CAN Secur/Int Committee: Time to Fix RCMP Federal Policing pgm

[The Bread Guy]

This out this week ....

Fix the RCMP or create a new federal force, parliamentarians tell government

Report by members of the National Security and Intelligence Committee of Parliamentarians warns RCMP isn’t up to the task of protecting national security

www.theglobeandmail.com

Ottawa 'must act' to overhaul RCMP's federal policing program, committee report says

A national security watchdog says Ottawa must drive major changes to the RCMP's federal policing program to ensure Canadians are protected from the most serious threats.

www.ctvnews.ca

RCMP ‘cannot function’ effectively on national security threats: committee | Globalnews.ca

Contract policing in the provinces has put pressure on the Mounties ability to effectively handle national security and federal policing roles, parliamentary committee finds.

globalnews.ca

Full report in English attached - here's the summary (highlights mine)

 

[Booter]

Get ‘em out! Fed policing here’s the door!

 

[brihard]

This out this week ....

Fix the RCMP or create a new federal force, parliamentarians tell government

Report by members of the National Security and Intelligence Committee of Parliamentarians warns RCMP isn’t up to the task of protecting national security

www.theglobeandmail.com

Ottawa 'must act' to overhaul RCMP's federal policing program, committee report says

A national security watchdog says Ottawa must drive major changes to the RCMP's federal policing program to ensure Canadians are protected from the most serious threats.

www.ctvnews.ca

RCMP ‘cannot function’ effectively on national security threats: committee | Globalnews.ca

Contract policing in the provinces has put pressure on the Mounties ability to effectively handle national security and federal policing roles, parliamentary committee finds.

globalnews.ca

Full report in English attached - here's the summary (highlights mine)
View attachment 81168

An interesting and timely review. The RCMP as one organization does have an absurd span of roles and jurisdictional responsibilities. I don’t know that any other police force in the world has such wide-spanning mandates. They’re constantly pulled in too many directions, with too few officers and employees to do the work- and if you’re already underwater on operations, training and professional development is bound to suffer. Fed policing in particular seems to be at the mercy of contract policing jurisdictions allowing RCMP members to get posted out of contract into federal spots. I have to think too that it’s harder to recruit good applicants to federal specialties when anyone who signs on the line is rolling the dice on potentially going to Pelican Narrows or Tuktoyaktuk for several years before possibly having a chance to get into federal work. While there’s a lot to be said for that path, and for relying on experienced police officers, it’s inevitable that that will impact recruiting- especially if the fed stream cannot control the flow of members into their program from contract.

For my money, I’d guess that on a 10-20 year time frame we see the federal government deliberately and actively work to unwind RCMP contract policing and leave it to the provinces to police themselves.

 

[quadrapiper]

An interesting and timely review. The RCMP as one organization does have an absurd span of roles and jurisdictional responsibilities. I don’t know that any other police force in the world has such wide-spanning mandates. They’re constantly pulled in too many directions, with too few officers and employees to do the work- and if you’re already underwater on operations, training and professional development is bound to suffer. Fed policing in particular seems to be at the mercy of contract policing jurisdictions allowing RCMP members to get posted out of contract into federal spots. I have to think too that it’s harder to recruit good applicants to federal specialties when anyone who signs on the line is rolling the dice on potentially going to Pelican Narrows or Tuktoyaktuk for several years before possibly having a chance to get into federal work. While there’s a lot to be said for that path, and for relying on experienced police officers, it’s inevitable that that will impact recruiting- especially if the fed stream cannot control the flow of members into their program from contract.

For my money, I’d guess that on a 10-20 year time frame we see the federal government deliberately and actively work to unwind RCMP contract policing and leave it to the provinces to police themselves.

Minimally, putting a cap on community size?

Seems like it should be possible to reconcile (and perhaps even justify) handling Pelican Narrows' and national police needs with the same agency, unlike e.g., major urban centres' enormous staffing requirements.

 

[RangerRay]

An interesting and timely review. The RCMP as one organization does have an absurd span of roles and jurisdictional responsibilities. I don’t know that any other police force in the world has such wide-spanning mandates. They’re constantly pulled in too many directions, with too few officers and employees to do the work- and if you’re already underwater on operations, training and professional development is bound to suffer. Fed policing in particular seems to be at the mercy of contract policing jurisdictions allowing RCMP members to get posted out of contract into federal spots. I have to think too that it’s harder to recruit good applicants to federal specialties when anyone who signs on the line is rolling the dice on potentially going to Pelican Narrows or Tuktoyaktuk for several years before possibly having a chance to get into federal work. While there’s a lot to be said for that path, and for relying on experienced police officers, it’s inevitable that that will impact recruiting- especially if the fed stream cannot control the flow of members into their program from contract.

For my money, I’d guess that on a 10-20 year time frame we see the federal government deliberately and actively work to unwind RCMP contract policing and leave it to the provinces to police themselves.

Do you think it’s possible that the government may raise a stand-alone “FBI North” agency to deal with federal and national security policing, and leave the RCMP with contract policing?

 

[Remius]

From an « easy » button point of view (the federal government loves the easy button) it would be easier to divest yourself of a function and let others handle it, redirect the savings to what remains than it would be to create what would be two new entities. The provinces each taking responsibility for their own policing and the federal side beefing up its capabilities with what is already in place for that.

 

[brihard]

Do you think it’s possible that the government may raise a stand-alone “FBI North” agency to deal with federal and national security policing, and leave the RCMP with contract policing?

Could they spin off a new agency? I suppose so, though it would really be a severing and re-labeling of existing federal policing. Kind of like when the RCMP Security Service became CSIS.

But I think @Remius is right. The easier way would simply be to tell the provinces that the provincial policing contracts won’t be renewed, and attrit away the non-federal parts of the organization.

 

[FSTO]

Could they spin off a new agency? I suppose so, though it would really be a severing and re-labeling of existing federal policing. Kind of like when the RCMP Security Service became CSIS.

But I think @Remius is right. The easier way would simply be to tell the provinces that the provincial policing contracts won’t be renewed, and attrit away the non-federal parts of the organization.

Wasn’t the current Premier of Alberta roasted from hither and yon by suggesting that particular COA?

 

[Halifax Tar]

From an « easy » button point of view (the federal government loves the easy button) it would be easier to divest yourself of a function and let others handle it, redirect the savings to what remains than it would be to create what would be two new entities. The provinces each taking responsibility for their own policing and the federal side beefing up its capabilities with what is already in place for that.

I think you're right. I think we've reached a point where people aren't willing to foot the bill for regions they have no vested interest in or don't belong to.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

Wasn’t the current Premier of Alberta roasted from hither and yon by suggesting that particular COA?

Yes, but that is because she is pretty much an Albertan version of Jacques Parizeau: even if the suggestion makes sense, it's automatically bad because " 'berta stronger on its own..."

 

[lenaitch]

Do you think it’s possible that the government may raise a stand-alone “FBI North” agency to deal with federal and national security policing, and leave the RCMP with contract policing?

I suppose it could be done, but the differences in legal structure would make it an imperfect comparison. Criminal law in the US is state-based. The FBI enforces federal laws. There is also an alphabet soup of other federal agencies that have their own responsibilities.

The administration of justice is a provincial responsibility. Outside of national security matters and those statutes that specifically empower the RCMP, there is no 'federal fraud' and 'provincial' fraud. There will still be a need for agreements to counter the 'crime knows no boundaries' aspect.

The only other police service that comes to mind that is, or was, even close, is London Met. They still have responsibilities outside of their municipal mandate, such as Royal/VIP security, colonial assistance, etc. In days gone by, they used to respond to major crime all over the UK.

Then there are the federal territories . . .

 

[dapaterson]

The difference between federal fraud and provincial fraud is the difference between the sponsorship scandal and the greenbelt scandal

 

[RangerRay]

A couple of things I see being possible, but not insurmountable issues:

Right now, provinces and municipalities get a “subsidy”, if you can call it that, for contracting with the RCMP. If that funding continues after contract policing ends, would that defeat the purpose of the RCMP divesting itself of contract policing, rather than using that funding for federal policing?

What of provinces and municipalities that have no desire to stand up their own agencies, especially because of this funding? Tough luck?

And what of the Territories? Would the RCMP continue to provide daily policing there if they divest contract policing elsewhere?

 

[Kirkhill]

The difference between federal fraud and provincial fraud is the difference between the sponsorship scandal and the greenbelt scandal

You fail to grasp the free market advantages of competition.

My coppers are better than your coppers..

 

[Kirkhill]

An interesting and timely review. The RCMP as one organization does have an absurd span of roles and jurisdictional responsibilities. I don’t know that any other police force in the world has such wide-spanning mandates. They’re constantly pulled in too many directions, with too few officers and employees to do the work- and if you’re already underwater on operations, training and professional development is bound to suffer. Fed policing in particular seems to be at the mercy of contract policing jurisdictions allowing RCMP members to get posted out of contract into federal spots. I have to think too that it’s harder to recruit good applicants to federal specialties when anyone who signs on the line is rolling the dice on potentially going to Pelican Narrows or Tuktoyaktuk for several years before possibly having a chance to get into federal work. While there’s a lot to be said for that path, and for relying on experienced police officers, it’s inevitable that that will impact recruiting- especially if the fed stream cannot control the flow of members into their program from contract.

For my money, I’d guess that on a 10-20 year time frame we see the federal government deliberately and actively work to unwind RCMP contract policing and leave it to the provinces to police themselves.

You mean make the provinces responsible for the maintenance of Peace, Order and Good Governance within their own territories?

But might that not lead to the provinces creating their own reserve forces for surge capacity when public order is threatened?

Auxiliary constables or reserve constables (reserve constable has a different definition in British Columbia)[1] are unpaid citizens in Canada who volunteer their time and skills to a police force. They are uniformed, unarmed members who perform a similar role to their UK counterparts in the Special Constabulary. Their main function is to supplement the police force with additional manpower, with duties varying by appointment, geographical location and the needs of the specific detachment/department.

In Canada, many police forces utilize the services of auxiliary constables. Under various provincial policing legislations and the Royal Canadian Mounted Police Act, the role of auxiliary constable is to assist regular, or sworn, police constables in the execution of their duties, as well as to provide assistance in community policing.

Auxiliary constables in Canada wear uniforms similar to regular force constables. However, most wear the word "auxiliary" on a rocker panel under the force's crest on each arm, and in some cases, wear a red and black checkered head band on their service caps to distinguish them from full-time police. Also, auxiliary constables are usually unarmed, but are trained in firearms. They may, depending on legislation and policies, carry a baton and handcuffs while on duty.

Auxiliary officers are often called upon to assist in such things as large-scale searches for missing persons, to provide crowd control at large-scale events, and often accompany regular force police officers on daily patrols.

Auxiliary police - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Auxiliary constable - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[lenaitch]

You mean make the provinces responsible for the maintenance of Peace, Order and Good Governance within their own territories?

But might that not lead to the provinces creating their own reserve forces for surge capacity when public order is threatened?

Auxiliary police - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Auxiliary constable - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

No need to invoke the so-called 'emergency authority under Sec.91. The provinces are responsible for law enforcement ('administration of justice'). How they choose to do it is up to them.

Under an over-simple math calculation, 500 RCMP members could be replaced by 500 provincial and/or municipal police officers. If surge capacity is needed, they could be redeployed from within or even from another province with a little bit of legislative gymnastics.

The concept of reserve or auxiliary police varies across the country. Most decent-sized police service have them. They are extremely inexpensive to maintain. In most cases in Ontario, they are fully trained and can be designated with the powers of a police officer almost at a moment's notice.

Or I'm completely missing what you are trying to say.

 

[Kirkhill]

No need to invoke the so-called 'emergency authority under Sec.91. The provinces are responsible for law enforcement ('administration of justice'). How they choose to do it is up to them.

Under an over-simple math calculation, 500 RCMP members could be replaced by 500 provincial and/or municipal police officers. If surge capacity is needed, they could be redeployed from within or even from another province with a little bit of legislative gymnastics.

The concept of reserve or auxiliary police varies across the country. Most decent-sized police service have them. They are extremely inexpensive to maintain. In most cases in Ontario, they are fully trained and can be designated with the powers of a police officer almost at a moment's notice.

Or I'm completely missing what you are trying to say.

Sometimes I am overly obscure for my own good. My comment was a snide reference to the possibility / need for a body of civic minded individuals willing to put on a uniform to support their government, even if it is just by showing up and following the dictum that "they also serve who only stand and wait."

Some folks would call that a reserve, other people might be inclined to call it a militia or even a national guard. Civil or military, humanitarian or kinetic duties, every government, to effectively govern and maintain peace and order, requires its body of "Kingsmen". And, in my view ideally, it needs to be able to demonstrate that it enjoys the overwhelming support of the majority of the population to discourage agitators. One way to do that is to make sure that the government, on demand, can put its own orderly "mob" into the streets and outnumber all but the largest of demonstrators.

If you are reduced to having professionals play whack-a-mole with insurgents then you have already lost.

 

[brihard]

No need to invoke the so-called 'emergency authority under Sec.91. The provinces are responsible for law enforcement ('administration of justice'). How they choose to do it is up to them.

Under an over-simple math calculation, 500 RCMP members could be replaced by 500 provincial and/or municipal police officers. If surge capacity is needed, they could be redeployed from within or even from another province with a little bit of legislative gymnastics.

The concept of reserve or auxiliary police varies across the country. Most decent-sized police service have them. They are extremely inexpensive to maintain. In most cases in Ontario, they are fully trained and can be designated with the powers of a police officer almost at a moment's notice.

Or I'm completely missing what you are trying to say.

Ontario seems to have no legislative issue bouncing police services inter-municipally to mutually support at major events; Queen’s University homecoming for instance, or the Ottawa convoy in a more extreme example. In the latter case there were municipal police from BC, Alberta and Saskatchewan empowered to act in Ottawa. So- although RCMP definitely seem to be an ‘easy button’ for surging cops to major events or disturbances, that’s by no means something they’re uniquely capable of.

Sometimes I am overly obscure for my own good. My comment was a snide reference to the possibility / need for a body of civic minded individuals willing to put on a uniform to support their government, even if it is just by showing up and following the dictum that "they also serve who only stand and wait."

Some folks would call that a reserve, other people might be inclined to call it a militia or even a national guard. Civil or military, humanitarian or kinetic duties, every government, to effectively govern and maintain peace and order, requires its body of "Kingsmen". And, in my view ideally, it needs to be able to demonstrate that it enjoys the overwhelming support of the majority of the population to discourage agitators. One way to do that is to make sure that the government, on demand, can put its own orderly "mob" into the streets and outnumber all but the largest of demonstrators.

If you are reduced to having professionals play whack-a-mole with insurgents then you have already lost.

What you’re describing - a government sanctioned mob to be ‘its side’ in major civil disorder - is frankly kinda concerning and isn’t exactly unknown in history. There’s a TON of potential for that to go badly wrong.

 

[Kirkhill]

What you’re describing - a government sanctioned mob to be ‘its side’ in major civil disorder - is frankly kinda concerning and isn’t exactly unknown in history. There’s a TON of potential for that to go badly wrong.

Agreed. That is why the "mob" needs to be regulated, disciplined, trained and under orders. Which is exactly the difference between a National Guard being turned out to maintain order and a mob of Brown Shirts, which, incidentally, were an anti-government force that was permitted to overthrow the elected government.

And the government's mob does not have to be on the permanent payroll.

 

[brihard]

Agreed. That is why the "mob" needs to be regulated, disciplined, trained and under orders. Which is exactly the difference between a National Guard being turned out to maintain order and a mob of Brown Shirts, which, incidentally, were an anti-government force that was permitted to overthrow the elected government.

And the government's mob does not have to be on the permanent payroll.

Then how is that distinct from existing regulate or auxiliary police, or CAF PRes acting under AtCP? If what you’re proposing is that regulated, you’re just saying we need more of the same. Which is fine, but not what I think you’re arguing. If you’re arguing for a less regulated or capable body than those- I don’t think making a larger force of shittier troops for a fray is wise.