Chopper on offer to cops

[Slim]

Toronto doesn't have any police aircraft at all?

That's interesting seeing as Ottawa has a Cessna equipped with FLIR available. Interesting on how things work in different cities.

PS: The Ottawa plane is very well equipped.

Their intelligence unit has an old airplane of some type...Unless that's been taken awy as well.

 

[Good2Golf]

The Comox Valley RCMP detachment has a Bell Longranger chopper - we have a population of about 60,000 people total (between 1 city and 2 towns).  Halloween is tonnes of fun - the spotlight comes on and the rotorheads fly about looking for hooligans.

On a serious note, flying around Toronto would be a serious problem for a helicopter on a chase.  Could you imagine the ATC nightmare that would ensure...  ATC would not be inclined to divert a commercial airliner simply for a police chase.

Actually, Zip, choppers integrate into YYZ/YTZ ATC services very well.  I've worked operations where we sent a LNO right to the IFRCC (ran in to an ex-Tac Hel bud controller to boot!) and things ran extremely well.  Ops included transit in and around Pearson, under flight paths, around down town, etc... no problems at all!

I can't believe how much some people firmly have their heads up their respective a$$es! 

What?  So some people would rather see a whole slew of cruisers chasing a fleeing motorist than following him in a chopper and taking him down in a location that is far safer for the public???  Shake your heads, complainers!  Dag nab it...such stupidity really, REALLY gets to me!

I've heard some of the stupidest, most unfounded complaints about helos...."they broke my windows", "it broke my alarm clock", etc... the list goes on... :

Duey

 

[Slim]

They are all FOS without a doubt!

The one we have in Durham has done so much good!

 

[zipperhead_cop]

One of the main reasons for the choppers is to better continue suspect apprehension pursuits.  What you don't see is that when the dinks get caught, after they have driven on sidewalks and into oncoming traffic to cause an accident which the pursuing officers will either get involved in or stop to help, they go to jail for a single night.  If they don't have a huge record or multiple ongoing charges, they get cut loose on a recognizance from a judge who says "promise me you wont steal cars anymore, son".  And the bag nods his head solemnly, signs the recog and is out the next morning.  When it gets to court, he can plead guilty and get a whopping ONE YEAR PROBATION!! OMG!!  Most judges have a "kids will be kids" attitude towards car theft, which they actually still call "joy riding" in some cases.  And if you look at some of the recent incidents in the GTA where officers involved in a pursuit were charged with Criminal Negligence because the bad guy caused an accident, it just isn't worth it.  If there is a chopper shining a light on one of these tools as they careen along then they will just keep going until they brew someone up.  If there was any real penalty for it, I would be the first one to keep after them and pin them down.  As it is, at least in southern Ontario, it basically is not against the law to steal cars.  Just make sure you steal a crappy one that is worth less than $5000, and it's the same charge as shoplifting. 
So the Chief of Toronto (and I am not defending him at all BTW) is probably thinking that it isn't worth the time and expense, until sentencing of car thieves is made more harsh. 
I imagine that these smaller mentioned services have some sort of safety/rescue angle to justify the expense of aircraft.  Toronto is too urban to try that tact and besides, everyone knows that only firefighters save lives. ;D

 

[Slim]

Air 1 Durham Regional Police Service

http://www.police.durham.on.ca/internet_explorer/whatsnew/whatsnew_view.asp?ID=823

 

[gate_guard]

I think that choppers can be a useful tool for police. They can respond a lot quicker than cars provide a police presence within minutes of receiving a call. Think of the examples given off the Durham site. The deterrence element of policing is multiplied with the use of choppers. With regards to pursuits, having a chopper is the safest way to keep tabs on a stolen vehicle, avoid a pursuit that could potentially kill an officer or citizen, and actually recover the car without having it damaged or written off.

 

[Good2Golf]

A good friend of mine flies HAWC-1 in Calgary...that some folks in T.O. can see the value of the capability is amazing...especially (although I know how some of the politics there works) coming from people on the Police Services Board.

Cheers,
Duey

 

[Bert]

I think Duey is going to be watching old re-runs of Air Wolf and Blue Thunder over holidays.

 

[Good2Golf]

I think Duey is going to be watching old re-runs of Air Wolf and Blue Thunder over holidays.

Hey Bert, I had "whisper mode" in the Huey...just never turned it on!  ;D

Cheers,
Duey

 

[zipperhead_cop]

I think that choppers can be a useful tool for police. They can respond a lot quicker than cars provide a police presence within minutes of receiving a call. Think of the examples given off the Durham site. The deterrence element of policing is multiplied with the use of choppers. With regards to pursuits, having a chopper is the safest way to keep tabs on a stolen vehicle, avoid a pursuit that could potentially kill an officer or citizen, and actually recover the car without having it damaged or written off.

Those examples on the Durham site, they didn't land to offer assistance, did they?  Just curious.  If they could, that would be a great response time. 
If you are worried about the car being recovered with little damage, then just don't try to stop them at all.  The rats only drive them for a short time so they wont be on file as stolen, and 95% of the time they only have ignition column damage ($150+-).  They usually turn up within a day, sometimes within hours, of when they were taken.  As previously mentioned, there is no penalty for car theft until after around your fifth conviction.

 

[3rd Herd]

The rats only drive them for a short time so they wont be on file as stolen, and 95% of the time they only have ignition column damage ($150+-).  They usually turn up within a day, sometimes within hours, of when they were taken.  As previously mentioned, there is no penalty for car theft until after around your fifth conviction.

Zipperhead,

You right with they only drive them for a short while and that there is no have penalty. First hand experience this summer resulted in something no one of enjoys "NOK notifications". Two of Vancouver's more illustriously car theifs stole a car in Burnaby drove it out to the ferry terminals and dumped it. Once in Nanimo they 'borrowed' a van and drove across the island. Their journey to the wild west coast ended with them driving head on into my work truck night shift. Two retired members of the CF out of commission, one out for three months the other for two years. One of these short time users was arrested at the scene, the other fled later caught trying to 'borrow' a third vehicle. Both involved had according to the papers extensive prior records.

Now having said that I watch with extreme glee the success of the 'bait car' program being run out here on the coast. It is kind of hard to argue the circumstance surrounding possession of a vechicle not yours, in front of a judge with all the wonderful video feed from the inside of the bait car. I have seen some stats to indicate that it is one of the main reasons for the decrease in auto theft out here. But having said that yes sentencing is to lax for repeat offenders. Every once in a while you will get a full page add of the top ten Vancouver area canedates. Which thanks to some fine citizens in Vancouver usually are found very quickly in most case in possession of a newly borrowed vehicle.

Now back to the matter at hand, the police and helicopters. Victoria area I believe and this may have changed recently gets chopper coverage from RCMP choppers out Vancouver. And Duey you are going to hate this, one is piloted by an x long time PPCLI W.O. (we're infiltrating everywhere). Now as we all know the Queens Cowboys are as strapped for cash as every one else and there was a plan to reduce flying time out of Vancouver. Power of the people struck and the idea was quickly revisited. Out here helo duties seem to range from missing person searches to cruising the skies looking for BC plantations. Additionally, we had 26 helo involved rescues on the wild west coast by August this year. If Tacoking and his buddies would stop throwing live bodies out of their antiques fishing in a certain lake would be better. Mind you it has become quite a spectator sport.

In closing having grown up in the TO area this news item just gives me another reason for staying on this side of the rockies.

Choo

 

[Good2Golf]

#rd Herd...no problem, if an observer, he probably had a chunk of Kiowa stick time!   Plus, he'd know his way around Workpoint! LOL

On thread, I find it amazing that such a proven capability to increasing policing effectiveness and reducing injuries associated with pursuit would be a hemming and hawing, "well, we don't think it's really needed"... :

Cheers,
Duey

 

[Slim]

On thread, I find it amazing that such a proven capability to increasing policing effectiveness and reducing injuries associated with pursuit would be a hemming and hawing, "well, we don't think it's really needed"... :

Its all political. Yet another good reason to break the hold that the Liberals have on this country.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

If Tacoking and his buddies would stop throwing live bodies out of their antiques fishing in a certain lake would be better. Mind you it has become quite a spectator sport.

I gotta ask, Man- what lake is this?  The only "live bodies" I have ever chucked out of a Sea King have landed in either:

a) the Pacific Ocean
b) Morris Lake, behind Shearwater.

This maybe a new development since I left the "Best" Coast, this summer...

 

[3rd Herd]

I gotta ask, Man- what lake is this?  The only "live bodies" I have ever chucked out of a Sea King have landed in either:

a) the Pacific Ocean
b) Morris Lake, behind Shearwater.

This maybe a new development since I left the "Best" Coast, this summer...

To avoid some unwarranted criticism of the Seaking and friends of mine. I will answer with what is in the public domain. The boys in Pat Bay have used both Shawnigan and Cowhichan very recently and given it's public success will be doing so again. In an interview on Check 6, Can West Global the change from the Pacific Ocean to the lakes was due to the corrosive effect of sea water and related maintenance time. In addition there was a short flying time allowing for more actual training than movement to and from the training area. There are some quite nice pictures in the Times Colonists archives of the Seakings sitting on the lakes and hovering just above the lakes. Also Seaking Taco, Check 6 off of Blandshard St. is very good about giving a copy of their coverage on video to interested parties takes about thirty days to process. Now I got to ask, Pacific Ocean off Long Beach or off Albert Head area? I know Long Beach is a favorite dz for Comox, but we had the occasional King around too.

 

[geo]

FWIW, The SQ had some noisy helicopters.
Over time, as they were replaced, they got newer ones that make much less noise.
Noise is not & should not be an issue.

Muskrat - loved the link to Maricopa.....
Detention facility can boast of 1200 convicts in tents;
costs of under 45¢/meal/inmate;
women in tents & on chain gangs
a volunteer posse of 3200 men and women,

I love it!
Good on ya!

 

[SeaKingTacco]

There are some quite nice pictures in the Times Colonists archives of the Seakings sitting on the lakes and hovering just above the lakes.

Ahhh- now this makes sense.  In the winter of 2004, after Aircraft 401 rolled over on HMCS IROQUOIS and we spent several months not being allowed to hover, we had to rebuild our skills at water landings- an emergency procedure for us. Each Sea King pilot must yearly undergo "waterbird" training at Morris Lake, behind Shearwater.  This was not possible at that time because Morris Lake was frozen.  We then decided to use Shawnigan Lake.  It is a Transport Canada registered aerodrome, for the purposes of amphibious aircraft.  Water samples were taken before, during and after the training, which ran for about three weeks, in which time about 75 pilots requalified on water landings.  No pollution was detected.  Nobody jumped out of the aircraft into the lake- trust me.  That said, some of the locals have a deep and abiding dislike and distrust of the military and made sure they phoned the mdeia daily to complain about the "harassment" they were receiving from us.  Don't believe everything you see on TV about the military, particularly if a Sea King is involved.  Most of it is just wrong.

Cowichan Lake was considered, but it was a longer drive for our safety divers to go each day from FDU, so was never used.  I understand the Labs used to use Comox Lake for the same sort of training.

We generally do diver deployment training for FDU right in front of the Spit at Esquimalt Lagoon.  It is great fun!

I apologise deeply for the thread hijack.  Back to your regularly scheduled thread...

 

[HDE]

Hi Guys!

  A Toronto radio station 640 AM now has a couple of OPP members up doing traffic reports in their helicopter.  Apparently it can be called upon to assist in the event of an "emergency".  Sort of a police helicopter via the back door ;D

 

[geo]

so long as the balance of Ontario Taxpayers are sharing

To be honest, I believe that Montreal has similar deal with the SQ
the SPM (montreal police) have one old (noisy) helicopter that has more terrain to cover than can reasonnably be expected to cover...

would imagine that the provincial police must bill for missions that are called in by the local authorities.