AOR Replacement & the Joint Support Ship (Merged Threads)

[Stoker]

Notice the design differences between aft and forward RAS bridge? Is it because one of them came from Protecteur Ships and the other is brand new?

No, all the RAS gear is new.

 

[Cloud Cover]

I thought the JSS concept was ditched anyway and the decision was made to go with a ship limited to refueling and re-supply hence the Berlin class modified to the Queenston standards and not some new type of ship with too many expectations. 

I think somebody mentioned way back in this thread that if the government wants the RCN to perform LPD work, then build or buy an LPD. Same thing with an LHD, or a ro-ro ship or whatever other "joint" function is deemed necessary.  We are a rich country, we can afford these things if they were really and truly needed, but they aren't ..... right now, the navy has informed the government through Leadmark 20250 that it needs a new mobile gas station and ships with more firepower. 

 

[Colin Parkinson]

For our current tasks that is. The government could change what Canada will do at anytime.

 

[Cloud Cover]

yes of course, but requirements have to "bake in" at some point or the frigging things will never be built  .... if the requirement changes, then another type of ship will be needed. 

 

[Swampbuggy]

yes of course, but requirements have to "bake in" at some point or the frigging things will never be built  .... if the requirement changes, then another type of ship will be needed.

I realize this is an AOR thread, but since we’re on the topic of other types of ships, I can’t help but wonder when the discussion will start on what eventually replaces the MCDVS. I understand that they have been continually and greatly updated over the past few years, but if I’m not mistaken, I was under the impression that they will be divested by the early 2030’s. To circle back to the AOR’s, it’s taken well over a decade to be where we are now, which is still likely 5 years away from seeing one in the water. Given the glacial pace of procurement here, shouldn’t there be some impetus to get the ball rolling soon? Or will it be that the RCN has to try and juggle two 4 CSC task groups, a summer’s worth of Arctic patrolling AND east coast/west coast  duties with 5-6 AOPS, 4 SSK, and 15 CSC, once the KINGSTON’s have retired? Seems likely to be stretched pretty thin.

 

[Stoker]

I thought the JSS concept was ditched anyway and the decision was made to go with a ship limited to refueling and re-supply hence the Berlin class modified to the Queenston standards and not some new type of ship with too many expectations. 

I think somebody mentioned way back in this thread that if the government wants the RCN to perform LPD work, then build or buy an LPD. Same thing with an LHD, or a ro-ro ship or whatever other "joint" function is deemed necessary.  We are a rich country, we can afford these things if they were really and truly needed, but they aren't ..... right now, the navy has informed the government through Leadmark 20250 that it needs a new mobile gas station and ships with more firepower.

Yes they stopped calling it the JSS sometime ago. Its now called the PROTECTEUR Class.

 

[Stoker]

I realize this is an AOR thread, but since we’re on the topic of other types of ships, I can’t help but wonder when the discussion will start on what eventually replaces the MCDVS. I understand that they have been continually and greatly updated over the past few years, but if I’m not mistaken, I was under the impression that they will be divested by the early 2030’s. To circle back to the AOR’s, it’s taken well over a decade to be where we are now, which is still likely 5 years away from seeing one in the water. Given the glacial pace of procurement here, shouldn’t there be some impetus to get the ball rolling soon? Or will it be that the RCN has to try and juggle two 4 CSC task groups, a summer’s worth of Arctic patrolling AND east coast/west coast  duties with 5-6 AOPS, 4 SSK, and 15 CSC, once the KINGSTON’s have retired? Seems likely to be stretched pretty thin.

Yes 2030's is what I have heard, no word on it they will be replaced with a dedicated mine warfare ship or not.

 

[jollyjacktar]

Need to check my glasses.  For a second there, l thought you typed "a dedicated mime warfare ship".

I suppose it would be rather funny looking.

 

[Swampbuggy]

Chief, is it possible that they can last longer if they reduce the tasks that are currently assigned to the class? For example, if they’re now transitioning back to primarily mine warfare, will that lessen the wear and tear and allow them (or at least some of them) to continue longer?

 

[Stoker]

Chief, is it possible that they can last longer if they reduce the tasks that are currently assigned to the class? For example, if they’re now transitioning back to primarily mine warfare, will that lessen the wear and tear and allow them (or at least some of them) to continue longer?

The ships are in great shape and the only real problems is obsolescence issues on certain components and that is being dealt with. The payload change don't really cause wear and tear per se.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Need to check my glasses.  For a second there, l thought you typed "a dedicated mime warfare ship".

That would have to be a French design.  ;D

 

[Swampbuggy]

That’s good to hear. If memory serves, some other Mine warfare vessels (Tripartite, for ex) are even older than the KINGSTON’s. That being said, though, they probably haven’t been pulling the same weight as the MCDVS. Just patrolling in the North Atlantic is likely to be harder on a ship than what some European vessels have been tasked with.

 

[Swampbuggy]

Need to check my glasses.  For a second there, l thought you typed "a dedicated mime warfare ship".

I suppose it would be rather funny looking.

Dangerous duty on one of those. More than one has been stuck in a patrol box that no one else can see...

 

[Loachman]

I remember a few years ago people jumping all over me about the Bell CH-146 Griffon and not being able to deploy it to Afghanistan. The so called experts claimed no way no how could that helicopter be used in the conditions it would be subjected to
It was used and it did a decent job. Not ideal but it was used.

It could not have functioned in the transport role.

That was why we acquired the second-hand US Army CH47Ds.

As an escort machine, it was adequate.

It cannot, however, perform that task year-round in cooler/wetter climes.

 

[alexanderpeterson]

Sharing a link from http://torontosun.com/opinion/columnists/guest-column-liberals-must-change-course-on-sinking-approach-to-shipbuilding

The journalist thinks, as I am, that we shall acquire Obelix. I would add MRNSV (pic in next reply). Focus our CAD in Coast Guard to protect against future threats (China, Russia and USA itself) building a truly Polar Class 1 or two. Hold the JSS for a better opportunity to build an LHD or LPD.

 

[alexanderpeterson]

Cool ship. 6 functions in one ship...What do you think?

 

[jollyjacktar]

Sharing a link from http://torontosun.com/opinion/columnists/guest-column-liberals-must-change-course-on-sinking-approach-to-shipbuilding

The journalist thinks, as I am, that we shall acquire Obelix. I would add MRNSV (pic in next reply). Focus our CAD in Coast Guard to protect against future threats (China, Russia and USA itself) building a truly Polar Class 1 or two. Hold the JSS for a better opportunity to build an LHD or LPD.

He's not a journalist but a Conservative politician.  He also shouldn't crow so loudly as his team were less than stellar too in taking care of things.

 

[alexanderpeterson]

... his team were less than stellar too in taking care of things.

You are right, both sides of the aisle has mismanaged purchasing process, what leads me to think that either is an endemic or a systemic issue. What is the difference between the effective acquisition (Orca, Kingston, Frigates, etc) and now?

 

[jollyjacktar]

No difference, really.  They've all been messed up to one degree or the other (CPF and MCDV) can't speak to the ORCA as they're on the wrong coast for me to have first hand knowledge.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

From what I gathered, the Orcas were based on a well proven patrol boat design, but with a large training/bunking area added, which have severely limited their stability and their ability to steam the coast in less protected waters. They are certainly a step up from the YFP/YAGs & Gate boats for training, but very limited in the ability to conduct any other function.