Canadian Surface Combatant RFQ

[dapaterson]

And explain how the amounts are broken down to the general public. Instead of just dropping an eye watering price and walking away.

And the information released generally includes such breakdowns, if one reads beyond the headlines.

 

[Rainbow1910]

And the information released generally includes such breakdowns, if one reads beyond the headlines.

Debatably so, these breakdowns are generally obtuse and nearly impossible to glean any actually worthwhile information from.

 

[Czech_pivo]

Debatably so, these breakdowns are generally obtuse and nearly impossible to glean any actually worthwhile information from.

I've yet to see an news release say - "and amount X is to cover off all the salaries, CPP and extended health care related costs for the crew of 225 over the next 30yrs, including a wage increase of X% over those 30yrs and all future increases to CPP and extended health care items. As an example, if the average wage of a sailor crewing HMCS Not Fifty One is X$/yr, multiplying that by 225, one comes up with an annual estimate cost for just salaries to be X$/yr, for a total of XX$ over 30yrs.

 

[DBNSG]

I've yet to see an news release say - "and amount X is to cover off all the salaries, CPP and extended health care related costs for the crew of 225 over the next 30yrs, including a wage increase of X% over those 30yrs and all future increases to CPP and extended health care items. As an example, if the average wage of a sailor crewing HMCS Not Fifty One is X$/yr, multiplying that by 225, one comes up with an annual estimate cost for just salaries to be X$/yr, for a total of XX$ over 30yrs.

There is no way in Heck the PSAC would allow that type of truth to ever enter the public realm

 

[Furniture]

The RCN? No, its the accounting Gnomes at Procurement Canada insist on lifecycle costs of all major projects. That is why we get these massive sticker shocks when any piece of gear is announced. And because warship building is bloody expensive no matter which way you look at it and that all those cheaper foreign yards quote a base price for welded steel but not the costs of adding engines, hotel services, weapons, and sensors.

Would you buy a house if the selling price includes taxes, O&M, food, and clothing for the 30 years you plan to have the house?

The sticker shock is a feature, not a bug. It makes Canadians feel like the government is spending huge amounts of the CAF, while ensuring it spends as little as it can get away with.

 

[Kirkhill]

And the information released generally includes such breakdowns, if one reads beyond the headlines.

Do you want to sell? Or do you want to prove how good the CAF is at accounting?

You've heard of the elevator pitch? With most consumers you don't even get that. You're lucky to get 15 seconds these days.

 

[Rainbow1910]

Irving Shipbuilding awarded $5.57 billion contract for Royal Canadian Navy’s new destroyers - Defense Archives

In a low-key announcement this past Saturday, the Government of Canada disclosed that Halifax-based Irving Shipbuilding had been awarded a $5.57 billion ($8 billion CAD) contract for the full rate production of the first three new River-class destroyers for the Royal Canadian Navy (RCN)...

defensearchives.com

Some interesting information from this article, with some behind the scenes info from the embargoed event last Friday.

During an embargoed media briefing on Friday afternoon, in response to a question raising concerns about procuring Aegis and other systems from the United States, a Senior Military Official stated: “We don’t see any issues with the FMS component of River-class.”

Vice-Admiral Angus Topshee, Commander, Royal Canadian Navy also confirmed back in January that Standard Missile 6 (SM-6) would also likely be procured to provide River-class with the ability to intercept ballistic missiles in the terminal phase. Its SPY-7 radar allows ballistic threats to be detected and tracked, but none of the currently announced weapons on River-class are ballistic missile defense capable.

 

[FSTO]

Irving Shipbuilding awarded $5.57 billion contract for Royal Canadian Navy’s new destroyers - Defense Archives

In a low-key announcement this past Saturday, the Government of Canada disclosed that Halifax-based Irving Shipbuilding had been awarded a $5.57 billion ($8 billion CAD) contract for the full rate production of the first three new River-class destroyers for the Royal Canadian Navy (RCN)...

defensearchives.com

Some interesting information from this article, with some behind the scenes info from the embargoed event last Friday.

BMD by stealth.

 

[GR66]

BMD by stealth.

Curious...if hypothetically we were to have a land-based SM-6 launch system would it need a stand alone targeting radar (something like Aegis-ashore) or would existing/planned NORAD radar systems be able to provide the required targeting information?

 

[IKnowNothing]

Government needs to plan and needs lifecycle information.

That's fair. The operations and sustainment phase of life cycle costs are needed to plan the overall budget and should be factored into procurement in a long term and holistic way- evaluating the tradeoffs between different systems and capabilities to allocate money properly within a defined force mix.

The problems (in this civilians opinion) is that the underlying institutional assumptions and prejudices misunderstand/manipulate that data on a conceptual level, and in turn lead to it be being presented to and understood by the public in a very detrimental manner.

While the operations and sustainment costs of the CSC are critical pieces of information- they should NOT be viewed as the cost of the CSC program, they should be viewed as the cost of having a functioning blue water Navy at the scale necessary as defined by the GoC. By including it in the public and governmental presentation of the cost of the program, rather than the cost of having a Navy- the PBO plants the seed that there is an option to not spend that money at all.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Debatably so, these breakdowns are generally obtuse and nearly impossible to glean any actually worthwhile information from.

I explain to people is that over inflated price includes the toilet paper the crew will use fro the life of the vessel, then they start to get it.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

There is no way in Heck the PSAC would allow that type of truth to ever enter the public realm