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Federal Public Service Compensation & Benefits

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DBA said:
Banking sick leave as 'days' means every promotion or raise also applies to those banked days. Wasn't that big a deal when public service pay wasn't that great but these days it's just too large a cost / liability.

Might be worthwhile to do it similar to how a lot of the private sector does vacation pay: bank it as a $ amount instead of as days. On promotion or getting a raise do a top up for the current year only.

Assuming you didn't cash out your entire severance, are you prepared to have your severance paid out years down the road at the rank you were when severance benefits ceased accruing?  Or are you going to want them paid out at the pay rate for the rank you are when you retire?
 
Occam said:
Assuming you didn't cash out your entire severance, are you prepared to have your severance paid out years down the road at the rank you were when severance benefits ceased accruing?  Or are you going to want them paid out at the pay rate for the rank you are when you retire?

Banking as $ instead of days or forcing people to take vacation days (so it does not accumulate) both have the same effect for the government: reduce liability from the cost of each banked day going up. One is just more flexible in when vaction leave is taken. In either case long term banking of days becomes less desireable (or impossible) for employees and more use their days each year.
 
This debate, over the past couple of days, suggests, to me that the CPC's tactic of feuding with the public sector (part of larger strategy creating "we" vs "they" divisions in many, many areas and then gathering the "we" into a loyal, CPC voter base) is working.

I have mentioned, several times, that the CPC polls assiduously and "honestly" ... by which I mean they really do want to know what you think so that they can either gather you into their base or use you as part of "they." The polling tells them that many (most?) Canadians are, at least, envious of the public service because they (at least a plurality of envious Canadians) believe the public sector is under-worked, overpaid and in receipt of overly generous pensions. That means that Tony Clement's dissembling and Sun Media's propagandizing are aimed at that envious plurality and the (relatively small) public sector can fend for itself ... and don't forget some of the public sector, especially parts in "management" who are concentrated in a couple of Ottawa area ridings, support the CPC, despite their distaste for some specific policy positions.
 
E.R. Campbell said:
This debate, over the past couple of days, suggests, to me that the CPC's tactic of feuding with the public sector (part of larger strategy creating "we" vs "they" divisions in many, many areas and then gathering the "we" into a loyal, CPC voter base) is working.

I have mentioned, several times, that the CPC polls assiduously and "honestly" ... by which I mean they really do want to know what you think so that they can either gather you into their base or use you as part of "they." The polling tells them that many (most?) Canadians are, at least, envious of the public service because they (at least a plurality of envious Canadians) believe the public sector is under-worked, overpaid and in receipt of overly generous pensions. That means that Tony Clement's dissembling and Sun Media's propagandizing are aimed at that envious plurality and the (relatively small) public sector can fend for itself ... and don't forget some of the public sector, especially parts in "management" who are concentrated in a couple of Ottawa area ridings, support the CPC, despite their distaste for some specific policy positions.

And nasty and reprehensible as it may seem, it really is no different as a tactic than the sniping at the rich aka the 1% or the 10% in the class warfare that has long been a feature of campaigning by the political left.
 
>You mean like BC teachers?

I had in mind a private sector strike that occurred a number of years ago, although the BCTF strike is unfolding in a similar way.

My hypothesis is that the win/tradesies worldview is at the root of today's clawbacks.  As long as unions successfully impose that philosophy, monotonically increasing costs are imposed on employers - pay, benefits, and workplace rules that are effectively limitations on flexibility and efficiency.

At some point, an employer decides conditions must abruptly change (some things must be removed) because status quo is unsustainable.  In the private sector, the end game is a long strike until the employees accept the offer.  In the public sector governments can try to remove costs by other means, but a long strike may still result.

If the employees miscalculate the employer's resolve and contest the removal of some costs, they lose a lot of income and end up with the employer's terms anyways.

During the decade-plus leading up to the 2008 recession, most unions likely went through two or three bargaining cycles.  Assuming competence, they arrived at every table armed with growth measurements and projections, essentially saying "See, you can afford this".  Settlements were gradually calibrated to those levels.  But that period was characterized by above average debt-fuelled private spending.  Future revenues (sales and taxes) were consumed in the present.  When people deleverage - as they must - revenue falls.  When governments borrow to pump up spending, they consume more future revenues.

My conclusion is that when people want to pay down their debts, governments should allow it and accept a short, sharp recession; while people are borrowing and spending, governments should plan budget surpluses and pay down debt to make room for some recession spending.

Governments which borrow to spend at the same time as people are borrowing to spend are as dumb as dirt.
 
E.R. Campbell said:
This debate, over the past couple of days, suggests, to me that the CPC's tactic of feuding with the public sector (part of larger strategy creating "we" vs "they" divisions in many, many areas and then gathering the "we" into a loyal, CPC voter base) is working.

I have mentioned, several times, that the CPC polls assiduously and "honestly" ... by which I mean they really do want to know what you think so that they can either gather you into their base or use you as part of "they." The polling tells them that many (most?) Canadians are, at least, envious of the public service because they (at least a plurality of envious Canadians) believe the public sector is under-worked, overpaid and in receipt of overly generous pensions. That means that Tony Clement's dissembling and Sun Media's propagandizing are aimed at that envious plurality and the (relatively small) public sector can fend for itself ... and don't forget some of the public sector, especially parts in "management" who are concentrated in a couple of Ottawa area ridings, support the CPC, despite their distaste for some specific policy positions.

There was significant sympathy or wary openness in the PS to the CPC when they first came in and every new government gets a "grace period" as they learn how to use the levers of government. The PS were disgusted with Liberals and their lack of morality and were hoping the CPC would be different or at least equipped with a strong moral compass.  But the CPC headlong rush into legislation change with little thought and the senate scandal has all but extinguished that support. The attack on the rice bowel yields predictable results.
 
National Post
November 26, 2015

OTTAWA — Canada’s public servants take up to twice the number of sick days a year as private sector workers do, because of different motivations, work cultures and rules that encourage “gaming the system,” says a new report by the Macdonald-Laurier Institute.
http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/public-servants-gaming-the-system-take-twice-as-many-sick-days-as-private-sector-workers-report
 
Granted that's a right-leaning think tank (the Rideau Institute for the Tories), but the system is set up to reward taking sick leave that's not required, instead of having a robust system to keep paycheques coming in for those that are truly sick. PSAC et al don't want the gravy train to go away.
 
PuckChaser said:
Granted that's a right-leaning think tank (the Rideau Institute for the Tories), but the system is set up to reward taking sick leave that's not required, instead of having a robust system to keep paycheques coming in for those that are truly sick. PSAC et al don't want the gravy train to go away.

I've never understood the reason for paying out banked sick time. If you were not sick, then you shouldn't need to be paid for it. That being said, I do understand banking sick time in order to continue to draw full pay when you truly are sick.

What I would support is some form of sick leave where you bank the entitlement at X days per month, in case of a significant injury or illness. One could still have X days per month for immediate sick time, to include appointments etc, but the long term time could be earned as credits to be used prior to going on extended sick benefits - with the attendant reduction in pay. The caveat being that you consume your sick time as you use it, ie: if you used the days this month you don't have them available to bank. That might cut down on the "lifestyle management" use of sick time, and return it to the insurance policy it was intended to be. It would also reduce the end of career payouts that are a liability to the employer.
 
You realize that the government puts up posters in it's workplace saying "If your sick, stay home!" They don't want sick people infecting the office. I get annoyed when someone compares the PS to a small business, they are 2 different beasts, better to compare it to a huge company.

What I have noticed is that the two times you need more sick leave is when you have young kids and near your retirement time as you will be suffering from all the bugs kids get from daycare/kindergarten and all the injuries you accumulated over a career of working.

As for large scale abuse, if your away a lot you are putting a lot of work on your co-workers who will complain to the manager. If it's a real need people will understand and be supportive. If it's abuse, then the manager will hear about it. When we tried to release someone who was abusing the system, it was senior management that failed to act and even the union felt they had done for the person all they could do and they had more or less washed their hands of it. 
 
The sick leave issue is going to be a hard nut to crack. As long as there are employees that are willing to abuse the system, there doesn't seem to be a one solution fits all answer. Maybe we need to differentiate between short term sick leave, and long term sick leave. For example, all employees get x number of weeks of Long term sick leave. It needs to be certified by a doctor, and cannot be cashed in if not used. There could be a separate allotment of short term sick days earned, maybe x number per year, that are cashed out at some value at the end of every year at the current salary band, with no carry over.
 
captloadie said:
It needs to be certified by a doctor, .

Which is about the easiest thing to do in the world.  They have no skin in the game so they'll pretty much right whatever you ask them too.....
 
Bruce Monkhouse said:
Which is about the easiest thing to do in the world.  They have no skin in the game so they'll pretty much right whatever you ask them too.....
That's why I only said it would be for a long term sickness. While we have no requirement to know the details of a sickness, I think it would get around fairly quickly that an employee got a doctor to give him a month off, and he spent it either on the golf course or shopping for companionship in Thailand.
 
Normally someone who is going to abuse it regularly, does not have a month off, as they won't have any sick leave banked. They will use it as soon as they get it. Which is a warning sign to the Manager. I personally can't think of anyone who started to abuse sick time near their retirement age in at least the last decade.
 
Colin P said:
Normally someone who is going to abuse it regularly, does not have a month off, as they won't have any sick leave banked. They will use it as soon as they get it. Which is a warning sign to the Manager. I personally can't think of anyone who started to abuse sick time near their retirement age in at least the last decade.

You must work in isolation then....
 
Nope at least 25 on this floor and another 30 or so that I cross paths with on a regular basis. In fact we have had to send staff home as they were just to sick. We have one guy on a program to work him back into work as he had a serious heart issue. My boss that nearly died from a heart attack is back to work. We had one younger person I spoke of that abused the system, mainly due to outside issues. I have seen abuse of the system, but it's more of the exception than norm. due to cutbacks over the years there is not enough meat to allow the abuse to get out of hand, because of the workload that gets put on others. I know that does not fit the narrative but that is what i see. Perhaps I work in a program and or region that is more motivated than others. I see from my program stats that we handle about 3 times the work per officer as other regions. Not sure if the West Coast is just busier.
 
Same here.  4 people in the last 5 years retired from my team, and not one abused it.  In fact I have seen maybe one chronic case of someone abusing sick leave and it was handled.  To be honest I saw more more abuse in the CAF than in the PS.  But I have more time in the CAF.
 
Be 'realistic,' Brison tells Public Service
Unions warned bargaining must acknowledge faltering economy

Kathryn May
Ottawa Citizen
01 Feb 2016

Treasury Board President Scott Brison, whose federal negotiators meet with public service unions Monday, is warning that bargaining must be "realistic" in the face of Canada's deteriorating economic situation.

The Liberal government resumes collective bargaining this week, beginning with the Public Service Alliance of Canada, the biggest of the 18 federal unions. It's the Liberals' first session at the table since negotiations with the Conservative government dissolved in acrimony before the Oct. 19 election.

The two sides have already locked horns because the unions want the Liberal government to repeal Tory-era legislation that rewrote the rules for collective bargaining and, they maintain, greatly diminished their bargaining clout. So far, Brison has agreed to review the law but not to repeal it.

The big question, however, is the Liberal government's position on sick leave. Will it table a new proposal or pick up where the Conservatives left off?

The last government offer came from Tony Clement, Brison's predecessor. His take-it-or-leave deal hit two hot buttons that galvanized unions into signing an unprecedented solidarity pact. Clement wanted to eliminate public servants' sick-leave banks - a total of 15 million days socked away - and reduce their 15 days of annual sick leave to six.

While the Liberals promised a "new mandate" for bargaining, Brison, who says he is "hell-bent on not prejudicing" the talks, declined to discuss details.

"We are going respect the negotiation process and bargain in good faith," he told the Citizen.

"There are a number of issues ... but we will not be negotiating these agreements through the media or on the floor of the House of Commons. We will be doing it at the bargaining table in a respectful way with the public sector union negotiators."

But Brison's caution that bargaining must be realistic is a sober departure from the Liberals' apparent honeymoon with public servants, which began with election promises to restore respect and rebuild the bureaucracy after a decade of cuts and tension under the Conservatives. While the Liberals have clearly abandoned the Tories' hard-line approach, Brison is signalling he will be a tough negotiator.

The government is sympathetic to union demands for freer and fairer collective bargaining, but it also faces the prospect of a largerthan-expected deficit, falling oil prices and a worsening economy. It needs to keep in check the $45 billion a year spent on public servants' compensation in order to fulfil its other promises.

"As a government, we have a mandate to move forward with a very aggressive agenda and that agenda will focus on creating jobs and growth," Brison said.

"We also have a very tight fiscal situation, which we inherited from the previous government, and as such our ability to invest in jobs and growth requires us to negotiate realistically."

In contrast to the Tories, however, the Liberals' and unions' interests are aligned in many ways, which may bode well for reaching a deal.

The government needs an effective public service to pull offits activist agenda, and public servants want to be considered relevant again. They want to be collaborated with, asked for advice and used to gather evidence for policy-making.

At the same time, the unions will be hard-pressed to win public support - and some say even that of their members - if they end up in a dispute or strike against a popular government that already has set a new conciliatory tone by unwinding some Tory-era legislation that was felt to erode workers' rights.

"Going on strike against Justin Trudeau is a whole different thing from striking against Stephen Harper," said one longtime bureaucrat. "The public will have no sympathy for striking public servants."

Public servants are well-paid and enjoy generous benefits compared with many Canadian workers, which the Conservatives adeptly exploited to win public support as they tried to save money by taking a whack at public servants' pensions and benefits.

"The last government defined the public service as the problem and this one wants to make the public service part of the solution," said one union official.

Clement's sick-leave reforms took aim at absenteeism, suggesting that public servants - who typically take 12 days of sick leave a year - are malingerers who abused their sick leave. When the unions refused to make concessions on sick leave, Clement passed legislation to unilaterally impose a new short-term disability plan to replace the existing regime.

Contrast that with Brison, who says he is looking for "opportunities to modernize sick leave." Unions have long argued that the problems with the existing sickleave regime can be fixed without replacing it and have offered a list of ideas for a new government to consider.

Whatever the proposal, the Liberals' fiscal plan banked on the $900 million the Conservatives had booked in savings for 2015-16 by eliminating sick-leave banks. Without it, the savings will have to be rolled back and added to the government's deficits.

The unions have long argued the $900-million saving was "mythical" accounting.

Public servants are entitled to 15 sick days, but it is part of their salary and they aren't replaced when they are sick. They can't cash out unused sick leave, and most retire with months of banked leave, which disappears with them.

But sick leave isn't the only issue.

The unions have made unconventional bargaining demands, such as bringing integrity back to government science, and improving transparency, health and wellness in the workplace. The Liberals promised to deal with these during the election.

There is also the issue of wages. The Tories tabled the same raise it gave executives - a 0.5-per-cent increase for last year and 0.5 per cent for this year. MPs gave themselves a 2.3-per-cent raise and senators got 2.7 per cent. Every oneper-cent increase in wages would cost about $450 million a year.

SICK LEAVE BATTLE

The Conservative government argued the existing sick-leave plan, which dates back to 1923, is outdated and out of sync with modern practices. Existing sick leave plan: Public servants get 15 days of fully paid sick leave a year. They can carry over any unused days from year to year. They typically take about 12 days a year, banking the rest. There are about 15 million unused sick days currently banked. Waiting period: If they fall ill, they have to wait 13 weeks (65 days) before they can go on long-term disability. Those who have banked sick leave can use it to bridge this waiting period, or they can collect employment insurance.

The Conservative Proposal: The accumulated sick leave regime would be replaced by a short-term disability plan with more focus on prevention, case management and rehabilitation to get the sick and injured earlier care and back to work faster.

Sick Days: Employees would get six "discretionary" days a year and could carry over two of any unused days. They face a five-day waiting period with no pay before they can apply for short-term disability. They can use vacation or other leave to cover the waiting period but can't use their banked sick leave.

They must also give a case management worker access to their medical records and meet the definition of "totally disabled" to qualify for short term disability.

Short-term disability: Typically covers employees for 26 weeks, offering graduated incomes that begin at 100 per cent of salary and drop offthe longer employees are offwork. Long-term Disability Plan: This plan kicks in after the term for short-term disability is up for employees who are still ill. Employees typically collect 70 per cent of their salaries until they return to work or up to age 65 if they can no longer work.

Banked sick leave: Employees' sick leave banks would disappear by 2017.

Contract: Sick leave would no longer be part of employees' collective agreements.

What the Liberals will propose is not known.
There is clear room for compromise on sick leave.  Carry on with the plan to eliminate roll-over/accumulation while instituting a short term disability coverage, but leave the annual 15 day allotment of sick days (or cut it to 12 days) and allow the use of these days to bridge to the start of short term disability coverage.

0.5% and 0.5% for pay increase looks a litte rough, but they are better than what is happening in the oil patch since the fall.
 
Link for MCG's post:  http://ottawacitizen.com/news/national/brison-warns-public-service-bargaining-must-be-realistic




I suppose his use of the wording "Unions warned bargaining must acknowledge faltering economy" could be justification for them to basically carry out the plans that the Conservatives were looking at trying to implement.  Not at all what the Liberals were campaigning on. 

Seems that our unions are quit gullible when they listen to Federal and Provincial Liberal promises.  (Looking back on what the Wynne Government has done with several Ontario unions.)
 
Yes, their reward for voting Liberal might just be to have their heads lopped off anyhow.  Would serve them right.
 
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