Government hints at boosting Canada’s military spending

I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[OldSolduer]

My pea brain tells me that Canada needs a defense industry. Maybe not to build fifth or sixth gen fighters. But an industry that can manufacture ammo, small arms etc.

 

[Remius]

My pea brain tells me that Canada needs a defense industry. Maybe not to build fifth or sixth gen fighters. But an industry that can manufacture ammo, small arms etc.

Drones…

If Ontario can build cars and the auto industry takes a hit we could easily pivot to an extent

 

[OldSolduer]

Drones…

Yes those too - and not NDHQ drones

 

[medicineman]

Drones…

If Ontario can build cars and the auto industry takes a hit we could easily pivot to an extent

Ironic that one of the first UAVS produced was a Canadair product - CL-227 back in the 70's...

 

[Remius]

Ironic that one of the first UAVS produced was a Canadair product - CL-227 back in the 70's...

Our biggest weakness is not exploiting our ideas.

 

[OldSolduer]

Our biggest weakness is not exploiting our ideas.

Isn't that the truth? Bang on!!!

 

[medicineman]

Our biggest weakness is not exploiting our ideas.

The Arrow...the Bras d'Or...CL 227...CL-84/CX-131 (the original design of the Osprey used by the USMC)...frig, even our frigates and destroyers in the past...

 

[Underway]

Our biggest weakness is not exploiting our ideas.

That would require capital and risk taking. Risk taking in Canada is done at the small business level. If one were to say... I dunno... be able to claim capital expenditures on your taxes I expect some more people would take the risky move as its not very risky to increase your profit while implementing new equipment/processes/productive measures.

 

[OldSolduer]

The Arrow...the Bras d'Or...CL 227...CL-84/CX-131 (the original design of the Osprey used by the USMC)...frig, even our frigates and destroyers in the past...

The Arrow as far as I know - heard - it was a great aircraft but it has been so mythologized its hard to distinguish the truth from the myth.

 

[Remius]

The Arrow...the Bras d'Or...CL 227...CL-84/CX-131 (the original design of the Osprey used by the USMC)...frig, even our frigates and destroyers in the past...

Artificial intelligence is a big one

 

[medicineman]

The Arrow as far as I know - heard - it was a great aircraft but it has been so mythologized its hard to distinguish the truth from the myth.

We still designed/produced the CF100 - a great fighter for its time...and even exported it. Canadair also produced CF-86's (and exported them) and CF 104's (and exported them). The Argus was a great plane. Pity we didn't export some of our older destroyer and frigate designs...also pity we don't have our own submarine program or cooperative sub program with other nations. We still produce aircraft domestically - while off the shelf is great, especially for a proven airframe, why not try to get back into the fighter game, other than because the US would try and take over the program and sink it?

Artificial intelligence is a big one

Yeah...pity we haven't properly harvested/nurtured our own natural intelligence sources well...

 

[ytz]

Still would like the JSS go from 2 old with 2 new to be 2 old with 4/5 new. Maybe we'll get there once we confirm 12 new corvettes and 12 new subs someone will be able to make, successfully, the argument for more JSS.

It's arguably more 1:1 with some ships and armour and guns, etc. where technology effects aren't a step change.

But this is not the case on the air side. And especially not the case with fighters. Yet, people will keep talking about how we used to have 138 Hornets and are only getting 88 Panthers, as though is a reduction in capability. Truthfully, the F-35 is so capable that we could probably go 2:1 and still do much, much more than the Hornets did in the 80s.

 

[Maxman1]

Its seems that Carney at least is signaling that Canada wants in on the defence supply line for the big expenditures. There is a push to make Canada the safe harbour for manufacturing and supply chain for many things, as we are generally beyond reach of sustained Russian (and Chinese) attack, unlike Europe. Not to mention the US is likely to get irritated should someone attack NA.

There is a reason that Canada was also the only non-European state to be invited (Norway and UK of course were invited though they are not EU).

That doesn't mean we are going to buy everything European ourselves. There are a lot of hoops to jump through. Germany isn't going to let us build Leopards here no matter what our order number is.

Conversely South Korea could see the same with Canada (they do with Australia). (crosses fingers that Canada wants to help with the Hyunmoo 4-4 project. I'm going full nerd research on ballistic missiles right now).

I've mentioned it before, CV90s and BvS10s made in Canada. And we could make a business case for Challenger 3s to be put into serial production and built here.

 

[medicineman]

Just thinking as well - technically, there was a ground attack package for the Tutors - they're much like the BAC Strikemasters, without their machine guns/cannons. They could I suppose keep the airframe/make newer ones, add updated avionics and a weapons package, boom, newer low level ground attack plane. This obviously is early am, low caffeine brain talking, but hey...

 

[ytz]

I think alot will hinge on the Europeans. IF they continue down their own path of re-arming and IF they allow us to be apart of the new defense spending package, then they will force us to expand our numbers in real terms.

If we say, politely in our uniquely cheap CDN way, 'thanks but no thanks', then they will turf us and put us 100% at the mercy of Trump. No one will view us as a reliable Ally.

Politics aside. Carney is rare among Canadian politicians. Has there ever been a Canadian politician who was a senior bureaucrat in a P5 member state? If he wins (big if), I hope he brings that perspective to work.

Artificial intelligence is a big one

Few people understand how big the lead in AI was. And how badly it was squandered by two federal governments and several provincial governments in Quebec and Ontario. It might have been enough, if fostered, to get us buy in for AUKUS. By itself.

 

[OldSolduer]

Just thinking as well - technically, there was a ground attack package for the Tutors - they're much like the BAC Strikemasters, without their machine guns/cannons. They could I suppose keep the airframe/make newer ones, add updated avionics and a weapons package, boom, newer low level ground attack plane. This obviously is early am, low caffeine brain talking, but hey...

Well its a good start. Almost like we need our version of an A 10 or a helicopter with a big cannon and missiles......

 

[Kirkhill]

Maybe. But 1:1 replacements don't always make sense especially with generational change. There's an order of magnitude difference between three CF-18 and the F-35. See the results:

https://theaviationist.com/2017/02/...-most-probably-thanks-to-the-supporting-f-22/

Those 88 F-35s would be able to accomplish substantially more than the 138 Hornets ever could. And that's just technology. In near-peer that Hornet needs to be supported by jammers and escorted by fighter sweeps. The F-35 needs none of that. So 4 F-35s will accomplish what a strike package of a dozen 4th Gen aircraft in dedicated roles would normally do. That's what a paradigm shift is. Imagine, you're in 1917 with a barn if horses. Do you replace them with Model T on a 1:1 basis?

The same idea is true to a lesser extent with the P-8 too. Overall though, on the air side, mass has to come from unmanned systems. And that's where the RCAF is really behind. A real metric used to look at the relative modernity of air forces these days, is to look at the percentage of unmanned aircraft in the total fleet. And we're absolutely behind on this.

And on satellites.

 

[ytz]

Drones…

If Ontario can build cars and the auto industry takes a hit we could easily pivot to an extent

Everybody and their dog is building drones. Literal high school kids do this with arduinos and 3D printed parts.

What Canada can and should do is provide the materials and parts for the hard to build/refine/manufacture stuff. For example, make Alberta the Carbon Fibre manufacturing centre of the free world. Make Montreal the AI center of excellence again ex-US. Use the steel industry in Ontario and Quebec to make those really hard to make gun barrels for tanks and artillery. Make semiconductors that literally everything needs. Etc.

Example from my area. MDA is developing a continuous manufacturing capability to support Telesat Lightspeed. This will enable them to continuously build satellites to populate the Lightspeed constellation but also to provide standardized replacements as necessary. I can't tell you how disappointed I was to see some Canadians saying we don't need this, because we can just pay Starlink for coverage. Anybody with half a brain should be able to understand the value of our own constellation and a sovereign capability to reconstitute that constellation.

 

[Czech_pivo]

Politics aside. Carney is rare among Canadian politicians. Has there ever been a Canadian politician who was a senior bureaucrat in a P5 member state? If he wins (big if), I hope he brings that perspective to work.



Few people understand how big the lead in AI was. And how badly it was squandered by two federal governments and several provincial governments in Quebec and Ontario. It might have been enough, if fostered, to get us buy in for AUKUS. By itself.

I think he's got a decent shot at winning a majority gov't. I read an article where Lizzie May called him a 'Progressive Conservative' like it was an insult or badge of shame. Personally I don't think that at all. If he does act like that over the course of this election and is continuously called this, I believe that it will earn him alot of support from like minded Tories who detest the religious camp within PP's party. I myself fall into this group. I can't see myself voting for Team Red as I dislike my Team Red MP, Karina Gould. I've never been impressed with her, her speaking abilities, the way she conducts herself, her lack of standing with Israel though her Grandparents were Jewish, her solidly Red leanings on business and a whole host of other things so she won't get my vote at all.

 

[Czech_pivo]

Everybody and their dog is building drones. Literal high school kids do this with arduinos and 3D printed parts.

What Canada can and should do is provide the materials and parts for the hard to build/refine/manufacture stuff. For example, make Alberta the Carbon Fibre manufacturing centre of the free world. Make Montreal the AI center of excellence again ex-US. Use the steel industry in Ontario and Quebec to make those really hard to make gun barrels for tanks and artillery. Make semiconductors that literally everything needs. Etc.

Example from my area. MDA is developing a continuous manufacturing capability to support Telesat Lightspeed. This will enable them to continuously build satellites to populate the Lightspeed constellation but also to provide standardized replacements as necessary. I can't tell you how disappointed I was to see some Canadians saying we don't need this, because we can just pay Starlink for coverage.

Agree about Ontario building the gun barrels, Quebec similar products and Montreal for the AI - but I'd add that we need to better utilize and expand the quantum physics/computing knowledge that resides within the University of Waterloo. The graduates coming out of there need to have solid opportunities in CDN defense companies and our own Federal Government research facilities. Alberta needs to be given a giant hug by the rest of the country and allowed to move forward with refining and pipelines.