Hamas invaded Israel 2023
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Brad Sallows
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Dude, you're harshing the mellow.
Nah, that safe zone take is bullshit. The Israelis have forced much of the Gaza population to relocate and massively concentrate basically wherever they can fit and have some semblance of water, food and shelter. The population is trying to survive and exist wherever they can after being driven out of other areas. The LOAC protections for civilians aren’t predicated on refugees playing ball with your dictated ‘paint by nunbers’ pattern on a map. The Israelis absolutely knew a sizeable civilian populations existed where they chose to hit, they’re still bound by discrimination and proportionality.
Eaglelord17
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So hypothetically they beat Hamas completely (which is exceptionally difficult, look at how well the British got rid of the IRA) what is to stop another group from taking their place? The conditions which allow groups like Hamas to succeed haven’t been removed, if anything they have been increased.
Force of arms and creating grievances isn’t long term going to solve this problem for them unless they are willing to go full Mongol, which thankfully is prohibited in the modern era.
I still think something along the lines of post-WWII de-Nazification of Germany is required for them (and possibly some Israelis as well). Preferably UN lead with Western Nations taking the lead.
You mean the bare-ass desert? Because the habitable parts of the Sinai are already inhabited, farmed, built up etc. Also you’re just right back to promoting ethnic cleansing again.
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I'm not sure why so many are denying the plausible case of genocide in Gaza.
I don't know about you but I'll take the words of Raz Segal, the Israeli Professor of Holocaust and Genocide Studies who 7 days into this war described it as a "Text book case of Genocide":
A Textbook Case of Genocide
Israel has been explicit about what it’s carrying out in Gaza. Why isn’t the world listening?
jewishcurrents.org
And if that's not enough, then I'll take the opinion of Aryeh Neier, a German-born Jewish Holocaust survivor who founded Human Rights Watch. At the beginning of the war, he wasn't convinced of it, then he recently determined that "Israel is engaged in genocide against Palestinians in Gaza".
Here he is with Fareed Zakaria on GPS last week:
Jarnhamar
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Really Abduly? You don't see what canceling the voices of rape survivors has to do with a thread on Hamas? After you did your best to do that yourself by discounting first hand accounts from witnesses and survivors?
Little bit of confirmation bias there.
Brad Sallows
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Probably something along the lines of what was done in Germany and Japan post-WWII.
The conditions which allow groups like Hamas to succeed include support by other nations (supplies, refuges). The solution is obviously more than Israel alone can achieve.
The Israelis managed to get the Arab states to stop attacking them. If you make it clear that they have no chance of success, they are less likely to try.
But equally importantly, the Arabs stopped attacking Israel because they stopped receiving open-ended military support from the Soviets. Cutting off IRGC support to the Hamas bandit kingdom would be a prerequisite to any stable peace.
Israel will never, as in Not Ever, agree to UN supervision of a peace deal. They see the UN as anti-Israel and anti-Semitic, and directly implicated in Hamas' attack in October.
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If @Quirky wasn’t typo-ing “west”, then they’re talking about the Mediterranean Sea.
Not that it’s better.
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They aren’t going to leave, and they will not leave if the power brokers who control them say they cannot.
The IDF is doing a difficult job, perhaps not even very well right now (who knows) but gun barrels and smart bombs will not return very many hostages or put a peaceful end to it.
Palestinians exist right where they are, they have that right and everyone including them is just going to have to accept that this issue will never be solved>>> how to end the slaughter cycle may never have a final end state. It’s likely time for the IDF to pull back quite a bit, restore their honour and reputation. Netanyahu and the war cabinet have caused them to lose this one, pro Israel people like me also have to accept that.
The IDF is doing a difficult job, perhaps not even very well right now (who knows) but gun barrels and smart bombs will not return very many hostages or put a peaceful end to it.
Palestinians exist right where they are, they have that right and everyone including them is just going to have to accept that this issue will never be solved>>> how to end the slaughter cycle may never have a final end state. It’s likely time for the IDF to pull back quite a bit, restore their honour and reputation. Netanyahu and the war cabinet have caused them to lose this one, pro Israel people like me also have to accept that.
Quirky
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Keeping them caged in, under attack from both sides, is clearly working.
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I don’t believe that video is of the strike that blew kids into a mist.
With good reason if the clips of tunnel entrances in UNWRA buildings are to be believed (and they are). Not to mention the reports of UN staff members being a part of HAMAS. Would make as much sense as having Belarus superintend a cease fire between Russia and Ukraine.
Halifax Tar
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I'm no fan of the UN, I'd like to see the west walk away from it.
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Nah, I’ll give him this one- Sinai’s a bit more west than it is south from Gaza. His navigation is fine, it’s just the idea that’s hot garbage.
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I’m not sure the compass disagrees with him.
There is a sliver of the Sinai West of the Southern edge of Gaza (Rafah) but it’s occupied by people who probably don’t want to share.
To get unoccupied areas you are pushing south of Rafah about 10km but that’s barren desert.
I’m pretty sure the Egyptians don’t want anyone from Gaza there, and they would likely prefer the sea idea.
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