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Afghanistan: Why we should be there (or not), how to conduct the mission (or not) & when to leave

Guess who else is staying firm on Afstan?/Dead Talibs and brazen media
http://unambig.com/guess-who-else-is-staying-firm-on-afstan/

r

Mark
Ottawa
 
Paul at Celestial Junk:

Anatomy of Cowardice (our government)
http://cjunk.blogspot.com/2010/08/anatomy-of-cowardice.html

Terry Glavin:

Liberalism's Long Walk (Sen. Kenny amongst others)
http://propagandistmag.com/2010/08/03/liberalisms-long-walk

Mark
Ottawa
 
Brian Platt:

Helping Our Public Broadcaster
http://canada-afghanistan.blogspot.com/2010/08/helping-our-public-broadcaster.html

Sometimes I like to rewrite the opening paragraph in CBC stories. Here's how the current one exists:

    Taliban Issue New Code of Conduct...

Mark
Ottawa
 
Afstan: Our media and a senator
http://unambig.com/afstan-our-media-and-a-senator/

Two unpublished letters to the editor...

Mark
Ottawa
 
Afstan: Not unconquerable, no “graveyard of empires”
http://unambig.com/afstan-not-unconquerable-no-graveyard-of-empires/

Boy do I hate these myths which have become common currency in our media and public debate.  It appears almost no-one either knows any serious history in the first place or can even be bothered to do simple Google searches...

Mark
Ottawa
 
Canada's policy must be focused on doing right
The StarPhoenix August 6, 2010

http://www.thestarphoenix.com/opinion/Canada+policy+must+focused+doing+right/3365662/story.html?cid=megadrop_story

She is as unlikely a poster child for Canada's mission in Afghanistan as can be imagined, but 18-year-old Aisha's iconic image on the cover of Time magazine is a shocking reminder of what's at stake.
Aisha (she asked her family name not be used for their protection) was a 12-year-old child when she and her 10-year-old sister were handed over to a Taliban fighter to pay off a family blood debt. At puberty she was forced to marry her mostly absent husband. The sisters were housed with the livestock, used as slaves and beaten regularly by her in-laws. Aisha escaped to Kandahar, but her husband tracked her down last year, dragged her back to his tribal area where he cut off her nose and ears.
Bloodied and near death, she somehow managed to find her way back to Kandahar. This week, with the help of charities and the magazine, the now 18-year-old woman was put on a plane to the U.S., where she will undergo reconstructive surgery.
Meanwhile, Time has taken heat from those who oppose the war, or at least America's role in it, for using the otherwise strikingly beautiful Aisha's face as a sort of "war porn" in order to raise support for a conflict that has gone on for nearly a decade and cost thousands of lives. But Aisha -- and thousands more like her -- are the reason countries such as Canada and the U.S. can't turn their backs on Afghanistan.
It's worth noting -- and the Time article points it out -- that for tens of thousands of other Afghan women who were trapped in the same cultural and religious hell as Aisha, the assistance from the West has provided them with freedom, education and dignity.
It's also worth noting that this task is far from over.
In an op-ed piece in Monday's Toronto Star, Liberal foreign policy critic Bob Rae reminded Canadians of the scope of this task. NATO and Western nations enthusiastically signed up to do something about the Taliban. That these same democratic Western governments were able to ignore the darkest side of the Taliban -- the way it treated its women, children and cultural minorities -- until the 9/11 attack says much about the weak effort to support that commitment since then.
Canada, however, can claim to be among the few exceptions. In blood and treasure, this country has contributed disproportionately to make Afghanistan work. Aisha's now famous face is a chilling reminder of just how short even this effort has been to meet the need.
Mr. Rae makes two particularly noteworthy points. One is that the ignorance and hatred that can allow the mutilation of a child bride and foster the continuous war against modernity in this part of the world "pose a risk not only to people in a region but to us."
And unlike Cold War conflicts such as Vietnam, where the American loss didn't result in ultimate failure, this time "the West can't afford to lose," Rae says.
He goes on to insist that, with the changing role of Canada in Afghanistan with the imminent departure of its main fighting force, Canadians and parliamentarians must "re-engage on this issue in the fall."
This discussion is long overdue, but was put to rest during the 2008 election campaign when Prime Minister Stephen Harper made it absolutely clear Afghanistan wasn't to be talked about and the 2011 deadline for departure was non-negotiable.
Canada's seemingly never-ending cycle of minority governments makes serious debate over controversial issues too dangerous for political parties. Yet one would think that, given the close similarity of the Liberal and Conservative parties when it comes to major foreign policies, such as this conflict, the two most-likely governing parties could set aside bitter animosities long enough to do what's right for the country.
This point was made by University of Ottawa academics Philippe Lagassé and Justin Massie in an opinion piece published in the Globe and Mail Wednesday. Both parties, they suggest, recognize that Canada has a significant international role to play and must support a robust military to do so. Of all of this, Aisha knows and cares little. She just wants her nose restored.
But her sister is still a slave in Taliban territory. And in a bitter irony, while Aisha is in California undergoing reconstructive surgery, it is what Canada does next that will determine whether we can look ourselves in the face following 2011
 
Here's another:

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/reuters/100809/world/international_us_afghanistan_execution

Interesting to see that the Taliban is disavowing any knowledge of this.
 
Letter of mine in Toronto Star today:

Don’t tar Afghan mission with Yankee brush
http://www.thestar.com/opinion/letters/article/845340--don-t-tar-afghan-mission-with-yankee-brush

Re: CSIS reviewing role in Afghan detainee interrogations, Aug. 2
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/afghanmission/article/843055--csis-reviewing-role-in-afghan-detainee-interrogations

This Canadian Press story seems to be trying to tar the Canadian Forces’ missions in Afghanistan with a Yankee brush.

It states that “CSIS questioned Afghan detainees from 2002 through late 2007 . . . The timeline roughly coincides with Canada’s direct contribution to Operation Enduring Freedom (OEF), the U.S.-led war on terror.”

That is inaccurate. There have actually been three main CF missions in Afghanistan. In the first half of 2002 there was a combat mission at Kandahar that was indeed under Operation Enduring Freedom.

Then, from the summer of 2003 to late 2005, there was an essentially peacekeeping mission at Kabul. That operation was under NATO’s International Security Assistance Force (ISAF), a force authorized by the UN Security Council, and was quite distinct from OEF.

Finally, in early 2006, a new combat mission — still going on — was undertaken at Kandahar. It was initially under OEF but, at the end of July 2006, came under ISAF command and has so remained ever since.

So from 2002 until 2007 our forces were under the U.S. operation for only about one year out of some three and a half years.

Oddly ill-informed — or, perhaps, an attempt to shape readers’ reactions to Canadian military efforts in Afghanistan?

Mark Collins, Ottawa

Update: The conclusion of a related post:
http://unambig.com/don%E2%80%99t-tar-afghan-mission-with-yankee-brush/

...
Predate: More misinformation (if not disinformation) from our major media:

Afstan: Not unconquerable, no “graveyard of empires”
http://unambig.com/afstan-not-unconquerable-no-graveyard-of-empires/

The mythical nine-year Afghan war–and the mythical US invasion
http://unambig.com/the-mythical-nine-year-afghan-war/

No wonder intelligent discussion of the matter is so hard in this country.

Mark
Ottawa
 
I'm going to say "not likely", but if a news editor wants to think so....
Defence Minister Peter MacKay strongly suggested today that the Harper government is open to extending the Canadian military mission in Afghanistan beyond July, 2011, if agreement can be reached with the opposition.

"I know that Ignatieff and Rae have made comments recently about training, and extending the mission," MacKay said while on a tour of CFB Meaford. "That's all very interesting."

The minister repeatedly stressed, however, that the current Parliamentary motion governing the mission in Afghanistan requires that it end in July of next year, with all forces withdrawn by December of 2011.

"There's not a lot of flex as to what we can do, within the context of the parliamentary motion…. We'll respect the letter of the motion."

The motion, passed by the House of Commons in March of 2008, calls for a complete pullout by December of 2011 and leaves no room for further extensions.

(....)

Yesterday, MacKay acknowledged that Canada is under pressure to extend. "There's no question there's a strong desire to have Canadians continue," he said. "It's something we've done extremely well. It's appreciated and noticed by our allies."

In terms of any extension, he said, "we're examining all the options." ....
Including better protection for interpreters helping out Canadians?
http://forums.milnet.ca/forums/threads/89135/post-962131.html#msg962131
I bet my loonie on government not changing its mind.
 
Devil's advocate here, but what if a member of HM's Loyal Opposition introduced a motion that called for the CF to continue operations in a training (or whatever) roll beyond the current end date, and what if that motion passed?

My gut feeling is that the executive branch would not be forced into keeping the forces there; however, what effect would it have on the executive?


 
Technoviking said:
Devil's advocate here, but what if a member of HM's Loyal Opposition introduced a motion that called for the CF to continue operations in a training (or whatever) roll beyond the current end date, and what if that motion passed?

My gut feeling is that the executive branch would not be forced into keeping the forces there; however, what effect would it have on the executive?

IF it was introduced (notwithstanding any party's nervousness about introducing such a proposition) and IF it passed (NDP'll say no, Bloc will most likely say no, Liberals may say yea, and the Conservatives would depend on what the leader wants), given recent statements about following the will of Parliament as expressed through the March 2008 motion, the executive would be pretty hard pressed to not act in line with the motion without seeming to be selective of its read of the will of Parliament.
 
Terry Glavin:

"Lord Swinton knows perfectly well what he is doing."
http://transmontanus.blogspot.com/2010/08/lord-swinton-knows-perfectly-well-what.html

Julian Assange Is A War Criminal...

Paul at Celestial Junk:
http://cjunk.blogspot.com/2010/08/why-afghan-wikileak-is-treason.html

Why the Afghan Wikileak is Treason

...
As if our limp-dish-rag PMO refusing to stand up for our Afghan allies and our troops isn't insulting enough by its silence, we now have to contend with the fact that our PMO can't even manage a proper retreat...

UA:

Afstan: Delhi still playing the Great Game/US and Canadian games
http://unambig.com/afstan-delhi-still-playing-the-great-gameus-and-canadian-games/

Mark
Ottawa

 
Strangely enough, the link I provided to the McKay statement story here ....
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/49908/post-962236.html#msg962236
.... no longer seems to work.

Here's a link to the story at one of the sister papers in the same chain, with a PDF attached just in case the sister paper has trouble, too.

Meanwhile, this is the spin the NDP is giving this story - via e-mail mail out:
For two years, Stephen Harper has repeatedly promised Canadians that the combat mission in Afghanistan would end in 2011.

Canadians were counting on it. They thought they could take Stephen Harper at his word. They were wrong.

Today we learned that Stephen Harper wants a backroom deal with Ignatieff’s Liberals to keep Canadian soldiers in the military mission past 2011.

The majority of Canadians have spoken. Parliament has spoken. We want the combat mission to end in 2011. Now I want you to help me get the word out about this backroom deal.

Click here to spread the word on Facebook.

Stephen Harper and Michael Ignatieff – do the right thing. Keep your promise to Canadians on Afghanistan.

Brad Lavigne,
National Director
Canada’s New Democrats
And I though the reporter assumed quite a bit from the word "interesting"....
 
So basically Brad is broadcasting to the world that he doesn't know the difference between the combat mission and the mentoring/teaching work that we've been doing?  Once again the NDP clearly show themselves to be low rent and uninformed. 
 
After getting a good night's sleep, I see a sliver (like, this >|< thin) of hope in MacKay's latest comments here:
"There's not a lot of flex as to what we can do, within the context of the parliamentary motion ... We'll respect the letter of the motion."
Since the letter of the motion says "leave Kandahar", not "leave Afghanistan", some might see hope there for a change of heart.  Me, I'll believe it when I see the change of heart.
 
milnews.ca said:
After getting a good night's sleep, I see a sliver (like, this >|< thin) of hope in MacKay's latest comments here:Since the letter of the motion says "leave Kandahar", not "leave Afghanistan", some might see hope there for a change of heart.  Me, I'll believe it when I see the change of heart.

One of the problems is that the NDP, media and the public love peacekeeping...the low rent kind where you don't have to buy tanks, airplanes, ships etc.

 
.... the Taliban has editorialized even more - lead sentence from a statement on their English page (screen capture of full statement here at non-terrorist page):
With the Dutch troops’ pullout, Canada has reopened talks of quick Afghanistan withdrawal ahead of the schedule as its nation strongly opposes the Afghan war and prefers a road to peace ....
Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight.....
 
All this Afghan war fatigue is really getting tiresome
The Chronicle-Herald
13 Aug 2010

Afghanistan is stuck in a state of perpetual war. So are we in the West. The only difference is that the Afghans know it and we don't.

At this point, I'm not even sure a bunker-busting bomb could penetrate our obtuseness. Our condition is not blatantly obvious to us because this open-ended conflict - the war on terror - is happening mostly overseas as opposed to over here.

But distance and denial do not change the nature of the beast.

There is a dreamlike quality to opinion polls that register deepening disapproval of the Afghan war on both sides of the border. The same goes of op-eds by prominent people calling for a pullout, and the propaganda coup by the WikiLeaks Secrets Slayer Extraordinaire who makes no secret of the fact he wants to hasten the end of the war.

Only in a fantasy world can you call off such a conflict unilaterally. In the real world, the other side will keep on fighting, whether or not we withdraw and whether or not we end up negotiating some bogus peace with the Taliban.

In any case, Afghanistan is hardly the final frontier. Even if NATO succeeded in tamping down the Taliban with Pakistani help, it would not be over. This is a global and a generational struggle. Extremists will gravitate to new fronts in extreme environments like Somalia or Yemen and try to use them as launching pads.

It's way too early for home-front war fatigue. And frankly, it's a tiresome affectation. Afghanistan is now the longest war in U.S. history, people solemnly say, as if that makes it worse somehow. Well, it doesn't. This war has longevity, but nowhere near the intensity of Vietnam.

Afghans experience far more war fatigue than we do and are less self-absorbed about it. For them, war is a given, and they don't have much choice in the matter. Neither do we, really, if we value our way of life.

The most sensible thing I've read about Afghanistan lately pertained to this very illusion of choice. Ironically, the point was made by a journalist who is keeping his distance from the debate.

Sebastian Junger wrote a book called War, the product of 15 months of shadowing U.S. combat troops at the tip of the spear. While it dissects soldiers' thoughts, it does not pretend to dissect the conflict.

Nonetheless, Mr. Junger rather succinctly read the entrails in an interview with The Chronicle Herald's Jeffrey Simpson.

"So if NATO pulls out, presumably the Taliban and al-Qaida will move back in to where they were in the 1990s and you risk re-establishing the circumstances that led to 9-11," he said.

"The real question is: Periodic 9-11 attacks, do they cost less than being at war? I have no idea. But that's the choice, essentially.

"It's not like, 'Should we be at war or should we be at peace?' Unfortunately, that's not the choice."

Exactly.

Now, I do agree that Canada should pull up stakes on schedule late next year. Our army is worn out and needs to take a breather.

But all this talk of a U.S. exit strategy is just pablum for a public that wants to be babied. There is only the way forward, however unclear that may be.

How folks feel about the war dragging on is less important than how committed they are to seeing it through. Do you think the Brits were happy it took 30 years for the Irish inferno to cool off?

Speaking of decades-long grinds, don't be surprised if this ends up taking on aspects of the Cold War. If the Americans find it unsustainable or unpalatable to deploy their own troops into hot zones, they will get proxies to do their dirty work and rekindle civil wars if they have to - the object being putting your bad guys in charge as opposed to the other guy's bad guys.

Anti-Taliban tribes are already being armed in Afghanistan. The truth is they'd probably be a more effective fighting force - as long as they don't switch sides - than the Afghan national army to whom no one has any loyalty.

As Mr. Junger notes, the current conflict in Afghanistan is tame compared to what preceded it and to what might follow. A million civilians died under the Soviets. Another 400,000 were killed in the ensuing civil war that brought the Taliban to power. He says the civilian death toll during the decade of NATO intervention is 25 times lower than that.

A NATO pullout would unquestionably plunge the country back into a free-for-all. Worse yet, we'd be doing nobody a favour - not ourselves, not the Afghans.
 
QMI columnist with too little, too late, giving some background to an earlier story he wrote, shared in accordance with the Fair Dealing provisions (§29) of the Copyright  Act:
Canada won’t cut and run, Prime Minister Stephen Harper boldly declared in 2006 when his government was new to power and brimming with enthusiasm for the Afghan mission.

Four years later the Harper government is preparing to do just that. The official line is that, come what may, every last Canadian soldier, other than those assigned to protecting embassies, will be out of Afghanistan by December 2011.

Or will they?

This week, while on a visit to Canadian Forces Base Meaford, near Owen Sound, Ont., Defence Minister Peter MacKay appeared to significantly soften the government’s stand against extending the military mission in a new form.

Asked whether Ottawa would be open to keeping some soldiers in Afghanistan as trainers, MacKay said: “I know that (Michael) Ignatieff and (Bob) Rae have made comments recently about training, and extending the mission. That’s all very interesting.”

He added, in answer to my question about an “inside the wire” military training mission in Kabul: “All options are being considered.”

In the past, senior government ministers have always fielded such queries with a flat “no.”

Soon after MacKay’s remarks were published, his handlers moved to erase and minimize.

MacKay asserted Wednesday that he was referring only to a non-military mission to train police, jail guards and the like. Well, that’s not what he said. But, whatever.

Anyone who has followed this man’s career knows he is prone to periodic excesses of zeal, followed by hurried denials, sometimes accompanied by a knuckle-rapping from the PMO. So perhaps there’s no internal talk of a policy change. Or perhaps there’s discord about which course to take – MacKay and the defence brass privately favouring a new mission, Harper against.

The interesting question though, is why.

The Liberals have made it clear, most recently Wednesday, that they’re open to continuing the military mission in a non-combat capacity.

Likely that would involve Canadian soldiers, fewer than 200, being attached to a U.S. unit at Camp Julien, in Kabul, where Canadians have long had a role in training Afghan National Army officers.

The Americans and NATO are pressuring Ottawa to do something, anything, other than a full pullout.

With Liberal support the Conservatives could easily oblige. The parliamentary motion calling for a pullout next year, MacKay official Jay Paxton pointedly told me the other day, refers specifically to Kandahar – not to Afghanistan.

So why the obdurate resistance to any discussion of a continuing mission?

In this government, it comes down to Harper.

It could be political calculation on his part. Or it could be that he has concluded that the Afghan project is beyond saving. Politically, Afghanistan is a loser. Canadians are tired of the mission. Harper effectively took the debate off the table before the last election by announcing a firm pullout.

That was cynical but politically smart. It worked for him.

Afghan President Hamid Karzai is widely known to be corrupt and incompetent.

Since even the Americans have said they will begin drawing down their forces next year, it’s difficult to see how this ends well. What prevents the Taliban from taking over again once the Americans leave?

Set against this is the need for Canada to stand by our allies, as long as they are collectively in this fight.

The right thing? A training mission would help our allies, who are in a tight spot, and is a fair compromise.

We should stay and see that through, helping to finish what we helped to start.

michael.dentandt@sunmedia.ca
 
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