Latest Threat to CF in Combat: Smoke Breaks?!?

[beands]

I am working on quiting smoking, and doing pretty good.
Out of curiosity, however, I am wondering what smoking rules are like in the forces.
I can understand and agree with the fact that at BMQ or deployed and front lines it would be a great risk and not allowed. But, other than BMQ and front line (or even on ex's) what are regulations?
A time and a place are understandable. I just see alot of smokers on here, and wonder how they remain smokers if (from what I can see) the "time and places" are few and far between.
So how DOES it really work?

 

[1feral1]

As crazy as it seems...

Prior to leaving Baghdad, we all had recieved numerous paperwork on what we had been exposed to. This all went on our med docs, and pers files.

Some of these medical documents included, exposure to types of radiation, types of various chemicals and dusts, loud noises such as bombs and gunfire etc, and the rest of the shyte you're exposed to in theatre, plus even SECOND HAND SMOKE (yes, from smokers) whilst inside LAVs, and around the accomodation. Of course that form was only given to us non-smokers. I reckon they were just absolutly covering our arses for eveything, which is fair enough, as for when times move on, over the years, and one catches something which has links to the past, its good for compensation.

Some guys smoked like an eastern europe industrial plant, as cigarettes were around $5US a carton, plus the fact they many smoked more than normal to handle their daily stresses from the job.

When you're young , you might not thinks it seems it matter, as you're bullet proof, but when you get older and time catches up, you'll wish you had some evidence to back a claim.

Better safe than sorry


Cheers,

Wes

 

[josh]

Pub becomes embassy to beat cig ban

Landlord Bob Beech is getting around the cigarette ban by turning his bar into an embassy for a remote Caribbean island.

He claims the Wellington Arms in Southampton will be the only pub in Britain to allow smoking after Sunday - by becoming the UK base for tiny, uninhabited Redonda.

Earlier this month a senior "attache" to its ruler named it as the UK consulate for the island, which is 35 miles off Antigua.

As an embassy, it would be classed as "foreign soil", allowing smokers a haven - as well as VAT-free cheap drinks, reports The Sun.

The attache who granted consulate status is Redonda's official cardinal Edward Elder - a regular at the pub.

Cardinal Elder, 72, said: "We'll be declaring our credentials to the Queen and will see what happens."

Redonda's ruler is King Robert the Bald, 60, who lives on Antigua.

The Canadian-born novelist, who recently granted a knighthood to landlord Bob, regularly sails his yacht to survey his one-mile square kingdom.

Bob said of beating the fags ban: "I have a legal team looking into the legalities at the moment but I am confident."

The Department of Health admitted: "The smoke-free law will not be enforceable against premises that have diplomatic status."

 

[jbeach95]

I fail to see what the last post has to do with smoking in the CF... :

I am working on quiting smoking, and doing pretty good.
Out of curiosity, however, I am wondering what smoking rules are like in the forces.
I can understand and agree with the fact that at BMQ or deployed and front lines it would be a great risk and not allowed. But, other than BMQ and front line (or even on ex's) what are regulations?
A time and a place are understandable. I just see alot of smokers on here, and wonder how they remain smokers if (from what I can see) the "time and places" are few and far between.
So how DOES it really work?

Smoking on your BMQ and other courses is pretty much up to the course staff, whether they'll let you or how much time you have to do so.

Otherwise, there is actually a lot of time to smoke, with frequent breaks and times when you're not working. There isn't really a strong anti-smoking movement within the CF, at least at the unit level. It is tolerated by pretty much everyone. Some people start smoking because of being in the army due to stress, the availability of cigarettes, the willingness to share cigarettes, etc.

This has been my experience.

 

[Pte AJB]

Luckily I haven't had the problem with the arctic tents yet.

Had you come on a winter ex. this year then maybe you would have. ;D There's nothing worse than a smokehouse of an arctic tent. I could only imagine how a LAV would be.

 

[jbeach95]

Had you come on a winter ex. this year then maybe you would have. ;D There's nothing worse than a smokehouse of an arctic tent. I could only imagine how a LAV would be.

Hey, I was on the one in February. I was your section 2IC. Remember who was the one who sent you on the ML rather than hike to next biv site?

Look at what the dark side is doing to you!

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

The LAV isn't as bed as the Arctic tent as long as the hatches are open.

 

[Pte AJB]

I'm just razzing you buddy, didn't ya notice the feces eating grin I attached? Hopefully I'll see you at the Christmas dinner.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

Dinner, aren't we getting a little ahead of ourselves.  Do I know you??

 

[1feral1]

Had you come on a winter ex. this year then maybe you would have. ;D There's nothing worse than a smokehouse of an arctic tent. I could only imagine how a LAV would be.

I never whinged about smoking around and in the LAVs as we had to endure at times, some tough situations, and I don't think complaining about the driver having a fag would go over too well, as there was much more serious stuff going on than to worry about that sort of thing. I just let it go.

Anywher else though within our compound, ADF policy was pretty much met. We had established smoking areas for the 'puffers'.


Regards,

Wes

 

[Pte AJB]

I suppose I should use the quote function more effectively.  ;D I meant to reply to Beach's quote.

Hey, I was on the one in February. I was your section 2IC. Remember who was the one who sent you on the ML rather than hike to next biv site?

Look at what the dark side is doing to you!

I never whinged about smoking around and in the LAVs as we had to endure at times, some tough situations, and I don't think complaining about the driver having a fag would go over too well, as there was much more serious stuff going on than to worry about that sort of thing. I just let it go.

Anywher else though within our compound, ADF policy was pretty much met. We had established smoking areas for the 'puffers'.


Regards,

Wes

Absolutely. If it makes buddy feel better, then you feel better too. It is when one smoke in an arctic tent turns into three (per person) that things get a little excessive, but those situations are rare.

Cheers,

FH

 

[midget-boyd91]

Had you come on a winter ex. this year then maybe you would have. ;D There's nothing worse than a smokehouse of an arctic tent. I could only imagine how a LAV would be.

Open doors arctic tents are worse than smokehouse ones. Believe you me. I've spent a few nights in arctic tents during the winter (one was the coldest night of the year IIRC) with someones foot keeping the door partly open. I drooled in my sleep, and with the temperature that cold.... lets just say it was s bit painful fulling the sleeping bag from my face  
At least in a smoke filled one, you can cover your face or have the puffer sit near the door.

 

[Armymedic]

What about the people who have had multiple DUI charges?  Make them quit drinking? Driving? Both?  And don't even get me started on our so-called "zero tolerance" for illegal drugs policy.....
I agree with Vern, I'm not trying to encourage smoking either, but as Munxcub said, people have to quit for themselves, not for anyone else.

Multiple DUI....are they not administratively handled and released? And if not...why not?

All that need to happen is banning of tobacco use on base. No smoke breaks, no smoking what so ever during duty hours. No smoking in the field or on deployment, as per non authorized alcohol use. Atleast the occasional and minimal use of alcohol has some health benefits....Tobacco use has absolutely none.

It is your choice to smoke, drink, do drugs....It is also your choice to stop. All the CF has to do is make it inhospitable for you to do it during work.

And it is not a hard thing for us (the CF us) to do.

If they ban smoking on DND property, well, I guess my breaks will just be longer when I get in my car and drive off the base.

I guess that is an option if you are in the CF for just a 0800-1600 hrs paycheck, never to deploy to the field or overseas operations.

Oh-BTW, what is the percentage for people with one addiction to be at risk of becoming addicted to something else (usually illegal)?

 

[armyvern]

Multiple DUI....are they not administratively handled and released? And if not...why not?

I know a couple of them ... who are still in. Why? You'll have to ask those involved in their specific sits.

All that need to happen is banning of tobacco use on base. No smoke breaks, no smoking what so ever during duty hours. No smoking in the field or on deployment, as per non authorized alcohol use. Atleast the occasional and minimal use of alcohol has some health benefits....Tobacco use has absolutely none.

Bullshit. I guess you drink but don't smoke eh? We could pull up a whole bunch of adobe files to post into this thread too on the ill-effects of alcohol to ones liver etc etc. and it's effects on ones judgement capabilities and detrimental effects to being able to soldier/fight while under its influence; which happens to be one of the very reasons it's use is restricted. Smoking is NOT illegal nor does it affect ones ability to fight in the detrimental manner that alcohol does.

It is your choice to smoke, drink, do drugs....It is also your choice to stop. All the CF has to do is make it inhospitable for you to do it during work.
And it is not a hard thing for us (the CF us) to do.

Absolutely correct. Our choice, but again, NOT illegal. So when they ban alcohol use as well (Mess Dinners or Men's Christmas Dinners anyone?), I'll be OK with that.

I guess that is an option if you are in the CF for just a 0800-1600 hrs paycheck, never to deploy to the field or overseas operations.

Oh-BTW, what is the percentage for people with one addiction to be at risk of becoming addicted to something else (usually illegal)?

Bullshit. I smoke. If I leave to go for a smoke that means I'm here for an 0800-1600hrs paycheck?? I can be off CF property, have my smoke, and be back at my desk before the guys are out of the canteen. That's a pretty twisted high-n-mighty insinuation for you to be making about me or any other soldier for that matter. Smoke breaks ... what's the problem? I go for one (in the smoking area) while the non-smokers are sitting in the canteen drinking coffee. BTW, so you feel better, that would be everybody else in this location because I'm the only smoker; and trust me, they harass me every day about it ... it hasn't worked yet.

Totally unprofessional.

Other addictions?? No thank you ... I obey the law and stick with my legal vices. Another high-n-mighty assumption by you. We actually have regulations in the CF banning the use of those ILLEGAL substances, and the vast majority of us (and that includes us smokers) are professional enough to comply with that. You've already admitted in your previous post as to the calming effects of having a smoke but have stated there are better ways to calm oneself. So health benefits of smoking?? No. But there are calming/relaxation benefits to it.

Point FYI though, the last two troops that I had reason to request drug tests be conducted upon (both positive) were non-smokers; well non-smokers of the legal stuff anyway. I wonder what the percentage of those types are because your linking/jump from legal to illegal doesn't take that into account.

My enrollment medical paperwork, will also show that when I volunteered to serve, the CF was well aware that I was a smoker. Perhaps it's high time some people started remembering that this is a volunteer force, smoking is legal, and that it is absolutely ludicrous to expect that members of the CF should be expected to lay down their lives prematurely (if required) in battle ... but give them a big FU when it comes to calming their nerves before going into that battle.

 

[Benny]

Bullshit. I guess you drink but don't smoke eh? We could pull up a whole bunch of adobe files to post into this thread too on the ill-effects of alcohol to ones liver etc etc. and it's effects on ones judgement capabilities and detrimental effects to being able to soldier/fight while under its influence; which happens to be one of the very reasons it's use is restricted. Smoking is NOT illegal nor does it affect ones ability to fight in the detrimental manner that alcohol does.

I don't think you can compare the two like that. A non smoker has to breath in a smokers smoke, but a non drinker does not have to drink a drinkers drink.

Drinking does affect a soldiers taskworthiness, as does smoking. Being enemy party when the 'friendlies' have smokers. They show up brilliantly in NVGs. It also means they are holding something that is not a firearm, and the Australian Army prohibits smoking within 5m of live ammunition during training.

 

[beands]

I don't think you can compare the two like that. A non smoker has to breath in a smokers smoke, but a non drinker does not have to drink a drinkers drink.

As I heard it about the pot issue, I feel the same way about the drinkers.
"I don't want some pot-head who smoked up last weekend in the trench next to me as bullets rip by, even if it's been 3 weeks since he smoked it. If his reaction time is delayed by a fraction of a second that could be the difference between me making it out of the trench alive."

I, personally, don't want some drunk in the trench next to me. Granted I do drink myself, I gave up the pot and am waiting my 6 months to join AND I'm working (as I type this) to kick the habit of cig's.
No matter what, however, I would accept a smoker in the trench next to me. His nerves are calm, and as long as he's not lighting one up in the trench (allowing "snipers to zero in on his burning cherry") I see no issue.
The pack he puffed last night won't make the difference. The mickey he slugged back, or the joint he lit up the night before WILL make a difference today in that trench.

Point number 2, one little smoker who goes (when permitted) to the smoker's corner, even if you SMELL his smoke, won't make a difference either. You have gases and carbons you inhale from your rifle. Your wife uses perfume/hairspray, your tank/LAVIII or car/truck/motorbike/etc emits all kinds of crap, hell the factory in China has more effect on you than his one little cigarette he's puffing on. Ask any certified diver out there (perhaps one could validate me here) that breathing the rich oxygen in a tank isn't good for you either, and they cannot professionally dive for (I believe) 5 or 10 years. Get off the smoker's ass already. Get an effing hobby like model cars.

On second thought, the glue you would need is worse for you than my second hand smoke you are smelling from 100 feet away.
Perhaps a 10 foot rope and a wobbly stool would be in order for some of these anti-smoke radicals?
Just a thought.

PS
(All the 'he' 's and 'him' 's, sorry ladies, I also meant the feminine as well)

 

[armyvern]

I don't think you can compare the two like that. A non smoker has to breath in a smokers smoke, but a non drinker does not have to drink a drinkers drink.

Drinking does affect a soldiers taskworthiness, as does smoking. Being enemy party when the 'friendlies' have smokers. They show up brilliantly in NVGs. It also means they are holding something that is not a firearm, and the Australian Army prohibits smoking within 5m of live ammunition during training.

And non-drinkers get hit by drunk drivers. Drunk driving also happens to be illegal, there are a whole lot of families out there in Canada that would argue that someone having a drink does indeed have the ability to effect someone who doesn't. And that was the comparison. Smoking areas are legal here. Don't want to inhale my second hand smoke ... then stay OUT of the smoking area. It's clearly signed in both official languages and is located 20 metres from any entrance or air intake (despite the rules setting the minimum at 15). This country has some excellent anti-smoking initiatives, including bans on public property.

Smoking affects my task-worthiness? I'm NOT smoking while I'm working (we are not allowed to!!); I'm smoking while the nonsmokers are sitting in the canteen drinking coffee.  Enemy party in the field?? NVGs?? Yes absolutely. And as was already discussed, the NVGs are just the latest on this ... read the prior posts on the sniper-checks while lighting smokes from many many years ago. This is not new. If that tell-tale glow showed up to the naked eye at night, the logical assumption is that it would therefore show up really good to eyes being aided by NVGs. Oh, our enemies have smokers too, so we can use this tool on them as well. As I recall from most of the Muslim countries I've been to, wow the overwhelming majority of the men smoked.

I'm quite glad about the Australian Army regulations regarding smoking around ammunition....that's just smart.

We also have rules like that here in Canada. And, BTW, our troops (also as stated in other posts) are fully aware of what a lit cigarette at the wrong time can do to them and their buddies tactically. Our troops are not stupid, they know whether or not it's a good time to have a smoke when they are conducting operations. And the ones who don't and put their buddies at risk, learn really quick ... usually while on exercise ... which goes a long way to ensuring that it doesn't happen again in a live situation. I'd even be willing to wager that it would be a fellow smoker that would be the first one on the offender ... and that it would not be a nice situation.

 

[cameron]

I'm not a heavy smoker, just an occasional pipe and cigar puffer (yes i'm an old man in a young man's body), but it doesn't seem to me like smoking has stopped the Canadian Army from kicking Taliban a@* in Kandahar ;D

 

[Armymedic]

Vern,
My white to your black. Or would that be my pink lungs, to your black lungs? But my response is not just to you, but to all....

By all means, prohibit drinking as well on DND establishments, and during DND functions. Again, another vice that is past its due. Are we so immature as a society to need a chemical in order to be able to enjoy ourselves? But at least we can find a few published reports that say small amounts of alcohol (i.e. 1 glass red wine) daily has a benefit to health. There is no such report for any tobacco product in common use.

Give me one good positive reason why that anyone should be allowed to smoke while in the employment of the CF.

And other then the powerful tobacco lobby and the tax revenue, why does gov'ts allow people to continue to smoke despite all the medical science that says it is bad for the health of everyone?

 

[armyvern]

Give me one good positive reason why that anyone should be allowed to smoke while in the employment of the CF.

See my last para in this post. It's legal. I'm  a volunteer ... and ...

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/63672/post-583609.html#msg583609

Add double/doubles to your list too... they sure can't be doing any good for anyone with that cream & sugar in them ... I'll take an extra-large black for me.

How about salads and fish only in all Mess Halls from now on too?

Many things are bad for us. I hate to see the CF becoming the soup nazis.