Base closures?

[aesop081]

RCAF Airbase: well the name says it... it must have landing strips to get the name...

RCAF bases should all be know simply as RCAF {insert name}. "RCAF Comox" for example.

 

[Nfld Sapper]

RCAF or CF Station: bring back the name... for radar and radio sites

CFS exists, CFS ST.JOHN'S, CFS ALERT, CFS LEITRIM come to mind......

 

[Sub_Guy]

CFB Esquimalt needs a proper navy sounding name like Halifax has HMC Dockyard

It does (unless things have changed).  HMC Dockyard Esquimalt, and Naden (Admin side of the base).  I do believe the signs are still up for both, but it has been a few years since I have had the pleasure of visiting Esq, and to be honest I wasn't paying attention to the signs.  But when I was posted there, I do know that they were there.

 

[Old Sweat]

;D Most importantly are the army bases going to be called CFB or Garrisons? :-\ I want garrison as the official army base designation!!! :nod:

Garrison: for installations with Canadian Army units (Tac Hel squadrons don't count) (ie Edmonton Garrison, Valcartier Garrison, Petawawa Garrison)

Camp: for training areas (Camp Meaford, Camp Farnham, etc)

Ideas?

In the Canadian Army places like Petawawa, Shilo, Gagetown and Valcartier were Camps. I am not sure how it worked in Kingston and Calgary, but I think they had Camp Commanders who probably ran all the army stuff in the garrison. Being the army, all sorts of variations in names evolved. Calgary had Camp Sarcee and Currie Barracks; Kingston had Fort Frontenac and Barriefield Camp as well as some other stuff scattered around town; and Edmonton had Griesbach Barracks. There was Camp Borden and Camp Ipperwash and Camp Picton, but Wolseley Barracks in London.

Edit to add: I just consulted my copy of the 1965 Canadian Army List and there are a few camps listed, as well as other installations which are titleless. These include Calgary, London, Kingston and Chilliwack. The brigade headquarters were separate, as were the commands and areas. And for a what goes around, comes around moment, the tactical formation in Petawawa was the 2nd Canadian Infantry Brigade Group, The Special Service Force, commanded by Brigadier JA Dextraze. Guess we know where he got his idea for the formation in Petawawa when he became CDS.

 

[Maxadia]

Sure ......take all the civies and rehire them as the "CF Rename Battalion"......

;D

 

[Jed]

So what is happening to ASU Wainwright and ASU Shilo? or are they currently CFB Wainwright and CFB Shilo?

 

[Edward Campbell]

Further two what Old Sweat sais: the Canadian Army, circa 1960, was organized on a geographic basis and common services and support were provided, on the same geographic basis, to all comers - regardless of who was where on an org chart. Things with straightforward names like "Transport Company" and rather less clear ones like "Camp Ordnance Railhead" and "Works Company" provided support to one and all. Soldiers in brigade service units, S&T companies, Ordnance Field Parks and Field Workshops, did their combat jobs in garrison, too: delivering field supplies and munitions, repairing tanks and trucks and so on. Not a whole lot changed, over time, except that we deprived the service "tail" of people and we muddied the organizational structure so that we wasted the too few people we had.

In my opinion there is too much organization in the CF, too many boundaries that prevent logistical element A from proving support to combat unit B. It shouldn't matter what formation badge you wear - if you are in the support business you ought to be able, willing, indeed eager to provide support to all and sundry. If your chain of command says that the unit next door has go to the next town to get support that you can provide then the organization is flawed - the empire builders have defeated the soldiers.

We worry too much about what something is called or what badge is painted on its sign and too little about how much work it can do.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

What he said!  :nod:

 

[Dissident]

if you are in the support business you ought to be able, willing, indeed eager to provide support to all and sundry. If your chain of command says that the unit next door has go to the next town to get support that you can provide then the organization is flawed - the empire builders have defeated the soldiers.

This.

 

[McG]

In my opinion there is too much organization in the CF, too many boundaries that prevent logistical element A from proving support to combat unit B. It shouldn't matter what formation badge you wear - if you are in the support business you ought to be able, willing, indeed eager to provide support to all and sundry.

Indeed.  There alone is enough argument to insist the roll-back-the-clock movement should leave bases alone.  We don't need to establish unnecessary cultural boundaries to support by applying our various tribal names to specific bases.

I've heard the RCAF is looking to separate bases from wings - allowing WComd to focus on operational business while a BComd focuses on running the fixed establishment (and all the support & outreach obligations that come with that).  This would bring us back closer to the vision for bases when they were all renamed CFB.

 

[Edward Campbell]

The structures put in place when the original CFB system was introduced were a big part of the problem: organizational boundaries and silos were created that seriously hampered operations and support.

Back over 30 years ago I took command of an army unit that was a lodger on an integrated/unified base. It took a really good BComd, a sapper, a lot of heart ache and effort to, finally, develop some common sense, military support relationships - but he and I both got fairly regular rockets from Command HQs that were both much more interested in featherbedding than operating or supporting. We both survived but not without some black marks and reputations for not being "team players." This was 15 years after CFBs became the norm, and in that 15 years a whole new culture had taken root and blossomed - a culture that put command badges above military support issues.

 

[McG]

The structures put in place when the original CFB system was introduced were a big part of the problem: organizational boundaries and silos were created that seriously hampered operations and support.

... This was 15 years after CFBs became the norm, and in that 15 years a whole new culture had taken root and blossomed - a culture that put command badges above military support issues.

By my read of your description, the problematic organizational silos that you describe were the initial manifestations of re-tribalizing ourselves and the command badge was (at that time) the rallying cultural boundary to support.

 

[bridges]

Comd CTC did the same yesterday at 1530 for all mil and civ pers belonging to CTC. All of this info was briefed to the whole crowd....closures and all.....

I'm envious.  We have yet to have a town hall or meeting of any kind, about the cutbacks - base closures, personnel or otherwise.  Until something comes through the CoC, Army.ca is my town hall - and the info has been quite interesting.  Thanks to everyone who's shared factual info. 

 

[aesop081]

I'm envious.  We have yet to have a town hall or meeting of any kind, about the cutbacks - base closures, personnel or otherwise.  Until something comes through the CoC, Army.ca is my town hall - and the info has been quite interesting.  Thanks to everyone who's shared factual info. 

Your location says:

Ottawa ON

All major groupings in the NCR had mass briefings last Wednesday at various locations in the NCR. I saw the list in my email last Tuesday afternoon.

 

[bridges]

My unit has neither held nor been invited to a town hall.  I heard about them at the time, as well.  I'm confident some info will eventually come, but in the meantime, the silence is deafening.

Perhaps we aren't included in one of the "major groupings".  Anyway, there's looking something up, and there's testimony from the field.  Both can be true at the same time. 

 

[aesop081]

but in the meantime, the silence is deafening.

All information that was presented is freely available on the DIN, including the very same PPT that was used at the briefings last week.

There is no hidden information, no "silence".

 

[bridges]

All information that was presented is freely available on the DIN, including the very same PPT that was used at the briefings last week.

There is no hidden information, no "silence".

There is DEFINITELY silence, in that people in some units still don't know which programs or personnel are being cut.  You may know everything you need to know, but others are still waiting. 

As for the ppt used at the briefings - if you happen to know its location on the DIN, I'd be most grateful.  Cheers.

 

[AmmoTech90]

The information is on the DWAN, under the VCDS website, a list of many divestments.  If you do not have DWAN access, ask someone in your CoC who does to provide the information.

 

[bridges]

Thanks for your time.

For anyone else who may still be looking for a list of areas where cuts are being made, here's a start:
http://defenceteam-equipedeladefense.mil.ca/change-changement/sr-rs/sr-rs-eng.asp

Note that just because a program appears on the list doesn't mean it's cut entirely.  Some are gone, and others are reduced. 

 

[FSTO]

It shouldn't matter what formation badge you wear - if you are in the support business you ought to be able, willing, indeed eager to provide support to all and sundry. If your chain of command says that the unit next door has go to the next town to get support that you can provide then the organization is flawed - the empire builders have defeated the soldiers.

We worry too much about what something is called or what badge is painted on its sign and too little about how much work it can do.

Case in point. Here in Regina we have 15 Wing Moose Jaw 45 minutes down the road. We now (after a pile of staffing) are allowed to use the medical and dental facilities at the base. But for PSP support we are still forced to use 17 Wing  Winnipeg (if fact they fly a team out 3 times a year to do our EXPRES tests) meanwhile there is a fully funded and manned (personned?) PSP organization at Moose Jaw.