Do Canadian soldiers use the PRC 117 radio?

[Good2Golf]

LCMM, I doubt the 117F would ever be modified to hop on IRIS...the SINCGARS and IRIS FH algorithms are substantially different, and Harris wouldn't even spend the time to build a new radio system, unless the Cdn Gov't threw lots of money at them....wait a sec... :

 

[swordfish2]

The 522 radio i find works beautiful.
the 521 we did not run into much problems with but then again we were not in rough terrain if you will.

I personally perfer the 522's.
I'm just curious, what do our allies say in Afganistan use?

I read earlier that the british used civ. radios but not anymore. so what do they use?

 

[Redeye]

Read somewhere (probably on ARRSE - the UK Army Rumour Service) that they adopted a comms/SA system called "BOWMAN".  It's said to stand for "Better Off With Map And Nokia".

The 522 radio i find works beautiful.
the 521 we did not run into much problems with but then again we were not in rough terrain if you will.

I personally perfer the 522's.
I'm just curious, what do our allies say in Afganistan use?

I read earlier that the british used civ. radios but not anymore. so what do they use?

 

[Eric_911]

The 522 radio i find works beautiful.
the 521 we did not run into much problems with but then again we were not in rough terrain if you will.

I personally perfer the 522's.
I'm just curious, what do our allies say in Afganistan use?

I read earlier that the british used civ. radios but not anymore. so what do they use?

Holy frikin' necropost! Over 3 and a half years old!

 

[Fusaki]

Holy frikin' necropost! Over 3 and a half years old!

Yeah, seriously.  But since we're here...

I would not go so far as to say that the 522 works beautifully.  In fact, I'd say the IRIS system as a whole is pretty junk.  The veh installs arn't too bad, but the dismounted stuff leaves alot to be desired.

But then again, I have a hard-on for Harris radios... ;D

 

[rampage800]

Not too sure if anyone is using the 522s in dismounted/light roles overseas, I imagine they are but to be quite blunt most people could get away with the 522 vice the 117F. A lot of the guys you'll talk to say they need the SATCOM and UHF but don't carry the applicable antennas, know how to set it up (SATCOM)or even know the freqs so they're just basically carrying a fancier looking VHF radio. All things being equal the smaller versions are starting to come out over there( 148s and 152s) now and I have no problems buying the weight issue argument

 

[Fusaki]

A 117 pushes over twice the power of a 522, for the same weight.  SATCOM and UHF capabilities aside, it's a significantly better radio even when only used for VHF.  In my own perfect world 152s would replace our LARs and 117s would replace our 522s.

 

[rampage800]

I have no rebuttal against saying the 117F is better than the 522, I totally agree and I'm well aware of the capes and limitations of both radios, the problem is, as you probably already know, there are not enough 117Fs to go around (ie. a 1 for 1 swap) so they need to be prioritized. In a perfect world all users would have VHF,UHF and SATCOM capes but thats not the Army we're in. For the average user the 522 works.

 

[Sig_Des]

AFIK, The Brits are still using the Bowman system, which is an upgraded version of the IRIS system, also made by GD.

As far as 522 vs. 117F, different radios, for different roles. Not everyone needs a DAMA/ HPW capability all the time, and some do.

 

[GDawg]

I had a 117F overseas and it truly is a wonder radio. Before I deployed I had maybe 2 hours of formal training on it, I figured out the rest myself. I think my TC was hesitant to switch from the 522, but when I found all the EIS and demonstrated the awesomeness and relative simplicity he was converted. Getting all the parts was a hassle, and I wouldn't doubt they were winding up with folks who didn't have the antennas or experience to fully utilize the radio. For my purposes the 522 was pretty good, but the 117 was better.  I also had a few 521s, but that is a different matter entirely. I rarely worked with the 148, but I wish I had.

 

[Ex Ranger Instructor]

AFIK, The Brits are still using the Bowman system, which is an upgraded version of the IRIS system, also made by GD.

As far as 522 vs. 117F, different radios, for different roles. Not everyone needs a DAMA/ HPW capability all the time, and some do.

The main advantage of the 117 as we are using it here in theatre is the multi band capability, not the HPW capability. The HPW capability is great, and it lets you do all kinds of snazzy things, but at the present time we aren't using it, other than in a few test cases.  (The Brits use HPW all the time, with outstanding results, and we should try to be more like them.)

I have been out with the Brits on multiple occasions now, and I have not seen them use any Bowman Radio, nor any VHF of any kind.  They are using the Harris PRC 150 to run most of their unit level nets.  Being a HF set there is a bit of an operator training bill involved with using it successfully/properly, but in the hands of a good operator it has a number of advantages over a VHF set, chief among them being the ability to punch through ECM.  We are not using HF in theatre (and again, we should try be more like the Brits).

 

[Fusaki]

A lot of the guys you'll talk to say they need the SATCOM and UHF but don't carry the applicable antennas, know how to set it up (SATCOM)or even know the freqs so they're just basically carrying a fancier looking VHF radio.

For the average user the 522 works.

But the 117 works better.  It's not just a "Fancy looking 522".  It's a 522 that has the muscle to TX longer distances through harsher terrain.  Even if you have no need for SATCOM, UHF, HPW, the average user is still better off with a 117.  The fact that there are not enough 117s to go around is a seperate issue.

As far as 522 vs. 117F, different radios, for different roles.

They are not for different roles.  The 117 does EVERYTHING the 522 does in a dismount role.  Just because the 117 can do alot more does not mean that it serves a different purpose.  The 113 and the 522 are different roles. The 117 fills the same role as both of them and then some.

I had a 117F overseas and it truly is a wonder radio. Before I deployed I had maybe 2 hours of formal training on it, I figured out the rest myself. I think my TC was hesitant to switch from the 522, but when I found all the EIS and demonstrated the awesomeness and relative simplicity he was converted. Getting all the parts was a hassle, and I wouldn't doubt they were winding up with folks who didn't have the antennas or experience to fully utilize the radio. For my purposes the 522 was pretty good, but the 117 was better.

Agreed.

 

[rampage800]

Wonderbread

I guess you missed the part where I agreed with you, that the 117F is a better radio, I think the higher power has more to do with the fact that the 117F covers a wider range of freqs than the 522, as opposed to muscling through heavy terrain, its still LOS. I stand by what I said, for the average user, who doesn't need UHF or SATCOM capability the 522 works fine.

 

[George Wallace]

............, I think the higher power has more to do with the fact that the 117F covers a wider range of freqs than the 522, as opposed to muscling through heavy terrain, its still LOS.

You lost me, and I'm not an Electronics Engineer, but I think you probably lost all of them too.  I am positive that a CELE officer, or someone else with a higher Degree in the subject will tell you that a wider range of freqs does not give you more power. 

Another thing; it doesn't matter what  radio transmitter you use, a radio wave is a radio wave is a radio wave, and it isn't changed by using a different radio. 

How you use your radio, and you knowledge of radio waves, air and ground, as well as what "Skip" is, and a few other tricks may be something that you'll pick up with some experience.  Anyone want to get into Patrol antennas and expedient antennas or perhaps what height a Ground Plan antenna should be set for what freq?

 

[rampage800]

George

There are different transmitting power settings on the 117F, the higher settings are for AM, the 117F has that capability. I believe even when in VHF mode the highest setting you can get is 10 even though it'll read 20, the AM setting at its highest will let you talk to a/c 30-40kms out, in VHF maybe 5, 10-15 with a 10ft antenna, no different than the 522.

 

[George Wallace]

George

There are different transmitting power settings on the 117F, the higher settings are for AM, the 117F has that capability. I believe even when in VHF mode the highest setting you can get is 10 even though it'll read 20, the AM setting at its highest will let you talk to a/c 30-40kms out, in VHF maybe 5, 10-15 with a 10ft antenna, no different than the 522.

Began to think of the different spectrums after I posted.  Still, range can be greatly improved with different antennas.  Not being too familiar with either radio, what is the differences in Power output between the two?

 

[rampage800]

To be quite honest I don't know, I believe the max tx setting on the 522 is 5 so it would stand to reason that it would talk further but in reality it doesn't. The 117F will "step" on the smaller radios but talking VHF, in my experiences with both and with as you pointed out the same antennas, either 3 ft whip or 10 ft, they work the same.

We do use expedient antennas(when the situation permits) with the Cobra Heads and stuff but it is a bit of a lost art, no Droopy Dipoles or anything like that, about the best you'll see now is a piece of WD-1 strung out along the ground, to go along with that I've only seen one set up overseas, not saying its correct but just not something we practice a lot anymore but probably should.

 

[George Wallace]

To be quite honest I don't know, I believe the max tx setting on the 522 is 5 so it would stand to reason that it would talk further but in reality it doesn't. The 117F will "step" on the smaller radios but talking VHF, in my experiences with both and with as you pointed out the same antennas, either 3 ft whip or 10 ft, they work the same.

We do use expedient antennas(when the situation permits) with the Cobra Heads and stuff but it is a bit of a lost art, no Droopy Dipoles or anything like that, about the best you'll see now is a piece of WD-1 strung out along the ground, to go along with that I've only seen one set up overseas, not saying its correct but just not something we practice a lot anymore but probably should.

Many guys forget to properly ground the set.

 

[Fusaki]

I believe the max tx setting on the 522 is 5 so it would stand to reason that it would talk further but in reality it doesn't. The 117F will "step" on the smaller radios but talking VHF, in my experiences with both and with as you pointed out the same antennas, either 3 ft whip or 10 ft, they work the same.

I work closely with a guy who humped a 117 as the OC's signaller almost every day for 6 months. He'll swear that the 117's 10 watts (VHF Low, FM mode) make a significant and noticeable improvement over the 522's 4 watts TX power.  Having carried a 117 myself for a few days in the fall, I'll say that there was a noticeable improvement over the 522 when operating in an urban environment.  I maintain that a 6 watt difference is a BIG difference.

WRT field expedient antennas...

Last spring we pushed 5 watts from Chalk River to Y-101, about 16 kms.  We did it using a 138 set on a VHF freq in FM mode, talking to a 522 on a vixon mast.  While it's true that we did have LOS, the 10 foot whip wasn't even breaking air on the far end.

The antenna we used was a "Vertical V" that we sort of came up with on the spot.  Imagine a horizontal V cut to length for the freq, and put on it's side so that it would propagate vertically.  Interestingly enough, of the 20 or so antennas we tried that day, the one that looked most like a vixon mast worked the best. Who'da thunk it?

 

[tango22a]

George:

PM inbound!

Cheers,

tango22a