Mandatory COVID-19 Vaccinations for the Federal Public Service and RCMP

[HiTechComms]

Self culling as in not getting the shots and getting fired.

Gotcha..

People will do people things. Jahova's refuse blood transfusions.

I guess I fall into self culling if I join the Military? I mean war and all? shrug
Again I do ride Motorcycles as well.

 

[Remius]

Gotcha..

People will do people things. Jahova's refuse blood transfusions.

I guess I fall into self culling if I join the Military? I mean war and all? shrug
Again I do ride Motorcycles as well.

You missed the point about self culling in respect to force reduction. That is what he meant.

 

[HiTechComms]

Risk versus reward.

The potential side effects are minor for the vast vast vast majority. Even those who get COVID once vaccinated are unlikely (very very very unlikely) to have significant issues from it.
As opposed to those who have gotten COVID or who have not and remain unvaccinated.
US Death toll is over 700k now, that's a decent sized Mathusian Check...

I agree. Risk Vs Reward. The question is whether the government or the individual should make the decision with in the Legal framework of the country. Not sure why USA is always the country everyone compares too, I mean its only fair we use Sweden as an example as well.

I have no problem getting the vaccine. Then again I also have and Advanced Directive. I have very little skin in the game myself.

 

[mariomike]

I have no problem getting the vaccine.

Good.

In the pioneer days, a man could go his own way. But, these days you've got to play ball. Especially in the army.

 

[Kilted]

One parade a month is all it takes to stay in. I'm sure that if there are any Class A 'dissenters' they will be able to manage that.

Not if being vaccinated is a requirement to enter the building and sign in. The concept of "get vaccinated or get out" shouldn't be too much different for the reserves.

There might be some difficulty in tracking in some places, CIC and Canadian Rangers for example.

The other question is how long will this vaccine mandate last? If someone were to go sub-reserves and try and get back in just shy of five years from now to maintain their qualifications, would they still need it at that point?

 

[Navy_Pete]

You missed the point about self culling in respect to force reduction. That is what he meant.

And specifically, the people that are semi-competent enough to not get fired, but not usually a joy to work with. Hard to work on technical issues with people operating on Facebook memes and misinformation vice OQE (for example in the form of multiple double blind studies proving vaccine efficacy).

Had a previous supervisor like that and it was a nightmare; they were either a total cowboy disregarding basic practices/safety procedures or wouldn't change their mind when you presented actual evidence/policies/procedures to do something differently. Being an anti-vaxx for them was a feature, not a bug.

Would rather have an empty billet than have someone there that is just not-shit-enough to get fired, but otherwise mobile ballast that makes actual progress harder, and at least you can try and fill an empty billet with a non-oxygen thief.

I don't wish any actual harm on anti-vaxxers, but in this case they are statistically much more likely to get sick and die, which would just be a Darwin award, but they can also kill medically vulnerable people that can't get vaccinated, so my empathy for them is pretty low.

 

[Kilted]

People will do people things. Jahova's refuse blood transfusions.

They also don't serve in the military.

 

[Brad Sallows]

So I hear this arguement and please, please, tell me which of the many Govt's we have in Canada, and around the world, have gained some sort of power they didn't have before covid. I mean just name one specific....

The regional travel bans in BC were a novelty, and by no means were legal opinions wholly on the government side. But the bans were done, and no-one challenged them. So the boundary - a fuzzy one to begin with - has moved.

 

[crypto_fan]

The regional travel bans in BC were a novelty, and by no means were legal opinions wholly on the government side. But the bans were done, and no-one challenged them. So the boundary - a fuzzy one to begin with - has moved.

But it is not permanent power. Emergency situations call for drastic measures. Why there are state of emergency rules. Those are now lifted and people can travel. So still not sure what power they got they didn't have before.

 

[Brad Sallows]

The question of whether they had the power was not settled. And I'm skeptical that having pushed a boundary once, government won't push it again, with less of an excuse.

 

[lenaitch]

My whole devils advocate bit is that the government is taking on a unknown liability of this medicine. Why take the risk?

Drug and vaccine authorizations for COVID-19: Authorized drugs, vaccines and expanded indications - Canada.ca

Drugs that have been authorized by Health Canada for use in relation to the COVID-19 pandemic

www.canada.ca

If there are problems found the government will just get sued. Cannot get sued if you don't mandate and simply say well is voluntary. There have been many incidents of meds getting pulled and major lawsuits.

Moderna advisory in Ontario

Ontario recommends Pfizer shots instead of Moderna for young adults over possible heart risks

'I know that this news may make some people nervous.... But the benefits of vaccination continue to significantly outweigh the risks of COVID-19'

nationalpost.com

An imperfect comparison, but back in the early '70s, governments started mandating seat belt use in vehicles. Obviously, there was no opportunity for clinical trials, just academic research and experience from other jurisdictions. Surviving a collision that likely previously made you dead, often resulted in injury, sometimes serious, particularly when it was just lap belts. But not dead. I don't recall anyone even trying to hold the State liable, let alone successfully.

I would think the government would face greater liability if they didn't mandate, particularly as it relates to healthcare and long-term care institutions. My 100-year-old father-in-law is in long-term care, and I don't support his contacts, whom he has virtually no choice interacting with, deciding their own terms of employment. There is also the issue of international travel and transportation. We don't live on an island. If we left our airlines, border controls, international commercial traffic, etc. as a free-for-all, while other countries imposed rules, where would our economy be?

 

[KevinB]

The question of whether they had the power was not settled. And I'm skeptical that having pushed a boundary once, government won't push it again, with less of an excuse.

PET with the FLQ Crisis - a lot of places abused the powers they had - I'm mean I'm all for kicking hippies to the curb - but those powers went away - and the issues created enough pushback that the Act was changed because of that -- that was 51 years ago though - I was a wee baby - and I no longer know if the populace would complain.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

and if a long term issue from the vaccine pops up in 7-10 years from now, will those same people making the rules, be willing to share the blame? The companies insured that they can't be held responsible, so if something does happen, it will be the levels of government that mandated it that will be held responsible.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

I've always said there's a chance that 10 years from now a lot of us could have an extra hand growing out of our foreheads.....but RIGHT NOW the evidence suggests the vaccine is the right thing to do for humanity.

 

[mariomike]

PET with the FLQ Crisis - a lot of places abused the powers they had - I'm mean I'm all for kicking hippies to the curb - but those powers went away - and the issues created enough pushback that the Act was changed because of that -- that was 51 years ago though - I was a wee baby - and I no longer know if the populace would complain.

Metro Toronto with Operation Soap - the largest mass arrest in Canada since the FLQ Crisis.

The hippies and draft dodgers were kicked out of Yorkville, Rochdale and the Yonge St. Strip.

Some referred to it as "urban renewal".

Urban renewal - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[KevinB]

Metro Toronto with Operation Soap - the largest mass arrest in Canada since the FLQ Crisis.

Op Soap had the exact reverse outcome of what was intended by Toronto

The hippies and draft dodgers were kicked out of Yorkville, Rochdale and the Yonge St. Strip.

Some referred to it as "urban renewal".

LOL

 

[MilEME09]

and if a long term issue from the vaccine pops up in 7-10 years from now, will those same people making the rules, be willing to share the blame? The companies insured that they can't be held responsible, so if something does happen, it will be the levels of government that mandated it that will be held responsible.

Given that the vaccine has left the body after 72 hours(like most vaccines), and that studies are starting to show a drop in antibodies after 8 months, I doubt we will see long term side effects of the vaccine. While people can claim the covid 19 vaccine is experimental, it is anything but now. Covid vaccines have the largest data set of any vaccine in human history, mRNA technology has been around for a couple decades now, and while covid 19 is new, Corona viruses are not so they aren't starting from scratch.

 

[Quirky]

and if a long term issue from the vaccine pops up in 7-10 years from now, will those same people making the rules, be willing to share the blame? The companies insured that they can't be held responsible, so if something does happen, it will be the levels of government that mandated it that will be held responsible.

Out of all the crap people put in their mouth on a daily basis without question and hesitation, being concerned about a tested and proven vaccine is the ultimate sign of stupidity.

 

[mariomike]

An imperfect comparison, but back in the early '70s, governments started mandating seat belt use in vehicles. Obviously, there was no opportunity for clinical trials, just academic research and experience from other jurisdictions. Surviving a collision that likely previously made you dead, often resulted in injury, sometimes serious, particularly when it was just lap belts. But not dead. I don't recall anyone even trying to hold the State liable, let alone successfully.

"They took away our Freedom!"
Wait till they tell them they can't smoke in bars and restaurants any more.

1980s news clips on seatbelt mandates resurface amid vaccine debate

‘If you don’t want to wear it, that’s your choice!’ a seatbelt refuser said in the 1980s, in a refrain that is eerily familiar in the age of Covid

www.independent.co.uk

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Out of all the crap people put in their mouth on a daily basis without question and hesitation, being concerned about a tested and proven vaccine is the ultimate sign of stupidity.

None of us have any idea about the long term benefits or side effects of this vaccine and clearly the manufacturer didn't either, otherwise they wouldn't have demanded legal protection in case something happens. There is a particular treatment for women that was promoted years ago by the medical profession that only showed up with bad side effect 30 years later. Public health does not care about the individual, just the masses, so they will promote something even if a percentage of the population suffers, if there is a benefit to the majority.