Mandatory COVID-19 Vaccinations for the Federal Public Service and RCMP

[Altair]

I'm happy about the general consensus here.

Unless the vote is rigged of course.

 

[Navy_Pete]

There is likely a small but vocal percentage of the PS who will either neglect to report thier vax status on the new self- reporting tool or refuse to get vaxed on personal conviction. They will eventually acquiesce to Trudeau's edict or find themselves unemployed, ineligible for EI and heroes of the anti-vax movement. Perhaps this is the beginning of DRAP 2.0 whereby the PS self-culls.

I'm okay with self culling in this case, just based on how the venn diagram for anti vaxxers overlaps with general crappy to work with people. Even some of our resident nut jobs are full of support for vaccination, so honestly don't know anyone at risk of losing their job here.

 

[HiTechComms]

So,...nothing then?

I guess so. Politicians will Politic away.

Maybe we can start mandating Exercise and Diets to the general public. PT for everyone! Mandatory Fun PT day!

I'm okay with self culling in this case, just based on how the venn diagram for anti vaxxers overlaps with general crappy to work with people. Even some of our resident nut jobs are full of support for vaccination, so honestly don't know anyone at risk of losing their job here.

Self Culling ? Death ? How/What ? I don't understand. PS Lingo?

 

[mariomike]

Every labour law and human rights expert, including the Ontario Human Rights Commissioner, who I have seen in the media, say that the mandates will survive challenge.

If the mandates do not survive challenge, I would expect to see Work Refusals from vaccinated employees refusing to be cooped up - say in an aircraft cockpit or car - with an unvaccinated co-worker.

Can you refuse to work along side an unvaccinated person?

 

[Remius]

Well, of those who aren’t vaccinated I suspect that they will just roll up their sleeves and get it done. That will leave a small group that the PS can manage without while they try and ride this out.

I think the CAF has 4K that aren’t vaccinated. So I suspect a good chunk of those will either get it done or release early if they can. It will be interesting to see how many actually don’t get the shot.

 

[Navy_Pete]

Self Culling ? Death ? How/What ? I don't understand. PS Lingo?

Self culling as in not getting the shots and getting fired.

 

[lenaitch]

Devils Advocate.

As I am sitting here waiting for my offer to get re-tendered because I came in contact with some one that had covid that got it from a fully vaccinated individual and now I need an additional med clearing which is still yet to be approved.

I understand that if I finally get in that CAF will vaccine me and I have no issue with it but I simply don't think the vaccine will solve anything.
Luckily turns out that I am immune to covid or at least I am one of those that were completely asymptomatic not even the sniffles but then again I do not have any comorbidity as the majority of the hospitalized individuals do.

The data is coming in from all over the world. Gibraltar, Israel, Singapore, USA (Vermont) and Sweden and VEARS Database and its not showing a positive outcome for the Vaccine. Some countries are now banning vaccine (Norway, Ontario, Holland)for certain age groups. Vaccine away but I think this is not going to change the pandemic as its more of a political creature then a health one. I think in the end it will be get the vaccine and then get sick to get natural immunity, the goal posts will shift and it will be "learn to live with it".

I think that these mandates will comeback and bite us in the ass as the studies of long term effects are still not finished. There have been lots of medications and vaccines that turned out to be a giant disaster for health of people and these vaccines are still Authorized for Emergencies but not Approved for General usage. Lets hope that this is not the case here, because we all know this will result in massive lawsuits.

In the end I will take the vaccine and I have no issue but I will not pretend that this vaccine will just make the pandemic go away as the data shows Vaccinated people still can get sick and transmit the virus and even some of those individuals will die.

I live in Ontario and am unfamiliar with the province "banning" vaccines for certain age groups. They are not approved for under-12s because of the initial lack of clinical trials (which is changing) but that is different than being "banned".

Any number of "dictates" have been lifted. I can now eat in a restaurant and fly on a plane, where before I could not. I still have to wear pants - damned government.

You are possibly correct that Covid may never go away. Virus' mutate to survive, some faster and more effectively than others. Some have been eradicated, either completely or in the First World, through, whatdayaknow, mandatory vaccination. While it would be nice to eradicate it, the point is to make its impact on society more manageable.

I don't know your situation, but if you are trying to get into the military, your lack of desire to be managed or governed by others unless every simple, single direction is supported by a vote in the House, it may not go well. Not every business decision in the private world flows directly from the Board either.

 

[mariomike]

Politicians will Politic away.

I don't take medical advice from them, or internet "researchers", or media personalities.

I just follow the direction of the local Dept. of Public Health.

 

[QV]

Trudeau did say they were going to apply everything they’ve learned during the pandemic to the climate emergency, so that should be fun.

 

[Kilted]

Devils Advocate.

As I am sitting here waiting for my offer to get re-tendered because I came in contact with some one that had covid that got it from a fully vaccinated individual and now I need an additional med clearing which is still yet to be approved.

I understand that if I finally get in that CAF will vaccine me and I have no issue with it but I simply don't think the vaccine will solve anything.
Luckily turns out that I am immune to covid or at least I am one of those that were completely asymptomatic not even the sniffles but then again I do not have any comorbidity as the majority of the hospitalized individuals do.

The data is coming in from all over the world. Gibraltar, Israel, Singapore, USA (Vermont) and Sweden and VEARS Database and its not showing a positive outcome for the Vaccine. Some countries are now banning vaccine (Norway, Ontario, Holland)for certain age groups. Vaccine away but I think this is not going to change the pandemic as its more of a political creature then a health one. I think in the end it will be get the vaccine and then get sick to get natural immunity, the goal posts will shift and it will be "learn to live with it".

I think that these mandates will comeback and bite us in the ass as the studies of long term effects are still not finished. There have been lots of medications and vaccines that turned out to be a giant disaster for health of people and these vaccines are still Authorized for Emergencies but not Approved for General usage. Lets hope that this is not the case here, because we all know this will result in massive lawsuits.

In the end I will take the vaccine and I have no issue but I will not pretend that this vaccine will just make the pandemic go away as the data shows Vaccinated people still can get sick and transmit the virus and even some of those individuals will die.

Should I go get my tin-foil hat?

 

[captloadie]

For all those itching to start filling in charge sheets, you may want to lay down your pens. My understanding of the policy to be issued is we will not be ordering anyone in the CAF to get vaccinated. Therefore, no one will be charged or face disciplinary measures for not being vaccinated. What the CAF will do is make it a condition of employment, and deal with individuals who are unwilling to be vaccinated as administrative burdens and start release processes, after placing them on LWOP.

 

[QV]

How they are going about this is not right. You have a choice, if you make the wrong choice they‘ll prevent you from earning a living including doing so in a manner to prevent EI. This is quite the precedent.

Wait until they do this again for something some of you don’t agree with. “This is just a new condition of continued employment, but you have a choice”.

 

[brihard]

For all those itching to start filling in charge sheets, you may want to lay down your pens. My understanding of the policy to be issued is we will not be ordering anyone in the CAF to get vaccinated. Therefore, no one will be charged or face disciplinary measures for not being vaccinated. What the CAF will do is make it a condition of employment, and deal with individuals who are unwilling to be vaccinated as administrative burdens and start release processes, after placing them on LWOP.

That’s consistent with the TBS policy applying to the rest of the government. The only way someone should eat discipline is dishonesty on the attestation or vaccine records.

 

[Haggis]

That’s consistent with the TBS policy applying to the rest of the government. The only way someone should eat discipline is dishonesty on the attestation or vaccine records.

Lots of military case law out there about falsifying documents like fitness tests.

 

[Remius]

That’s consistent with the TBS policy applying to the rest of the government. The only way someone should eat discipline is dishonesty on the attestation or vaccine records.

Will be interesting glow they deal with class A reservists. No such thing as leave without pay. ED&T I guess. Not sure. Doesn’t RPSR automatically punt them to NES if they miss enough days?

 

[daftandbarmy]

Will be interesting glow they deal with class A reservists. No such thing as leave without pay. ED&T I guess. Not sure. Doesn’t RPSR automatically punt them to NES if they miss enough days?

One parade a month is all it takes to stay in. I'm sure that if there are any Class A 'dissenters' they will be able to manage that.

 

[KevinB]

If the mandates do not survive challenge, I would expect to see Work Refusals from vaccinated employees refusing to be cooped up - say in an aircraft cockpit or car - with an unvaccinated co-worker.

Can you refuse to work along side an unvaccinated person?

Some of the rather odd State Governors down here mask banning mandates (I mean how dimwitted do you need to be for that one?) have not survived legal challenges because they endanger the rights of the immune compromised.

*I'm a Republican and I think the Political aspect to Vaccination is outright disgusting.

Forced vaccinations have been a thing for over 100 years -- I don't get why now some folks all of a sudden think it something to make an issue out of.

 

[Remius]

One parade a month is all it takes to stay in. I'm sure that if there are any Class A 'dissenters' they will be able to manage that.

The policy though that we’ve received is no vaccine no pay.

 

[HiTechComms]

I live in Ontario and am unfamiliar with the province "banning" vaccines for certain age groups. They are not approved for under-12s because of the initial lack of clinical trials (which is changing) but that is different than being "banned".

Any number of "dictates" have been lifted. I can now eat in a restaurant and fly on a plane, where before I could not. I still have to wear pants - damned government.

You are possibly correct that Covid may never go away. Virus' mutate to survive, some faster and more effectively than others. Some have been eradicated, either completely or in the First World, through, whatdayaknow, mandatory vaccination. While it would be nice to eradicate it, the point is to make its impact on society more manageable.

I don't know your situation, but if you are trying to get into the military, your lack of desire to be managed or governed by others unless every simple, single direction is supported by a vote in the House, it may not go well. Not every business decision in the private world flows directly from the Board either.

I have no issues with authority. Again, I have no issue with being mandated a vaxx. I have no issue with being told what to or managed, or governed. As long as some one is paying me for it and takes the liability than its not an issue.

My whole devils advocate bit is that the government is taking on a unknown liability of this medicine. Why take the risk?

Drug and vaccine authorizations for COVID-19: Authorized drugs, vaccines and expanded indications - Canada.ca

Drugs that have been authorized by Health Canada for use in relation to the COVID-19 pandemic

www.canada.ca

If there are problems found the government will just get sued. Cannot get sued if you don't mandate and simply say well is voluntary. There have been many incidents of meds getting pulled and major lawsuits.

Moderna advisory in Ontario

Ontario recommends Pfizer shots instead of Moderna for young adults over possible heart risks

'I know that this news may make some people nervous.... But the benefits of vaccination continue to significantly outweigh the risks of COVID-19'

nationalpost.com

 

[KevinB]

I have no issues with authority. Again, I have no issue with being mandated a vaxx. I have no issue with being told what to or managed, or governed. As long as some one is paying me for it and takes the liability than its not an issue.

My whole devils advocate bit is that the government is taking on a unknown liability of this medicine. Why take the risk?

Drug and vaccine authorizations for COVID-19: Authorized drugs, vaccines and expanded indications - Canada.ca

Drugs that have been authorized by Health Canada for use in relation to the COVID-19 pandemic

www.canada.ca

If there are problems found the government will just get sued. Cannot get sued if you don't mandate and simply say well is voluntary. There have been many incidents of meds getting pulled and major lawsuits.

Moderna advisory in Ontario

Ontario recommends Pfizer shots instead of Moderna for young adults over possible heart risks

'I know that this news may make some people nervous.... But the benefits of vaccination continue to significantly outweigh the risks of COVID-19'

nationalpost.com

Risk versus reward.

The potential side effects are minor for the vast vast vast majority. Even those who get COVID once vaccinated are unlikely (very very very unlikely) to have significant issues from it.
As opposed to those who have gotten COVID or who have not and remain unvaccinated.
US Death toll is over 700k now, that's a decent sized Mathusian Check...