Base closures?

[dimsum]

With the cluster going on down south re tankers we can rent them to the USAF.

RCAF: Hey US military, we tank you guys and you provide our air cover, ok?

 

[dimsum]

I mean it is actually really nice to get a hour plus play time when they check in. I don’t know what they do in Australia for that but I like being able to actually give a jet sensor tasks and work them vs spitting out a 9 line and having them call bingo.

They wouldn’t fly them out to the range and then home. They deploy the squadron(s) to the range for live fire training, kind of like going to Wainwright. The ranges are “bare bases” where they have a couple of caretaker crew there full-time, but otherwise it’s empty. There are training areas near the actual home bases but not an air weapons range.

The analogy would be like having our fighter squadrons based in Calgary, Vancouver, Toronto, and Montreal to protect the cities, but deploy them to the CLAWR every few months for quals. The RAAF keeps all but one fighter squadron in the southeast to protect Sydney, Canberra, Newcastle, and Melbourne, and the remaining sqn is in Tindal (300km or so south of Darwin) to protect the north.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

RCAF: Hey US military, we tank you guys and you provide our air cover, ok? everything but firefighters and sandbaggers.

Updated it for you....

 

[markppcli]

They wouldn’t fly them out to the range and then home. They deploy the squadron(s) to the range for live fire training, kind of like going to Wainwright. The ranges are “bare bases” where they have a couple of caretaker crew there full-time, but otherwise it’s empty. There are training areas near the actual home bases but not an air weapons range.

The analogy would be like having our fighter squadrons based in Calgary, Vancouver, Toronto, and Montreal to protect the cities, but deploy them to the CLAWR every few months for quals. The RAAF keeps all but one fighter squadron in the southeast to protect Sydney, Canberra, Newcastle, and Melbourne, and the remaining sqn is in Tindal (300km or so south of Darwin) to protect the north.

Yeah fair enough. I just enjoy being able to get pick up air from them when we go to cold lake.

 

[dimsum]

Yeah fair enough. I just enjoy being able to get pick up air from them when we go to cold lake.

Sure, but you could probably also do that if they were based in YEG and went up to YOD for bomb camp or whatever.

I get that our whole point of basing the fighters where they are (YOD, YBG) is due to the NORAD mission. But let’s be serious - if we were really concerned about Bears and Blackjacks coming over the pole or through AK, we would constantly have fighters in Inuvik and other FOLs up north.

 

[markppcli]

Sure, but you could probably also do that if they were based in YEG and went up to YOD for bomb camp or whatever.

I get that our whole point of basing the fighters where they are (YOD, YBG) is due to the NORAD mission. But let’s be serious - if we were really concerned about Bears and Blackjacks coming over the pole or through AK, we would constantly have fighters in Inuvik and other FOLs up north.

Reality is that Cold Lake is about as far north as we actually care about. There’s some tbh big to be said about having a fairly open air space to operate as well. However this is probably outside the the point of this thread. Or maybe not.

 

[SupersonicMax]

Many bases support local economies and will not be closed simply for that reason : the government won’t let it happen.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Many bases support local economies and will not be closed simply for that reason : the government won’t let it happen.

I doubt that argument holds water, if it ever did, except for very small values of "local". And at small values, the politics are inconsequential.

 

[Ostrozac]

Many bases support local economies and will not be closed simply for that reason : the government won’t let it happen.

That really depends on the base. Some bases are regarded by the local powers that be to be more valuable used for other things, or are even considered a nuisance. The closure of St Hubert was robustly supported by local Montreal-area politicians, as it was felt that the redevelopment would be of greater value. The locals have been known to protest Goose Bay. Even Meaford has a lobby group proposing to turn it into a power generation station.

Regardless, when considering closure of bases for economic, rather than operational, reasons, one has to consider the cost of environmental remediation. Our historic attitude towards fuel and ammunition were not up to current standards, and for isolated rural areas, the cost of cleanup can easily exceed the value of the land — a more affordable model is putting a base in mothball/caretaker mode, as the UK seems to be doing with Suffield.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Many bases support local economies and will not be closed simply for that reason : the government won’t let it happen.

That totally depends on the riding the base is in and who they voted for.

 

[lenaitch]

The concept of 'quality of life' is so subjective. Personally, in or proximate to a small city would win out over a large one.

They wouldn’t fly them out to the range and then home. They deploy the squadron(s) to the range for live fire training, kind of like going to Wainwright. The ranges are “bare bases” where they have a couple of caretaker crew there full-time, but otherwise it’s empty. There are training areas near the actual home bases but not an air weapons range.

Still subjecting those folks to the horrors of a remote base, but I suppose it's in the numbers.

Even Meaford has a lobby group proposing to turn it into a power generation station

Only a tiny portion; about 400 acres out of approximately 17000.

 

[Retired AF Guy]

That totally depends on the riding the base is in and who they voted for.

2 PPCLI in Winnipeg would be a good example; As long as Lloyd Axworthy help his seat in Winnipeg and the Liberal were in power, they were safe. Once Axworthy and the Liberals were gone, so was the Battalion.

 

[KevinB]

2 PPCLI in Winnipeg would be a good example; As long as Lloyd Axworthy help his seat in Winnipeg and the Liberal were in power, they were safe. Once Axworthy and the Liberals were gone, so was the Battalion.

1 CMBG leaving Calgary was also rather clear.

 

[ueo]

Sure, but you could probably also do that if they were based in YEG and went up to YOD for bomb camp or whatever.

I get that our whole point of basing the fighters where they are (YOD, YBG) is due to the NORAD mission. But let’s be serious - if we were really concerned about Bears and Blackjacks coming over the pole or through AK, we would constantly have fighters in Inuvik and other FOLs up north.

How about balloons?

 

[ueo]

That really depends on the base. Some bases are regarded by the local powers that be to be more valuable used for other things, or are even considered a nuisance. The closure of St Hubert was robustly supported by local Montreal-area politicians, as it was felt that the redevelopment would be of greater value. The locals have been known to protest Goose Bay. Even Meaford has a lobby group proposing to turn it into a power generation station.

Regardless, when considering closure of bases for economic, rather than operational, reasons, one has to consider the cost of environmental remediation. Our historic attitude towards fuel and ammunition were not up to current standards, and for isolated rural areas, the cost of cleanup can easily exceed the value of the land — a more affordable model is putting a base in mothball/caretaker mode, as the UK seems to be doing with Suffield.

Umm what? Maybe nuke , please clarify what I consider to be an off the wall statement.

 

[Retired AF Guy]

1 CMBG leaving Calgary was also rather clear.

I thought that was earlier?

 

[KevinB]

I thought that was earlier

I got posted to 1VP in 1995, Currie was announced as closing shortly after I arrived…

I got out the first time in ‘97, I was technically still in for three months, but was going to UofC as most everyone had moved that APS, and no one on the rear party wanted to deal with my request to either be released early or Leave w/o Pay to start the school year.

The

 

[MacNav63]

I thought that was earlier?

Pretty sure the decision to move 1RCR out of London came in the wake of the 1988 election when the Liberals re-took the area ridings from the Tories.

 

[Retired AF Guy]

I got posted to 1VP in 1995, Currie was announced as closing shortly after I arrived…

I got out the first time in ‘97, I was technically still in for three months, but was going to UofC as most everyone had moved that APS, and no one on the rear party wanted to deal with my request to either be released early or Leave w/o Pay to start the school year.

The

Okay, now that I think about it that does make sense. I was in North Bay from '93 -'97 and I remember talking about it then, probably '96-'97 timeframe.

 

[MacNav63]

Okay, now that I think about it that does make sense. I was in North Bay from '93 -'97 and I remember talking about it then, probably '96-'97 timeframe.

The Liberals won 4 seats in AB in the '93 election, the first time they'd won seats there since '68. All of them were in Edmonton...