Are we prepard for a terrorist attack or any other attack

[childs56]

After seeing the ability with in Canada over the past few years respond to different situations, forest fires, ice storms, earth quake preparedness etc I have come to the conclusion that we are not ready to support operations with in our country on anything more then a small localized problem efficiently. We have minimum security on our bases and such will one day pay the price for this lack of leadership to protect what our military uses for defence of our country. Any person can drive on pretty much any base or living area of bases through our Canada and reek havoc. Not to mention the ability to do sabotage and destruction with out even a glimpse of our security force used to protect our bases and personally. How would we respond to an emergency in Canada such as an attack. Well as every emergency response unit has their own way of doing things with very little training with them selves through interdepartment for such incidents we would be in the hurt locker. We have seen these disaster response seminars or training events but they are usually local to the immediate  area and are preplanned months ahead of schedule so every one knows what to expect. the participation is by those who know what is going on. I will say BC ferries does emergency training every year with their local authorities, and honestly i think they are the most prepared out of any group with in Canada to handle one of their own emergencies. They gain the use of all services and explain to them what they require, then wait for the feed back from the local groups as to what they can do. It is a decent plan to which the rest of Canada needs to follow.  We have become complacent, how would people respond to soldiers patrolling the streets of Canadian cities with rifles after such an attack as happened in London, or New York. How would the military respond to such an event. What can we do with the type of equipment we have and where best to deploy it. How many people with in the emergency services including RCMP, OPP hospitals, the military etc are trained and have a plan in effect for mass casualties or disaster. Responding to an earth quake or flood is much different then an attack, such things as security from future attacks is needed, how about the response from bomb squads, or NBCD personnel. Who really understands what our weaknesses are. We don't we have a false sense of security with in Canada and even worse within our own response teams, Such as the Military and local government. Nobody wants to face the reality that we have very little plans in force. We have these plans as to what we would like to do but these are relying on the fact that certain resources and such are available. The reality is we have very little in the way of those. We also have very little training in responding to these situations. Some will say you cannot train to respond to every situation. well we haven't trained for any situation. It is sad to think the minister for emergency response and terrorism stated today that we are more then ready for such an incident if it ever happens here. Yet only thing is, she has only seen a plan on paper and never seen or implemented any of their plans. It is scary to think of this. I for one know we are not ready and will not be for a while to come. Lets hope that we do not see any thing materialize here on our soil until we have more implementation our our first responders part.

 

[CH1]

CTD:

What you say is true.  As for ppl responding to armed soldiers on the streets & curfews, well the best thing to look at is the November 1970 FLQ crisis after action reports.  While most had no problem with curfew, they were not happy with us on the streets with wpns L & L.  It was not a pretty picture, in some cases.

Hopefully some one wakes up & tries to correct the situation.

Cheers

 

[Black Watch]

I hope we're prepared for a soviet attack... Let's roll ex. Tocsin C!!!!!

 

[Slim]

Fat, dumb and happy was yesterday!

Time for the country to wake up and sniff reality!

 

[Black Watch]

imaginne this... The government raises the level of security and we ear the follwing on the radio:


"This is a national emergency. An enemy nuclear attack is considered probable. Sirens are or have sounded the nuclear alert warning. No, here is a message from the prime minister, the Right hnourable John Deifenbeker"

 

[McG]

'No specific threat,' but Canada could be target: McLellan
Last Updated Thu, 07 Jul 2005 22:38:39 EDT
CBC News

Canada is not immune to the kind of attacks that killed dozens of people using London's public transit network Thursday, security officials warned in the wake of the bombings.

Public Safety Minister Anne McLellan said in the wake of the British attacks, security has been tightened for all transportation systems across Canada, including Via Rail, CN and CP as well as local subway and mass transit systems.

"There is no specific threat to Canada or Canadians at this time, but you have to be prepared, you have to take all precautionary measures," McLellan told reporters in Edmonton.

"We will defend our values and way of life against all forms of extremism," she added.

The deputy prime minister said there's no way of guaranteeing bombers won't strike here, given that Canada made it onto a list of al-Qaeda targets for sending troops to Afghanistan to support the U.S.-led mission against that country's former government after the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks against the United States.

The other countries on the al-Qaeda list released in November 2002 were Great Britain, France, Italy, Germany and Australia.

Spain later became a target because it sent troops to Iraq when U.S. President George W. Bush's administration decided to invade and topple Saddam Hussein's government.

Suicide bombings later confirmed to be the work of al-Qaeda militants killed 191 train commuters in and around the Spanish capital of Madrid in March 2004.

Canadian Security Intelligence Service spokesperson Barbara Campion agreed that Canada shouldn't be complacent about being safe from extremist violence, given its place on the al-Qaeda hit list.

"We're actually the only country that hasn't been attacked, either directly or indirectly," she said.

"Spain, Australia, the U.K. â “ they were on that list. And it's not to scare people, but people need to be vigilant and to know that the threat of terrorism is very real. It's not just an abstract concept, it's there and it's real."

Campion said security officials here are working closely with intelligence experts in the U.S., Britain and Europe to safeguard against more attacks like the one targeting London commuters.

In the meantime, McLellan advised that Canadians travelling or living in London to pay close attention to cautions in local media, and be especially vigilant in large crowds.

Martin speaks of 'acts of cowardice and terror'

Later Thursday, Prime Minister Paul Martin issued a statement from the Group of Eight summit in Scotland.

"Our collective freedom has come under assault today by those who would use violence and murder to force extremism upon the world," Martin said.

"We must and we will stand against these terrorists. And we will do so together. And we will prevail."

He said the west is winning the war on terror, despite the latest bloody attacks, and added that the G-8 will continue its discussions on issues such as global poverty and the environment.

Meanwhile, the prime minister said, he has ordered flags on all Canadian government buildings to fly at half-mast as a sign of mourning.

He also said officials in Ottawa are checking to see whether any Canadians were hurt in the blasts, though early reports indicated that wasn't the case.

Foreign Affairs has set up a hotline for Canadians with strong reasons to believe Canadian relatives might have been travelling in London Thursday morning, though.

Anyone concerned over a missing person should have on hand the person's full name, date of birth and passport number before calling the toll-free hotline at 1-800-606-5499.

 

[1feral1]

I don't think we can ever be prepared for it, but to train for it is a different story. Training in the UK made a difference in the survivability of the victims.

In Australia, our PM has told us an attack here will happen, and we too train for the scenerio, lets just hope it does not happen.

Time will tell.

Wes

 

[x-grunt]

CTD, can I request you break up your paragraphs? You have good stuff to say, but one huge block of text makes it tough to plow through.

Thanks.

 

[45506445210414924]

http://www.canada.com/news/national/story.html?id=913440d8-e9b1-45d5-b933-42f545321427

I was just reading this over, seemed proper for this discussion.

 

[Manimal]

"Meanwhile, the prime minister said, he has ordered flags on all Canadian government buildings to fly at half-mast as a sign of mourning"


LADIES AND GENTELMEN OUR LEADER......

good job eh, we really need new speech writers for this guy, cause that just doesn't cut it.
lets make Canada look good for the world eh.

 

[Manimal]

our gov't saying it will happen and we can't stop it, is simply not good enough. there has not been a successful attack on the US since 9/11 (US soil that is) and they have stopped a few attacks before it got going. why can't we do the same. are our values and culture not good enough to find a way to protect, and prepare? why wait, and see..... do something about it! maybe it's time we started spending money to protect our CANADA

 

[childs56]

I am pretty sure that CSIS has stopped more then a few attacks upon Canadian soil. The problem lies with the one that they fail to find out about. This is the one that with better training and a proper attitude from all services involved would result in much less damage not only to lives but also infrastructure. We need to train to build up the lack of skills out their. And also to further the ones that are.

The typical Canadian attitude of "ah well wait till it happens then we will make do with what we have" has got to go to the wayside and be replaced with the lets train attitude.
Amazing though all the talk from the bosses on these matters. all say things are good yet they all know that they really arent. We are only treading water till we get tired so to speak.

 

[scm77]

http://www.torsun.canoe.ca/Comment/Commentary/2005/07/13/pf-1128941.html

Maybe it's the heat, but we find ourselves agreeing with Deputy PM Anne McLellan, who this week talked rather bluntly about the risks Canada faces from terrorists.

"I don't believe that Canadians are as psychologically prepared for a terrorist attack as we probably should be," she told a conference on emergency preparedness here in Toronto. "I think that we have, perhaps for far too long, thought that these are things that happen somewhere else."

Interestingly, McLellan defied the conventional wisdom (particularly amongst Canada's chattering classes) and declared Canada's decision to sit out the American-led war in Iraq does not exempt us from from potential terrorist attacks. "I don't think that is the motivation of Osama bin Laden and his people," she said.

But while we agree with McLellan's remarks, we can't let the hypocrisy inherent in them go without comment.

After all, decades of successive Liberal governments have neutered the Canadian military, all but erased our proud military history, and resulted in at least one generation of Canadians believing that we're nothing but a peacekeeping nation that has no enemies on Earth.

In recent years, the deaths of Canadian soldiers in combat have deeply affected Canadians and led to an enormous outpouring of grief. So we can only imagine the kind of psychological scars that would be left on this nation from a terrorist attack that claimed large numbers of civilian casualties.

Not to mention that in the days and months following the horrific Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks on the United States, former deputy PM John Manley was the only senior Liberal who seemed to truly understand what was at stake. "Canada has soldiers buried all over Europe because we fought in the defence of liberty," he said then. "And we're not backing away from a challenge now because we think somebody might get hurt."

By comparison, then-PM Jean Chretien never directly addressed the nation (even though some two dozen Canadians died in the 9/11 attacks), blamed terrorism on poverty and American greed, vacillated over whether Canada would join the U.S. war in Afghanistan, and skipped out on a planned visit to Ground Zero in New York so he could attend a Liberal fundraiser instead.

In short, the Liberals have done everything they can since 9/11 to downplay the terrorist threat to Canada -- ignoring warnings about border security and terrorists living on our own soil, and refusing to close the gaps in our refugee and immigration system. They seem to believe Canada's tolerance and diversity will somehow overcome backpack bombs and hijacked airplanes.

And now McLellan says Canadians aren't ready to deal with the reality of terrorism?

Gee, we wonder why.

 

[edadian]

Any immigration and refugee system's problem we have is nothing compared with the US problem. This is a nation of immigrants and refugees and refugees come here looking to escape terror and intolerance. London has found out the bombers were all British citizens who's families have been there for decades.

As for are we prepared, Canada has never broadcast its security activities and isn't about to now. The attack against us will probally come in December or January, right before the election Martin said he would call. I base this on the following story on the BBC site.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/4678969.stm

One thing we could do is strengthen the border with the US, as long as it remains 'undefended' it will be a major threat for both countires. We need a sort of bulkhead system in North America as well as within our three countries. An example of this is what is happening in Europe.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4680163.stm

As for our leaders they are being very Liberal in a MacKenzie King satisfy everyone and no one kind of way. CBC has reported Martin has had briefings on Toronto subway security incidents in the last 2 years. The lack of public acknowledgement may be to avoid alienating certain political circles.
http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/07/13/ttc-martin050713.html

 

[Bug Guy]

How many people with in the emergency services including RCMP, OPP hospitals, the military etc are trained and have a plan in effect for mass casualties or disaster. Responding to an earth quake or flood is much different then an attack, such things as security from future attacks is needed, how about the response from bomb squads, or NBCD personnel.  The reality is we have very little in the way of those. We also have very little training in responding to these situations. Some will say you cannot train to respond to every situation. well we haven't trained for any situation. It is sad to think the minister for emergency response and terrorism stated today that we are more then ready for such an incident if it ever happens here.

I conceed that the quantity has to be fleshed out, but it is happening.  There's a bunch of military folks on a large air base in ON who work next to a water tower.  They are tasked to do this and are on call.  On short notice they will respond to any CT CBRNE incident and work as an integral part of a team with RCMP, Heath Canada and OPP.  Their CBRNE skills and equipment represent a new capability that many are unaware of, and are prepare to respond to task that members of the higher chain fail to understand.  You are right.  The plans are not in place or refined to the degree to which they should, but the resources do exist and are prepared.

:skull:

 

[McG]

Police lack terror training
Police chief expects country will face attack
Juliet O'Neill
CanWest News Service
Saturday, July 23, 2005

OTTAWA
Policing in Canada hasn't adapted to handle the spectre of suicide bombers and this country may not be prepared "if an all-out terrorist war starts in Canada," says a policing expert.

However, Newfoundland Royal Constabulary Chief Richard Deering said Canadian police are trained to deal with armed criminals and those instincts would kick in if they are ever confronted by a suicide bomber. He also cautioned against paranoia about terrorism.

"We don't want to live in a police state," Deering, chairman of the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police organized crime committee, emphasized in an interview.

He said it would be inappropriate to comment on events in London, where plainclothes police Friday chased a suspicious man in a subway station and killed him in front of startled passengers.

However, he said that while police here aren't specifically trained for suicide bombers, "they would use as much force as is necessary to stop the threat, keeping in mind public safety and officer safety."

Officers are trained to deal with criminals -- terrorists are simply criminals motivated by radical and extreme ideology, he explained.

"Do we train the beat officer for anti-terrorist activities ? No, I don't think we do," Deering said.

"There are some organizations in Canada that do have some anti-terrorist responsibilities and they certainly have specialized training in how to deal with terrorist activity. But where it manifests itself on the street, for example, in a subway station or a bus station or an airport or a marine port, where we're most vulnerable, it's just beat cops responding as they would and hoping that the training that they have is sufficient to get them through the day.

"If an all-out terrorist war starts in Canada, I'm not sure we're well prepared to deal with it," he added.

"I don't think we've been naive in terms of preparing as well as we can but again, until the battle starts, and you see what you're up against, it's really hard to put it in place, particularly when it costs a lot of money."

Until then, he said, police try to prepare for every eventuality but they can't go overboard either. Peoples' rights and freedoms have to be respected, as well.

John Thompson, head of the Mackenzie Institute, a Canadian terrorism thin-tank, said domestic police forces have reorganized in the last five years to share federal, regional and site specific criminal intelligence gathering. But training beat cops is sporadic and sparse.

"Some of the provincial anti-terrorist sections run training seminars," he said. "But like a lot of our citizens, beat cops will have a great deal of difficulty

accepting the reality of the threat until the threat manifests here."

Neither Deering nor Thompson can see Canada going the way of a country like Israel where armed police are everywhere and personal bags are checked when citizens go about their business or shopping -- unless Canada finds itself facing a similar security threat.

But Thompson also predicted Canada will suffer a terrorist attack at some point.

"We've got jihadists here, that much is certain, but we don't have the critical mass of them that they have in other countries."

 

[PJ D-Dog]

The entire Canadian attitude toward terrorism is based in smug complacency.  I have many buddies of mine who are still serving in the CF and they tell me how there is no anti-terrorism training of any sort in the general populous of the CF (except maybe JFT units).  The attitude in which this is presented also alarms me as I am told that Canada is a "peace loving nation" and how "no terrorists are flying planes into our buildings".

As an anti-terrorism instructor for the Marine Corps, much of this stuff is my bread and butter.  When I visited Canada this summer and last summer, I was alarmed at the looseness at the border and the lack of any real security at the smaller border crossings into Canada.  Coming back to the American side, they registered my liscence plate in the computer, asked me my business and I had to show two forms of ID which were actually run in their system before I was allowed to cross into the US...And I'm a naturalized US citizen.

Here is a little story:

In June of this year, I drove to northern New Brunswick and crossed the border at Hamlin, Maine.  This is a small border crossing into Canada that is open for business 18 hours a day.  When I arrived at the Canadian border house, the Canada Customs agent spoke to me in French and said "are you just going into town?" and I replied in French, "yes, just in town for the evening" and I drove off.

This was my first entry into Canada in nearly a year.  I was driving an american vehicle with Vriginia plates on it and the back was full of luggage etc..  I was never asked where I live, what my name is, what my business in town was nor did I even have to produce one single piece of identification.  In addition, my plate number was not taken down  nor was anything entered into a computer for any type of check.

This lack of security at our border crossing is criminally alarming to say the least.  If a bad guy wants to get into Canada from the US, he certainly won't be going through any major border crossing.  There is a serious gap in the training and level of awarness at the borders.  I really don't think this is an isolated incident either. I crossed at other small ports of entry along the Maine/New Brunswick border and they operate similarly.

As for security on Canadian military installations, I visited CFB Gagetown twice in May 2004.  On my first trip, I was in civilian clothing.  It was during a base force protection exercise.  I stopped at the Commissionaire's shack and got a pass to enter the base using my US military ID.  When I arrived at the check point, I showed them my pass and ID card, told them the building I was goin too and I was let through.

As I drove on the base, I encountered another check point and the routine was the same.  I parked my vehicle and entered the base headquarters building on the strength of my ID card.  I was looking for a friend of mine who used to work in that building and I roamed around for ten minutes before someone stopped me and asked if I needed directions.  I then went to another building and found my old buddy.

The next day, I went to the base again but this time in my Marine Corps uniform.  I was asked for two pieces of ID at the initial check point.  What took place here was equally alarming.

As I sat in my vehicle, the young private asked for my ID.  I showed her my US military ID card.  She looked at me and said "I don't think we can accept this".  She stood directly in front of my driver side door (the place you are not supposed to stand).  She then called a MCpl over and they began to debate in front of my driver's side side.  They then called for the Sgt to come over and then all three of them were standing in the same location.

Had I been a bad guy, I could have taken them out with a grenade or a pistol or an IED.  They were not able to see what I had in my lap, if I would have had anything.  They then asked me for a secondary form of ID.  At this point, I became aggressive in my tone and said "you're kidding me, right?  This is a US government issued ID card.  What do you need my driver's liscence for?".  I produced my liscence and the Sgt turned to me and asked me for a Canadian military ID card and asked if I was with 403 Squadron on base.  I told him that I was a US Marine and that I did not need a Canadian military ID card.  I argued further and explained how I had entered the base the day before while in civilian clothes and did not get this type of hassel.  I also explained how the commissionaires at the gate said I didn't need a pass since I was in uniform.  He said that he would let me in this time but that I needed a Canadian military ID card the next time.

As I drove on the base, I encountered another check point.  I showed the cpl my military ID card and then a youn officer came running to my vehicle with a great big smile. 

"You're a Marine", he said as if I was some sort of celebrity. 

"Yes," I replied.

"I'm supposed to search your vehicle but for all intensive purposes, we'll just say that we did," he said to me still smiling.

"So, I suppose that box with wires sticking out of it that is clearly written bomb on it is ok to have in the back of my car," I replied to him sarcastically, smilling back at him.  He just laughed and sent me on my merry little foreign way.

I was appauled at the entire situation.  Whenever I teach my vehicle search class, I use this example of what not do to when standing post at the gate.

Complacency seems to be the order of the day.  I am convinced that Canadians really believe in their heart of hearts that the terrorists like them and won't attack their beloved Canada.  The CF is not ready to deal with a hightened level of security for their installations.  In the US, this is something we practice everyday on the job.

I blame the CF for the young officer's "all intensive purposes" statement due to his training being "notional" in nature.  This notional training, due to lack of resources, is dangerous.  We will fight a notional enemy with notional bullets in this notional training environement etc...

This is serious food for thought.....

PJ D-Dog

 

[Dale Turner]

It's fair for you to say that Canadian security procedures are lacking when compared to US borders and bases. In some ways I agree. And due to recent world events that I think that Canadians in general have terrorism on their minds more now than in the past. But I feel that if terrorists attacked Canada they would be cutting off their only access to the US. The borders would be slammed shut by both governments. And the worlds longest undefended border would be no more. I'm not saying Canada is a haven for terrorists but it would definately be harder for them to cross back and forth if they attacked Canada.

 

[Black Watch]

I remember visiting the Mobile force command (MFC) at CFB St-Hubert during the Oka crisis. Lots of safety to go in there, and we had to be searched just in order to enter domestic site. Not to mention alle the cheks we had to go through to get in ops site(ST-Hubert is a former RCAF station w/o fences around the domestic site and on that site was MFCHQ and the ops and domestics siteswere separated by a civilian road)

BTW, the public know the adress of the most secret intelligence unit of Canada...

 

[P-Free]

Every nation always thinks it can't happen to them until it actually does happen. America never expected September 11th and I doubt Londoners expected July 7th or 21st. It will be the same in Canada, it will be a loud wakeup call and jaws will drop. But there is not much you can do before, during or after an attack to prevent it or to lessen the damage. If a bomber is bent on blowing himself up there is nothing you can do to change his mind and after it happens the damage is already done. All we can do is take the fight to them, so that the hell and the bombings are happening in their backyard and not in ours.