Canadian Surface Combatant RFQ

[Oldgateboatdriver]

That's just lame. Yet another opportunity lost to give our warships names that actually sound like we mean it lost, and will likely have soft and generic ships badges and mottos to go along with it.

Navy_Pete, Rivers were the names of the first destroyers ever acquired and built specifically for Canada: SAGUENAY and SKEENA, a few years before WWII, names of rivers were also used for the 20 frigates acquired by Canada from England during WWII, and of course they were used for the largest class of ships ever built in Canada, by Canada and for Canada: the twenty original 1955 and onward SAINT LAURENT and derivatives. It is probably the most storied set of ship's names in the history of the RCN. And they will take on the mottos and crests of the 1955's SAINT LAURENT they replace, I am sure.

 

[Navy_Pete]

Navy_Pete, Rivers were the names of the first destroyers ever acquired and built specifically for Canada: SAGUENAY and SKEENA, a few years before WWII, names of rivers were also used for the 20 frigates acquired by Canada from England during WWII, and of course they were used for the largest class of ships ever built in Canada, by Canada and for Canada: the twenty original 1955 and onward SAINT LAURENT and derivatives. It is probably the most storied set of ship's names in the history of the RCN. And they will take on the mottos and crests of the 1955's SAINT LAURENT they replace, I am sure.

I don't disagree there is lots of history behind it, just disappointing as I thought they were seriously looking at the Tribal names. At least some of those ships are ones that people still serving are familiar with.

The last time we saw ex-HMCS Fraser it had been seized back from the reef society and had so much bird shit on it was considered a Hazmat zone.

This seems like a safe option that is pandering to long retired members, and hard to get too excited or attached to a river; at least the city class had hometown links and the tribals had associations with the tribes.

 

[quadrapiper]

I don't disagree there is lots of history behind it, just disappointing as I thought they were seriously looking at the Tribal names. At least some of those ships are ones that people still serving are familiar with.

The last time we saw ex-HMCS Fraser it had been seized back from the reef society and had so much bird shit on it was considered a Hazmat zone.

This seems like a safe option that is pandering to long retired members, and hard to get too excited or attached to a river; at least the city class had hometown links and the tribals had associations with the tribes.

Noting that it would be a major departure from prior use of the class scheme, but I could see the nations' names being used for whatever-it-is that replaces the MCDVs, especially if it ends up being a more numerous class, or one that actually has an unending, rolling build process.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I don't disagree there is lots of history behind it, just disappointing as I thought they were seriously looking at the Tribal names. At least some of those ships are ones that people still serving are familiar with.

The last time we saw ex-HMCS Fraser it had been seized back from the reef society and had so much bird shit on it was considered a Hazmat zone.

This seems like a safe option that is pandering to long retired members, and hard to get too excited or attached to a river; at least the city class had hometown links and the tribals had associations with the tribes.

Lets be clear that was the Artificial Reef Society of Nova Scotia and not the Artificial Reef Society of BC. We been very successful at sinking your navy.

 

[FSTO]

I don't disagree there is lots of history behind it, just disappointing as I thought they were seriously looking at the Tribal names. At least some of those ships are ones that people still serving are familiar with.

The last time we saw ex-HMCS Fraser it had been seized back from the reef society and had so much bird shit on it was considered a Hazmat zone.

This seems like a safe option that is pandering to long retired members, and hard to get too excited or attached to a river; at least the city class had hometown links and the tribals had associations with the tribes.

I’ll have more later but we seriously looked at tribal names but it was so fraught with landmines (anglicized names, wrong names, which tribes take precedence for a language), etc) that we felt the Rivers can be leveraged to encompass the various names of the FN within the ship itself.

 

[Rainbow1910]

It remains to be seen whether its SeaRAM or RAM. Based on what @Rainbow1910 is saying ExLS out and GMLS in. Pro's and Cons for both of those options.

The scuttlebutt I heard from specified the Mk-49 Guided Missile Launching System, which would be arranged with one on each broadside in the cut outs of the sponsons where the CIWS is located on the Type 26 and the Hunter class.

 

[PrairieFella]

The scuttlebutt I heard from specified the Mk-49 Guided Missile Launching System, which would be arranged with one on each broadside in the cut outs of the sponsons where the CIWS is located on the Type 26 and the Hunter class.

To my untrained eyes it certainly is a handsome ship. BZ RCN on getting some cool shit. Has anything been finalized in the MCDV replacement (OPV right)?

 

[Cloud Cover]

The scuttlebutt I heard from specified the Mk-49 Guided Missile Launching System, which would be arranged with one on each broadside in the cut outs of the sponsons where the CIWS is located on the Type 26 and the Hunter class.

ChowdahHill had a video up a few months back of the GMLS being reloaded at sea on his carrier (Ike). It looked like a somewhat physical evolution for a team of about 5 and certainly not quick, but also appeared not overly complex.

Anytime a missile system can be reloaded at sea is a good thing!

 

[Eaglelord17]

That's just lame. Yet another opportunity lost to give our warships names that actually sound like we mean it lost, and will likely have soft and generic ships badges and mottos to go along with it.

I can't believe the only warship like names and badges are now on... Artic patrol ships that are non-combatants.

Oh well, will match well with the reality of 'fitted for but not with' ammunition and ROEs.

I hate the names on the Arctic Patrol Ships, they are long and cumbersome.

Personally I like the choice of the river class. Simple in name, has Canadian Naval service history, can represent all the main historical groups which Canada was founded on (British, French, Native, etc.), and doesn’t get into the political issues that can come with picking some of the suggested alternatives.

 

[NavyShooter]

ChowdahHill had a video up a few months back of the GMLS being reloaded at sea on his carrier (Ike). It looked like a somewhat physical evolution for a team of about 5 and certainly not quick, but also appeared not overly complex.

Anytime a missile system can be reloaded at sea is a good thing!

Reloading a 20mm CIWS is a long evolution - the empty casings in the drum have to be cycled out as new ammo is being cycled in. It's an evolution for a team of 6-8 with multiple cans of ammo staged on the hangar top to both deliver the new ammo to the drum, and receive the empty casings.

If the RAM missiles are as easy to reload as they appear to be...you get a higher Pk with a similar loading time. I think.

 

[FSTO]

I hate the names on the Arctic Patrol Ships, they are long and cumbersome

I’ve started a campaign where I just use the last names when I talk about the AOPS.

 

[Underway]

I’ve started a campaign where I just use the last names when I talk about the AOPS.

I varies. HDW. Max, Margie. The crews end up making nicknames so fast.

Has anything been finalized in the MCDV replacement (OPV right)?

Project isn't even funded (yet).

Reloading a 20mm CIWS is a long evolution - the empty casings in the drum have to be cycled out as new ammo is being cycled in. It's an evolution for a team of 6-8 with multiple cans of ammo staged on the hangar top to both deliver the new ammo to the drum, and receive the empty casings.

If the RAM missiles are as easy to reload as they appear to be...you get a higher Pk with a similar loading time. I think.

Agree completely. Also given where the RAM launchers would be much less dangerous/weather dependant. I'm never going to forget my first CIWS upload. Pitch black, almost freezing rain, 34knots of relative wind, standing on the hangar top, sweating my ass off on the pully to drag ammo up to the hangar top. Good times!

 

[KevinB]

Agree completely. Also given where the RAM launchers would be much less dangerous/weather dependant. I'm never going to forget my first CIWS upload. Pitch black, almost freezing rain, 34knots of relative wind, standing on the hangar top, sweating my ass off on the pully to drag ammo up to the hangar top. Good times!

I’m curious as to why the layout of the CIWS is so awkward on ships. The Ground one mounted on/in ConEx boxes are loaded from the inside and have 5k ready rounds, and the casings are ejected outside the box.

 

[dimsum]

I hate the names on the Arctic Patrol Ships, they are long and cumbersome.

@Underway said it already but folks will shorten it unofficially. There is precedent anyway - HMCS Athabaskan was “Atha-B”, for example. People will find a way to shorten it to 2-3 syllables.

Keeping with the river theme, I just want one of them to be HMCS Saskatchewan, with the (unofficial) morale patch of a pirate.

 

[Cloud Cover]

There is nothing stopping the RCN from having a subsequent specialist flight of the ship and then using a different naming convention.
And there is nothing stopping the RCN from using the commissioning name of the last 4 Tribals, except the new woke CDS.

 

[Underway]

I’m curious as to why the layout of the CIWS is so awkward on ships. The Ground one mounted on/in ConEx boxes are loaded from the inside and have 5k ready rounds, and the casings are ejected outside the box.

CIWS onboard needs a drum magazine to counterbalance the radar on top. This is so that the electric stabilizing motors aren't constantly working to keep the radar stable as the ship moves all over the place.

On land in a fixed position this isn't a problem, so you can have a big ol magazine with the gun locked in a position as the radar doesn't need the motors to keep level. If something matches its engagement profile the weapon is unlocked and the gun engages.

 

[NavyShooter]

On a ship, there's also the FOD factor - having the CIWS located on Hangar Top, if it was dumping the brass out the side instead of cycling it back into the drum, you'd have brass all over the upper decks back aft. Not a good thing. The brass cycles back into the drum in part for counter-balance weight as mentioned.

 

[Furniture]

There is nothing stopping the RCN from having a subsequent specialist flight of the ship and then using a different naming convention.
And there is nothing stopping the RCN from using the commissioning name of the last 4 Tribals, except the new woke CDS.

Well apart from the fact the river class is just as historic and avoids all of the minefields of the Tribals.

The CAF has a public image problem already, adding to that problem to appease a few history buffs would be strategically dumb. It has nothing to do with "woke"...

I hate the names on the Arctic Patrol Ships, they are long and cumbersome.

I quite enjoy serving in HMCS Max Bernays as a chief, but as others have said, the names get shortened for daily use.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Yep. I can see just how easy that one can become just "The Max". As in Q: So what are you doing these days? A: I'm on the Max. Etc. etc.

 

[markppcli]

Yep. I can see just how easy that one can become just "The Max". As in Q: So what are you doing these days? A: I'm on the Max. Etc. etc.

I’m about to get on the Harry D might raise some eyebrows.