Attempted assassination of Donald Trump 13 July 2024

[Booter]

Where'd you see that?

I think the Right is mostly just responding to the Left's victim blaming here.

Anyways, here's Erik Prince on the matter:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1812538250931642534

And here's another liberal thought leader on the matter:

So. As an aside- there is a mission decision paralysis that’s creeping in on almost all profiles. It exists in military as well.

As we get more “realtime” information into command and various overwatch apparatus’s there is less “compromise authority” baked in- even where it’s written in- the structure implies that shooter observations go up, and up, and bounce around before getting emerging permission. It’s not explicit- but it’s observable in decisions made by people like overwatch snipers. It’s going to get worse. It’s something being explored for ways to get around it.

It’s a byproduct of real time info and things like live feeds. “ Trust the shooter but maybe double check…” it builds in these little bumps and pauses where a decade ago the void would be filled with decisions.

You can see it in course candidates too- they’ll go looking for confirmation or permission rather than committing to a mouse trap/IA they built.

It’s a problem. And it crossed my mind watching little clips. I have no special knowledge of this event like some others here- it just crossed my mind. And again when reading through Princes tweet.

 

[Remius]

This is a turning point for the US. Both sides can either double down on the same garbage rhetoric that had Lock Her Up chants, Supreme Court justices threatened and a presidential candidate shot, or they can realize that you can vehemently hate ideas without dehumanizing the other party. I don't see a middle ground between those 2 positions and it's going to take a very public joint statement/press conference from Biden and Trump shaking hands on stage and unequivocally stating political violence is unacceptable to calm the waters.

I have no doubt that both sides in the US love their country. But they also absolutely hate each other. That is what needs to be overcome.

 

[Brad Sallows]

I have no doubt that both sides in the US love their country. But they also absolutely hate each other. That is what needs to be overcome.

The easiest way is to stop interfering in peoples' lives.

 

[Lumber]

The easiest way is to stop interfering in peoples' lives.

Exactly! Re-instate Roe v Wade!

 

[KevinB]

Okay I’m back in NoVA.

OS stuff:
Trump as a candidate gets a personal security detail, as a former POTUS he gets PPD (Presidential Protection Detail) which is larger than what a candidate would have, he also had a CAT team and a CS team (the two dudes on the roof).

Now having done the two dudes on a roof thing before, there is only so much that 2 guys can watch (as one is supposed to be the primary shooter on the rifle at all times, and the other is doing observation) for POTUS there are more than one CS team. I won’t get into CS stuff beyond that, two of my co-workers are former USSS CS.

Venues: Depending on the size of the venue and the size of the detail, a lot of internal and all the external areas are left to be watched by State Police, Other Fed LE and local LE, as well as UD and Agents from the local (or local ish) USSS field office - many of the non PPD, CAT and CS have limited to no tactical training.

CS will ideally have had a shooter on the advance to do some prep work, but I don’t know if this team had that option, and may have been brought in with CAT just prior and gotten a brief from the PPD agent on the advance —

PA is one of many states that allows for open carry of rifles, so some dude with a rifle (or a bunch of guys with rifles) outside the venue isn’t going to be shut down, sure you would watch them — but one also needs to remember that a lot of MAGA folks show up to these in camo and rifles - former President Trump isn’t going to let any LEO’s inc the USSS screw with his supporters exercising their legal rights to firearms possession.

Having had to deal with that as a LEO in the past, I can tell you it is what it is, 99.999% of firearm owners are LE supportive and law abiding folks, so one has to be cognizant of that fact, but a good friend of mine reminded me years ago - there is a gun at every call I go to, mine. Meaning that any situation has the potential to escalate due to one’s own service weapon, and so it’s a nature of the business aspect and one needs to deal with it. If I get stopped there is a 99.99% I’m armed, so I’m polite and inform the officer that I am armed - I’ve yet to had a problem from that outside of an incident several years ago at a State Police barracks when a young trooper apparently figured the machine gun, suppressor and gear I had was for nefarious purposes despite me asking where the Tac Team Sgt I was supposed to meet up with was. He ended up having a really shitty day when the Major running NJ SWAT came out to see me and lost his mind that I was being accosted by a patrol trooper.

/ tangent

At the end of the day the FBI, USSS, and many other organizations are going to conduct a very thorough AAR on this incident. As it was a high profile shooting by Fed LEO’s involving a fatality, the FBI will also investigate that aspect separately.

Wrapping one’s tinfoil too tight isn’t going to help anyone.

 

[Jarnhamar]

In this video it looks like a police sniper is possibly watching the shooter. At the last second lifts his head up and seems to stumble a bit when the shots are fired and doesn't seem to return fire.

View this content on Instagram

View this content on Instagram

 

[KevinB]

In this video it looks like a police sniper is possibly watching the shooter. At the last second lifts his head up and seems to stumble a bit when the shots are fired and doesn't seem to return fire.

View this content on Instagram

View this content on Instagram

That is the CS team.



As to why they didn’t shoot earlier, I’ve heard a number of legitimate reasons, but since the officer who shot hasn’t chimed in (for fairly self evident reasons) I don’t think it’s worth adding, as it’s all hearsay.

Plus CAT doing extraction.


Mandatory business plug Note the LAW Tactical folding stock adapter on their 11.5” KAC SR-16

 

[brihard]

First time I’ve seen this video- looks like the shooter on the roof crawling into position while people try to get the attention of police.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1812644013604028916

 

[KevinB]

First time I’ve seen this video- looks like the shooter on the roof crawling into position while people try to get the attention of police.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1812644013604028916

I’d been sent a similar video prior to messaging you — so you can understand the situation the LE and CS team where in based on what had been relayed about him and others in the area with weapons.

It is alleged he was a registered Republican, and that he was milling around with some other Republican “elements” - keep in mind that Proud Boy and OathKeepers like showing up armed to these rallies - and some keep weapons and conduct ‘over watch’ outside the venues, so it can be very muddled for the LEO’s on the ground to be able to figure out who is a bad guy and who is just a potential threat.

 

[OldSolduer]

FWIW I think it was one lone shooter. No conspiracy.

Was there a grassy knoll nearby?

 

[OldSolduer]

So. As an aside- there is a mission decision paralysis that’s creeping in on almost all profiles. It exists in military as well.

As we get more “realtime” information into command and various overwatch apparatus’s there is less “compromise authority” baked in- even where it’s written in- the structure implies that shooter observations go up, and up, and bounce around before getting emerging permission. It’s not explicit- but it’s observable in decisions made by people like overwatch snipers. It’s going to get worse. It’s something being explored for ways to get around it.

It’s a byproduct of real time info and things like live feeds. “ Trust the shooter but maybe double check…” it builds in these little bumps and pauses where a decade ago the void would be filled with decisions.

You can see it in course candidates too- they’ll go looking for confirmation or permission rather than committing to a mouse trap/IA they built.

It’s a problem. And it crossed my mind watching little clips. I have no special knowledge of this event like some others here- it just crossed my mind. And again when reading through Princes tweet.

I stated a number of years ago over supervision and micro managing was a problem.
People need to be given some lefts and rights of arcs and let them be unless they stray.
The company commander shouldn’t be telling number 1 rifleman 1 Sect 1 Pl anything. That’s what Pl Comds and Sect comds are for.

 

[lenaitch]

Pure speculation on my part, obviously, but it is possible that, if the USSS sniper saw the shooter, they might have assumed it was local LEO and were trying to get clarification. Multiple agencies, different comms, 'fog of war', and all that.

Venues: Depending on the size of the venue and the size of the detail, a lot of internal and all the external areas are left to be watched by State Police, Other Fed LE and local LE, as well as UD and Agents from the local (or local ish) USSS field office - many of the non PPD, CAT and CS have limited to no tactical training.

I was part of the security package for a principal in Reagan's entourage during the Toronto G7 in 1988. The security officer was plucked from the FBI field office and had no special training and, back then, we had no communications with him beyond yelling. I wasn't much better since I had been plucked from another area of my service but at least I had some training.

 

[McG]

Right, but the thing about the internet is that it’s flooded with the absolutely stupidest people, and their keyboards apparently work.

It’s also flooded with bots & trolls whose function is to post stupid, inflammatory things.

 

[kkwd]

I’d been sent a similar video prior to messaging you — so you can understand the situation the LE and CS team where in based on what had been relayed about him and others in the area with weapons.

It is alleged he was a registered Republican, and that he was milling around with some other Republican “elements” - keep in mind that Proud Boy and OathKeepers like showing up armed to these rallies - and some keep weapons and conduct ‘over watch’ outside the venues, so it can be very muddled for the LEO’s on the ground to be able to figure out who is a bad guy and who is just a potential threat.

Where can we go to confirm any of the info presented in your post?

 

[brihard]

Where can we go to confirm any of the info presented in your post?

The fact that he was a registered Republican has been public since the name came out, and has been verified by various parties based on address. Easy to Google that. I believe he has also been found to have made a small cash donation to a Democrat cause in the past couple years. Neither fact is likely particularly meaningful.

The presence of right wing groups open carrying at events like this is quite routine in parts of the U.S., so it has a distinct air of plausibility. I haven’t seen it reported on in this particular case, but it’s normal enough that it probably simply wouldn’t be.

I’ve seen a few interviews today with the shooter’s former classmates. Fairly consistent story being told of him having been a loner/outcast type and being bullied. For what that’s worth.

 

[Haggis]

Imagine if Kennedy had been assassinated in a world of modern social media.

This is well on its way to being that stupid. Might even get dumber than that.

See my post earlier about the Apollo 11 landing.

 

[kkwd]

The presence of right wing groups open carrying at events like this is quite routine in parts of the U.S., so it has a distinct air of plausibility. I haven’t seen it reported on in this particular case, but it’s normal enough that it probably simply wouldn’t be.

Either they were there or they weren't. Until there is firm evidence disclosed we should apply the 48 hour rule.

 

[brihard]

Either they were there or they weren't. Until there is firm evidence disclosed we should apply the 48 hour rule.

That doesn’t prevent us discussing things. I also know and trust Kev well enough at this point to put a bit of stock in his judgement about what he shares and what he doesn’t, based on what he’s been able to speak to in the past that held up. Nobody here is staking any claim that needs defending. It’s an interesting report that may or may not hold up. Given the context and setting I’d be surprised if it weren’t true.

 

[TacticalTea]

Either they were there or they weren't. Until there is firm evidence disclosed we should apply the 48 hour rule.

I disagree, it's a pattern you see across such events. Nothing outlandish about the fact that the US right wing is super pro-gun and occasionally sees armed supporters at its events.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Pennsylvania is a state where you have to be affiliated with a party to vote in the primaries. Lots of people register with their anti party in order to dilute the vote. It doesn't matter what you're registered as because you can still vote for someone else. Being a registered Republican or a registered Democrat means nothing really. All it means is you get to vote in the primary. For who, is really your choice once inside the voting booth.