me that an internal investigation was conducted within the office of the MND shortly after this debacle. (of course not much of which was made public) I don't believe we will ever see a city mayor having access to military resources (or political leverage) at that level again.

Duey,
Those pockets....................after all these years I thought the design was to hold a couple of packs of smokes and a lighter  ;D    mags eh? go figure  :eek:
 
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