Cali to potentially legalize marijuana for everyone.

[silverbirdtank]

I'm with JM, I haven't seen a "majority" of people demanding that marijuana be legalized in Canada...........yet.

Yes well I believe this article is about California, U.S.A..

 

[the 48th regulator]

Yes well I believe this article is about California, U.S.A..

Yes,

but very pertinent to Canadian politics.  It was not that long ago that a Federal Government, here, was going to decriminalize  MJ under certain amounts.

dileas

tess

 

[Loachman]

Yeah, I’m also with JM and Moe; people will not protest to maintain the illegal status of pot until there is a debate to legalize it.

Which would bring out more of the ones favouring legalization as well.

A referendum would be interesting.

I do not believe that cannabis is harmless.

I do not believe that tobacco or alcohol are harmless, either, but we do not sling people into jail simply for using them.

Nor do we fund huge criminal enterprises through their bans - although, almost a century ago, that was tried and subsequently abandoned.

 

[Journeyman]

Yes well I believe this article is about California, U.S.A..

Yes, but you brought the commentary into a Canadian context

Besides at the end of the day it really should be about what the majority of people want.

If anyone has a problem with some of the points i've posted please refer to these quotes from the Canadian Senate Special Committee on Illegal Drugs......

I guess you forgot that.

Effects of cannabis
Acute effects while under the influence can include euphoria, anxiety, temporary short-term memory loss.....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects_of_marijuana

 

[the 48th regulator]

Yeah, I’m also with JM and Moe; people will not protest to maintain the illegal status of pot until there is a debate to legalize it.
I do not believe that cannabis is harmless. My observation is that most people I know who suffer from depression or repetitive burnouts are or have been heavy pot smokers; they also tend to believe in the most ridiculous conspiration theories and have a harder time coping with some of life’s challenges.
And yes, mild paranoia is something I observed in these persons.

But these are just my observations; I am not a scientist or a psychiatrist… or a senator !!!

What have your  observations been with people that abuse alcohol?

dileas

tess

 

[silverbirdtank]

Yes, but you brought the commentary into a Canadian contextI guess you forgot that.

You see that wasn't what they were quoting though, I was talking about how the U.S. feds may not intervene in this decision and said something along the lines of,

"but at the end of the day it's what majority of the people want"

Then somebody commented something along the lines of "I must of missed the people calling for legalization my head must have been stuck in a dorito bag"

and then, the guy I quoted said "Neither have I in Canada, yet..."

So I was just informing you guys that in the context in which I said that I was speaking of California, I may have sourced my information on the harms of continued prohibition on a Canadian text so that we could all relate to it more but it is obvious that at that point I was speaking about the U.S.

 

[Journeyman]

So I was just informing you guys that in the context in which I said that I was speaking of California, I may have sourced my information on the harms of continued prohibition on a Canadian text so that we could all relate to it more but it is obvious that at that point I was speaking about the U.S.

Obviously. 
But had you been actually following the discussion, everyone else had moved on, using the article as a start-point to discuss the Canadian situation.
Thank you for your initial contribution though.

 

[silverbirdtank]

Here, I feel I should source this.

this shows that recent polls in California have found majority in favor of legalization, taxation and regulation. An end to prohibition and funding organized crime as well as making criminals out of people who enjoy the stuff.

http://www.examiner.com/x-4106-California-Statehouse-Examiner~y2009m5d4-Poll-shows-a-majority-of-Californians-support-legalize-marijuana

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2009/12/14/Pot-measure-headed-for-California-ballot/UPI-30881260844254/

I know you call this a discussion but it seems far from it, a guy could take time and source information proving that marijuana isn't that harmful to the lung, brain (although i've seen studies saying the opposite as well, none done on humans though) or body with published scientific studies from the last 3 years but people will shoot that down with their 'personal experiance' or take one quote that you say that doesn't sound right, turn it around with a little rhetoric and then disregard everything you say without glancing at information.

Maybe marijuana does turn people a little lazy or make them have a tougher time with lifes problems or maybe those are just the kinds of people that are succeptable to that, just like their are people succeptable to the effects of alcohol and turn into alcoholics. Just as some people can over indulge in food until they are lazy, tired, immobile slobs. While others can still enjoy these things moderately, I think we need to place some of the responsibility into the peoples hands not the compounds.

 

[PMedMoe]

Hello??  Is there an echo in here??  ???

:

 

[silverbirdtank]

Oh boy, I hit quote and not modify. Might as well quickly ridicule and make assumptions of me using drugs.

 

[PMedMoe]

Oh boy, I hit quote and not modify. Might as well quickly ridicule and make assumptions of me using drugs.

Nah, that would be too easy.    Besides, MJ is supposed to make one more mellow than rash, is it not? 

 

[Dean22]

Imposing draconian and frivilous laws on the majority for their own smug self satisfaction.

Yes, because anti-marijuana laws and Ontario's new anti-smoking laws are so "draconian and frivilous" (spelt frivolous).


Sorry, but if that isn't pro-smoke then you need a new vocabulary to articulate what you meant in your last sentence.

In one sentence you called anti-smoking/anti-marijuana laws "cruel" and "ridiculous".

 

[armyvern]

Oh boy, I hit quote and not modify. Might as well quickly ridicule and make assumptions of me using drugs.

Just because you told me I could; my little gift of munchies for you (NOT the hawt babe):

 

[armyvern]

Yes, because anti-marijuana laws and Ontario's new anti-smoking laws are so "draconian and frivilous" (spelt frivolous).


Sorry, but if that isn't pro-smoke then you need a new vocabulary to articulate what you meant in your last sentence.

In one sentence you called anti-smoking/anti-marijuana laws "cruel" and "ridiculous".

Scrap the last post I just made ... I'm now searching for an even bigger bag of Doritos for ya ...

 

[Jungle]

What have your  observations been with people that abuse alcohol?

dileas

tess

Tess, as a CSM in a RegF Infantry Battalion, I have observed the abuse problems our young people are going through, which I suspect are similar to the civilian population, if not in numbers or density. I also know civilians with those problems (current or past).

Generally, the kids that I see using illegal drugs also consume alcohol, which is not true the other way around; same is true of most people using cocaine, they also usually consume alcohol, and pot !! Those that I have seen using illegal drugs are the below-average troops, their lives are confusing even to themselves and they are involved in f**k-up after f**k-up; they are the 10% that take up 90% of my time and effort.

As for those who only drink, in the vast majority of cases they are easy to bring back on the right track, and when  a kid gets a DUI, it's usually the last time we have alcohol-related problems with him. But yes, people who drink huge quantities of alcohol have problems, but in drug-users we usually see more then one addiction.

 

[Scott]

Dean,

Walk away or go back into the warning system. You're being confrontational for the sake of being so.

I figured you'd have learned what was acceptable here by now. Between Milpoints, the warning system and the fact you've been told numerous times...

Scott
Army.ca Staff

 

[the 48th regulator]

Tess, as a CSM in a RegF Infantry Battalion, I have observed the abuse problems our young people are going through, which I suspect are similar to the civilian population, if not in numbers or density. I also know civilians with those problems (current or past).

Generally, the kids that I see using illegal drugs also consume alcohol, which is not true the other way around; same is true of most people using cocaine, they also usually consume alcohol, and pot !! Those that I have seen using illegal drugs are the below-average troops, their lives are confusing even to themselves and they are involved in f**k-up after f**k-up; they are the 10% that take up 90% of my time and effort.

As for those who only drink, in the vast majority of cases they are easy to bring back on the right track, and when  a kid gets a DUI, it's usually the last time we have alcohol-related problems with him. But yes, people who drink huge quantities of alcohol have problems, but in drug-users we usually see more then one addiction.

Jungle,

Very good points, however, before I comment I need some questions answered.

Were the 10%ers that take up most of your time, disciplinary problems from the first time entering the military, or did they gradually become one.

dileas

tess

 

[Jungle]

Jungle,

Very good points, however, before I comment I need some questions answered.

Were the 10%ers that take up most of your time, disciplinary problems from the first time entering the military, or did they gradually become one.

dileas

tess

I don't know the stats, but my guess is it would be a mix.

As an aside, in the course of my career I have personally known 2 guys who were released for alcohol-related problems; one I lost track of, the other committed suicide shortly after releasing.
Just in the past couple of years or so, I have seen close to a dozen people being shown the door for drug use, all with multiple addictions and constantly in trouble.

These are, of course, local observations, but my opinion is shaped on these.

 

[the 48th regulator]

I don't know the stats, but my guess is it would be a mix.

As an aside, in the course of my career I have personally known 2 guys who were released for alcohol-related problems; one I lost track of, the other committed suicide shortly after releasing.
Just in the past couple of years or so, I have seen close to a dozen people being shown the door for drug use, all with multiple addictions and constantly in trouble.

These are, of course, local observations, but my opinion is shaped on these.

It's just I am unsure if you are insinuating drug use caused the downfall.  The way I read it looks like this video;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W98ZyGVfTDM

As for the soldiers you have shown the door, were the soldiers sent to any form of addictions course, returned and continued to be the problem, or were they released when caught?

dileas

tess

 

[Jungle]

It's just I am unsure if you are insinuating drug use caused the downfall.  The way I read it looks like this video;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W98ZyGVfTDM

I'm not talking about crap from the 60s, I'm talking about members of the CF having these problems NOW... I know alcohol causes problems in a number of persons, however I don't look at it as problems caused by booze or drugs; the problems caused by drugs are usually in addition to alcohol problems

As for the soldiers you have shown the door, were the soldiers sent to any form of addictions course, returned and continued to be the problem, or were they released when caught?

At the end of the day, I don't show them the door, we (at unit level) just make recommendations. Everything is done according to CF rules and regulations. There are people in Ottawa who make decisions based (or not) on the unit's recommendations, however I have rarely seen Ptes/Cpls be released after one offence regarding soft drugs. Everyone is offered help, whether they accept the offer is their decision. Most are eventually shown the door, as they usually repeat the offence.