lenaitch
Army.ca Veteran
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Except we like to Canadianize the pants off everything.
CMMA - replacing the CP140 Aurora
- Thread starter Eye In The Sky
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Spencer100
Army.ca Veteran
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So you're saying buy the P-8 and but then put the Cyclone mission system in it.....sounds like a perfect plan!
I will need to be in a trench with a cope cage on top for the above comment.....lol.
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Hence why Boeing wants out of firm fixed price contracts, to shift risk to the buyer.
Spencer100
Army.ca Veteran
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Boeing has taken it on the chin with the last few fixed priced contracts
KC-46 Pegasus, has costed Boeing billions!
Air force One is a giant red line hole. (Trump bent them over on that one)
Boeing says it can’t make money with fixed-price contracts
"Rest assured we haven't signed any fixed-price development contracts, nor intend to."
arstechnica.com
Fixed-price defence contracts to weigh on Boeing until at least 2025
Led by cost challenges on the VC-25B presidential aircraft programme, Boeing's defence business lost $924 million in the third quarter of 2023, with top executives warning recovery will not come until as late as 2026.
www.flightglobal.com
Spencer100
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Its a "scandal" now! LOL
ca.finance.yahoo.com
I would bet my last dollar Bombardier is getting "support" from certain people in Ottawa.
'A scandal': Bombardier CEO calls for open bidding process to replace military jets
"We're not even being considered? This is a scandal," says Bombardier's CEO Eric Martel.
I would bet my last dollar Bombardier is getting "support" from certain people in Ottawa.
GR66
Army.ca Veteran
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From the article:Its a "scandal" now! LOL
'A scandal': Bombardier CEO calls for open bidding process to replace military jets
"We're not even being considered? This is a scandal," says Bombardier's CEO Eric Martel.
I would bet my last dollar Bombardier is getting "support" from certain people in Ottawa.
The claim that they would be creating as many jobs as the entire Reg Force Army will be a major selling point to politicians.
Maxman1
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Except for the C22, that is a standard P320, while it's the American pistol that has extra bits.
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CTV calling out Bombardier with that quote
So, from the quote below:Its a "scandal" now! LOL
'A scandal': Bombardier CEO calls for open bidding process to replace military jets
"We're not even being considered? This is a scandal," says Bombardier's CEO Eric Martel.
I would bet my last dollar Bombardier is getting "support" from certain people in Ottawa.
They should be easily able to point out exactly when/where they’ve made a Maritime Patrol Aircraft that is in service with other nations (as they said above) that meets our requirements. I’ll wait.
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BUT, as posted elsewhere:
Today at 2:55 AM
Blair's rejigging the defence policy to provide more clarity to industry.
Today at 2:55 AM
Blair's rejigging the defence policy to provide more clarity to industry.
Bill Blair forced to 'recraft and refine' long-delayed defence policy update as industry questions spending plans
Delays in the defence policy update signalled a brewing fight between defence officials and federal decision-makers about overall government spending
nationalpost.com
FormerHorseGuard
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But nothing Bombardier has ever made for the Canadian military has lived up to the purpose it was designed for.
They have never designed a aircraft that may go into combat, there is no common parts in any NATO fleet so spare parts not going to available on demand at over seas bases. Everything will have to be flown in and flown back. Sound like aircraft maintainers nightmares. Fed Ex or Herc flights to bring parts. Who is going to pay the R&D on this aircraft besides the Canadian Tax Payer with handouts and increased over cost runs.
Who else is going to buy it and help offset the costs? This reminds me of the great Arrow plans, only 1 client and 1 Country to purchase, it just doubled in price.
The other aircraft is proven, airframe, parts are in the NATO supply system, and the maker has made combat aircraft before. US government took the R&D hit, not Canadians
They have never designed a aircraft that may go into combat, there is no common parts in any NATO fleet so spare parts not going to available on demand at over seas bases. Everything will have to be flown in and flown back. Sound like aircraft maintainers nightmares. Fed Ex or Herc flights to bring parts. Who is going to pay the R&D on this aircraft besides the Canadian Tax Payer with handouts and increased over cost runs.
Who else is going to buy it and help offset the costs? This reminds me of the great Arrow plans, only 1 client and 1 Country to purchase, it just doubled in price.
The other aircraft is proven, airframe, parts are in the NATO supply system, and the maker has made combat aircraft before. US government took the R&D hit, not Canadians
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Don't try to make sense. You are forgetting this is the Liberal government whose base is in Quebec.
Colin Parkinson
Army.ca Myth
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The MLVW based on a very old design, still needed some 150 mods after acceptance.
If Bombardier was smart they would let the P8 procurement go through with out contest. Design their Maritime Aircraft and market it with smaller countries.
If they can build a more cost effective version with the same or similar capacity as the P8 then they could market their platform with DFO, Coast Guard/RCMP even the Military in the near future. Having the extra capacity for offensive and Defensive stores can make it more attractive for the Cdn Gov to buy as a multi mission Aircraft.
The ball in in Bombardiers corner to do the right thing. This project did not come out of no where. But their protest did.
If they can build a more cost effective version with the same or similar capacity as the P8 then they could market their platform with DFO, Coast Guard/RCMP even the Military in the near future. Having the extra capacity for offensive and Defensive stores can make it more attractive for the Cdn Gov to buy as a multi mission Aircraft.
The ball in in Bombardiers corner to do the right thing. This project did not come out of no where. But their protest did.
Back pedaling has begun now in earnest. The Liberals are in trouble in Quebec, according to a recent poll, so the odds of a contract to Boeing have been reduced significantly. Also, apparently, the CP-140 replacement is not as critical as has been previously reported, and is no longer an "urgent operational requirement".
www.timescolonist.com
Industry minister won't say whether new military planes will be a sole-source deal
Industry Minister François-Philippe Champagne won't say whether the process to replace a fleet of aging military patrol planes will be an open-source bid, as the heads of Canada's two biggest provinces and Bombardier Inc.
www.timescolonist.com
Boeing has taken it on the chin a lot over the last few years, but it has been 100% Boeing's fault every single time.Boeing has taken it on the chin with the last few fixed priced contracts
KC-46 Pegasus, has costed Boeing billions!
Air force One is a giant red line hole. (Trump bent them over on that one)
Boeing says it can’t make money with fixed-price contracts
"Rest assured we haven't signed any fixed-price development contracts, nor intend to."
Fixed-price defence contracts to weigh on Boeing until at least 2025
Led by cost challenges on the VC-25B presidential aircraft programme, Boeing's defence business lost $924 million in the third quarter of 2023, with top executives warning recovery will not come until as late as 2026.
The KC-46 Pegasus has been an avoidable disaster from the start. The USAF actually chose the MRTT initially after running a competitive bidding process & looking at that aircraft, but politicians got involved and Boeing ended up getting the contract in the end.
(Talk about taking a straightforward concept & turning it on its head! The USAF was looking to refresh their tanker fleet with fresh aircraft, not reinvent how that capability functioned inside the airframe...Boeing should have kept it simple. Oh yeah, and their quality control issues which persisted throughout the first few lots of aircraft delivered)
Or the 737 Max fiasco. Or the spat with the Canadian government over the C-Series. Or the new AF One, like you mentioned...
Heck, on the military aircraft side of the house, I think the AH-64 & Super Hornet production lines are the only ones plugging along without any serious issues dragging them down
I wish they could see the big picture for what it is, instead of being so caught up in it all that they don't see what's right infront of them.Back pedaling has begun now in earnest. The Liberals are in trouble in Quebec, according to a recent poll, so the odds of a contract to Boeing have been reduced significantly. Also, apparently, the CP-140 replacement is not as critical as has been previously reported, and is no longer an "urgent operational requirement".
Industry minister won't say whether new military planes will be a sole-source deal
Industry Minister François-Philippe Champagne won't say whether the process to replace a fleet of aging military patrol planes will be an open-source bid, as the heads of Canada's two biggest provinces and Bombardier Inc.
Trudeau is unredeemable at this point, and so is the Liberal party as long as he is at their helm. No pandering to Quebec is going to fix that
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CMMA was never a UOR.Back pedaling has begun now in earnest. The Liberals are in trouble in Quebec, according to a recent poll, so the odds of a contract to Boeing have been reduced significantly. Also, apparently, the CP-140 replacement is not as critical as has been previously reported, and is no longer an "urgent operational requirement".
Industry minister won't say whether new military planes will be a sole-source deal
Industry Minister François-Philippe Champagne won't say whether the process to replace a fleet of aging military patrol planes will be an open-source bid, as the heads of Canada's two biggest provinces and Bombardier Inc.
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RAdm (Ret'd).
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Even more reason to be reprogrammed. I forgot about the bump after DGMEPM.
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