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AESOp ( MOC 081)

  • Thread starter Thread starter aesop081
  • Start date Start date
SupersonicMax said:
If you want to fly, have you thought about pilot?
I've certainly thought about it. I'd love to fly. I've always wanted to fly. I'm just not sold on having to go to university for 4 years to acquire a degree. That would put me at 41 years old after my degree. Not sure that's take I want to take. Although I do hear Kingston is quite beautiful.
 
TB said:
I thought LDA counted towards Fly pay?

It is a good time to join the trade, lots of staffing issue due to forecast/un-forecast releases, members commissioning, etc. Right now at the school our annual outpout is suppose to be 20, however we have difficulty achieving that target. The OT process can be quiet long, but don't get discourage and keep track of everything. In the end if you truly want to become an AES Op it will pay off. I've been AES Op for 7 years and I truly enjoy this job.
Thanks TB. I'm quite excited to begin this process. I'll be initiating today. I don't think I'll be getting discouraged anytime soon. Cheers partner.
 
thomasm77 said:
I wonder if my years deployable carry over from LDA to Aircrew allowance? I just recently jumped from the $311/month up tp $441/month for having served 5 yrs at a deployable regiment. Hmmmm, interesting thought, though no a deciding factor at all.

Your LDA points will/should? count towards the AIRCRA; we have former LDA-types and their points counted to AIRCRA.  Deployed time (ie FSP points, etc) will count like normal if you are deployed on that type of mission eg OP IMPACT. 

Loachman, I know a few guys who had their LDA points count towards their AIRCRA level.  ???

Here is the link to the CBI  http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-policies-standards-benefits/ch-205-officer-ncm-allowance-rates.page

Now I just have to read it cross-eyed a few times to understand it.  >:D

Now, to type up that damn memo...

That's a start along with the PSO/CFAT score and the aircrew medical.  Unless you are in some admin/discipline trouble, you're CofC doesn't have the authority to 'stop/block' your OT application; the CO has a section for comment/recommendation.  But, as an example, your WO can't say "I am not letting you apply, maybe next year".
 
Eye In The Sky said:
Your LDA points will count towards the AIRCRA and, I believe, Sea Pay (never received it myself and would want to look at the CBI before saying 'yes' to Sea Duty).  Deployed time (ie FSP points, etc) will count like normal if you are deployed on that type of mission eg OP IMPACT. 

That's a start along with the PSO/CFAT score and the aircrew medical.  Unless you are in some admin/discipline trouble, you're CofC doesn't have the authority to 'stop/block' your OT application; the CO has a section for comment/recommendation.  But, as an example, your WO can't say "I am not letting you apply, maybe next year".
The memo is simply to inform them of my intent to OT. Already done. I'm in the process of getting my medicals and  BPSO booked.

That's neat about the LDA. I guess deployable time is deployable time. I like it.
 
205.015(3) (Points – when in receipt of Aircrew, Land Duty, Sea Duty or Submarine Allowance) A member in receipt of only one of the following allowances:
a.CBI 205.32 (Aircrew Allowance);
b.CBI 205.33 (Land Duty Allowance);
c.CBI 205.35 (Sea Duty Allowance); or
d.CBI 205.37 (Submarine Allowance);

is entitled to the monthly rate corresponding to the number of points the member accumulated in one or more core allowances, together with the number of points the member would have accumulated had CBI 205.33 (Land Duty Allowance) been in effect prior to 1 April 2007, to a maximum of one point per month.

I think this is the relevant part of the CBI;  I wish the definition of Accumulated eligible service had a little more clarity to it.  :stars:
 
Eye In The Sky said:
205.015(3) (Points – when in receipt of Aircrew, Land Duty, Sea Duty or Submarine Allowance) A member in receipt of only one of the following allowances:
a.CBI 205.32 (Aircrew Allowance);
b.CBI 205.33 (Land Duty Allowance);
c.CBI 205.35 (Sea Duty Allowance); or
d.CBI 205.37 (Submarine Allowance);

is entitled to the monthly rate corresponding to the number of points the member accumulated in one or more core allowances, together with the number of points the member would have accumulated had CBI 205.33 (Land Duty Allowance) been in effect prior to 1 April 2007, to a maximum of one point per month.

I think this is the relevant part of the CBI;  I wish the definition of Accumulated eligible service had a little more clarity to it.  :stars:
Perfect. Makes sense to me. Although frankly it won't be a game changer what-so-ever.
 
It's all based on points now, my sea time counted towards my aircrew allowance.  Which brings me to my next bitch. 

Why the separation between LDA, SDA, AIRCRA?

We all start the same, but LDA and SDA both climb at a higher rate.
 
Eye In The Sky said:
205.015(3) (Points – when in receipt of Aircrew, Land Duty, Sea Duty or Submarine Allowance) A member in receipt of only one of the following allowances:
a.CBI 205.32 (Aircrew Allowance);
b.CBI 205.33 (Land Duty Allowance);
c.CBI 205.35 (Sea Duty Allowance); or
d.CBI 205.37 (Submarine Allowance);

is entitled to the monthly rate corresponding to the number of points the member accumulated in one or more core allowances, together with the number of points the member would have accumulated had CBI 205.33 (Land Duty Allowance) been in effect prior to 1 April 2007, to a maximum of one point per month.

I think this is the relevant part of the CBI;  I wish the definition of Accumulated eligible service had a little more clarity to it.  :stars:

Interesting. Something actually changed in our favour.
 
Sorry I haven't been around since my last reply Eye. Pretty much because nothing has changed.

@thomasm77, you sound like I did in October 2013 when I started this. Also sounds like our situations are very similar. Wife, kids, growing up, wanting something more. I believe you will have an easier time going from RegF. I may be reserve, but I've been full time class B since 2008.

I am extremely frustrated with the entire process. I am going through my chain to try and get some answers. It's up to our MWO, and next step is our branch head (we have a weird command structure here). Reading the CF MIL PERS INSTR 03/08 - CF Component Transfer Career Programs, I've found some things to be completely opposite of this publication;

"The guiding philosophies of CT are that:

.......redundant processing shall be eliminated;"  - yeah right.

Later,

"2.5 Advantages of CT
The specific advantages of a CT are that it
:

-Continues service
-is a faster administrative process than re-enrolment;  :facepalm:
-recognizes past work experience and training....

...2.6 Priority For CT
CF members wishing to CT will be given priority over civilians having no former service requesting enrolment. This priority does not restrict the conduct of selection boards for applied skills assessment that may result in advantageous merit listing of civilian applicants..."

I get what the last point (2.6) is saying, but I'm pretty sure (not 100% but its a safe estimate) that the number of DE candidates selected, I am surely higher on the merit listing than at least one of them. I would've thought my total of 10yrs full time seervice might mean something. We'll see I guess.


Anyhow, my family can't keep sitting around waiting. My wife needs to go back to school to get her credentials from the UK recognized (don't even get me started on that one). We don't want her to start in case I get the CT, because there'd be no point if we had to move. Plus, if we moved anywhere west of Ontario her credentials can be challenged just by writing the provincial exams. So I've started initiating a plan B. Trade school maybe.....not sure yet......but my contract here is up soon, and I need to move on. Like it's been said, it's one thing to be passed over because someone is more qualified.....it's a whole other thing to just be ignored, missed, overlooked because people don't want to answer your emails/calls etc.  ???
 
Reading that policy, makes me think it was designed for simple CTs. When you throw an OT on board, it gets way more complex as basically you're just a recruit school bypass.
 
It should still put the applicant ahead of DE based on military experience. I'm not talking a Cpl who has been doing reserves for 5 years and has the equivelant of 1yr of full time service (thought that should still count for a little something). I am pointing to my specific case (or anyone else) who has years of full time experience. Some RegF some ResF but all full time equalling 10yrs in.
 
PuckChaser said:
Reading that policy, makes me think it was designed for simple CTs. When you throw an OT on board, it gets way more complex as basically you're just a recruit school bypass.

Yup, its be nice if it would be clarified or if they could have a yearly competition or to treat us like off the street candiates even with X spots allocated for the reserves(similar to right now but with a merit board). I've been to told either release, OT within the reserves  (which would take years to become qualified and likely my ct-ot would go through by then) or pick a different trade(s).

When they asked for my gr.10 transcripts  . I asked "do you want my university transcripts as well?" Response "Nope all we need is your grade 10... :facepalm:"

outwit outlast outplay

 
runormal said:
Yup, its be nice if it would be clarified or if they could have a yearly competition or to treat us like off the street candiates even with X spots allocated for the reserves. I've been to told either release, OT within the reserves  (which would take years to become qualified and likely my ct-ot would go through by then) or pick a different trade(s).

When they asked for my gr.10 transcripts  . I asked "do you want my university transcripts as well?" Response "Nope all we need is your grade 10... :facepalm:"

outwit outlast outplay

Good advice....release, even though their Pub says CT's are supposed to continue service and take less time than release/re-enroll.
You'd think Uni transcripts would give you some more points on the merit boards. If I/we wanted a different trade, we'd have asked to go that trade. If there was an AESOP reserve unit where I live, sure, that MIGHT be an option......but alas, I'd have to move either way across the country for that......ARE there ResF AESOPs out there?

Good Times.
 
PuckChaser said:
Reading that policy, makes me think it was designed for simple CTs. When you throw an OT on board, it gets way more complex as basically you're just a recruit school bypass.

It is interesting,

I just read the policy and found this.

http://web.archive.org/web/20120131115423/http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/pd/pi-ip/doc/03-08-eng.pdf

4.9 Component
Transfer
Career
Programs
• CT - Career Action – Occupation Transfer. PRes members, both Officers and NCMs, who wish to change occupations in conjunction with their CT applications may apply under the CT – OT program managed by DMCA. They must meet the eligibility requirements outlined in Para 4.2 for each target occupation. PRes mbrs completing a CT – OT shall be transferred into the Reg F and be allocated an external SIP position under DEO or NCM (refer to Table 2)

Similarly for CTs -> CTs (T)

4.8 Component Transfer And Other Career Actions
While a CT is the administrative action transferring a member from one component of the CF to another, it may be preceded by a request for additional career action.

• CT - Same MOSID. Where mbrs, both NCM and officer, are applying for a CT without any additional career action being required because they are choosing to remain in the same occupation and they meet the requirements (e.g., acceptable degree for officers) of their current MOSID. PRes members who choose to remain in the same occupation when they CT into the Reg F may or may not have reached the Operational Functional Point (OFP). PLARs will determine the level of skill and experience of members applying for CT. Res F mbrs will be transferred into the Reg F and be allocated an external SIP position under DEO or NCM (refer to Table 2); and


Eligibility Requirements

4.2 Eligibility
Requirements
• Eligible. To apply for CT, all Res F members must, in addition to the eligibility requirements at Para 3.1:
• meet, if applicable, the CT – Career Program requirements;
• and be a Canadian citizen unless approved by the CDS with request to be staffed by DMCA.
• Officers. In addition, officers must also:
• possess an acceptable degree IAW DMP POL’s MOSID Entry Standards for the target occupation(s); or
• if not in possession of a degree apply for a CT Career Program managed by DMCA that will provide the opportunity for successful completion of a university degree (refer to Section 4.9).
• CT from PRes to Reg F. The procedure used for CT from the PRes to the Reg F differs from that of the other Reserve sub-components. The difference recognizes that members of the PRes:
• have already been processed at a CFRC to the same standard as members of the Reg F component;
• in many instances share common training standards that can easily be transferred to the Reg F; and
• frequently deploy alongside members of the Reg F.
Note: Dictated by the requirements of the individual sub-components of the Res F enrolment processing standards vary. Members of the CIC, Supp Res and Canadian Rangers wh


3.1 Member
Eligibility
All currently serving officers and non-commissioned members of the CF are eligible to apply for CT if the member is eligible for release under one of the items of the table to QR&O 15 article 15.01 (Release of Officers and Noncommissioned Members), except for the following Release Items: 1, 2, 3a, in some conditions 3b, 5d, 5e, and 5f (refer to Table 4 for details). Overall, to be
eligible members must:
• meet the minimum DMP POL MOSID Entry Standards for the target occupation(s);
• meet the medical standards for the target occupation(s) IAW A-MD-154-000/FP-000;
• not be subject to a restriction on a right to release as a result of, QR&O articles 15.07, 15.071, and 15.075, or
• signed Statement of Understanding; and
• have a current Reliability Status (RS).

Table 2 is just explaining where the spots are allocated on the SIP.

3 CT – Occupation Transfer (OT) Officers: DEO
NCMS: DE

The 2.6 Ref says

2.6 Priority for CT
CF members wishing to CT will be given priority over civilians having no former service requesting enrolment. This priority does not restrict the conduct of selection boards for applied skills assessment that may result in advantageous merit listing of civilian applicants to:
• specialist occupations (e.g. Legal, Chaplains, etc);
• occupations for which national assessments are conducted (e.g.
Naval Officer Assessment Board (NOAB), Military Police); or
• Musicians (auditions).

However based on the trades listed this isn't your typical merit board this is a supplementary board after the fact.



So unless this reference has been superseded and rewritten, I'm under the impression that if the trade is open to candidates off the street, I should be given a spot just like that? That honestly doesn't seem right, because it seems too easy and too simple.


Edit: Reformatting

 
Yes, but your still subject to external sip, not the internal sip. Notice how we OT people every year, and it only takes about 8 months, while ct+OT takes years? You get priority over civilians with no prior service but that's about it.
 
PuckChaser said:
Yes, but your still subject to external sip, not the internal sip. Notice how we OT people every year, and it only takes about 8 months, while ct+OT takes years? You get priority over civilians with no prior service but that's about it.

I'm very confused. Since the vast majority of the spots for The CAF are filled with civilians with no prior experience, shouldn't this on average be an even quicker process than a OT within the Reg-F?Essentially I'm re applying to Reg-F but the CT process recognizes that I've already been processed, got the security clearance etc and they can easily view whether or not I'm a thudfuck or a productive member within the CAF. So by the policy, if they can hire Joe Smith off the street who just finished high-school or a reservist then they'll take the reservist and there is no reason for selection boards.

I've looked at the SIP in depth last year (Haven't for this FY) and for almost every trade it appeared that it that the bulk of the spots where allocated for DE/DEO and then they'd slowly filter down to things such as NCM SEP, ROTP, CEOTP and then then there would be a handful of spots for CT (T) and then even less few for CT (U) and then the Internal SIP had everything else for movements within the reg-f. Once the CT(U) spots for the year were filled, that was it. There'd be around 50 spots for off the street and only 1-4 for CT(U). By the policy shouldn't one of those 50 spots be given to CT(U)/CT(T)?

Based on my observations of viewing last years SIP, I'm under the impression that once the matrix for the SIP for FY built, it isn't changed that much and the only way CT(U) seems to get additional spots is if it they don't hire enough off the street or if they don't get enough CT(T)'s (Which happened last year for ACISS). I've read the comments and it would say spots "Allocated after request from DMCPG due to excess applicants" or "spots allocated because of X candidate with a XYZ".


Edit:
I should add I'm not actively pursuing a CT for AES-OP. I was (March 2014), but after I was given a v4 I'm now ineligible. I switched back to NAV COMM in OCT 2014 with an initial plan of doing 5-10 years as an NCM and then trying to commission for either LOGS/MARS.  I realize that this isn't exactly the best spot to discussing the CT Process however I'm at a cross road of what to do now.

Recently I rcvd this

"Please be advised that for this fiscal year (FY 15/16), there is no CT intake for untrained 00299-NAV COMM candidates."

I could either wait longer, or add additional Navy Ops trades, After reading discussions here and talking with friends, supervisors, colleagues and family I was suggested to just apply as an officer right away.

So i tried and instantly received this.

"I am the broker for LOG and MARS… and I have some bad news. Both of these trades are closed to CT-OT and will remain so for the foreseeable future, (i.e. next 5 years). You have a few options to get into the RegF as LOG or MARS:

1.      OT to either of these trades within the ResF and let us know that you have done so, (this will still take a few years); or

2.      Release from the primary reserves entirely, then 6 months later, apply to the RegF through a recruiting centre. I don’t normally recommend this option because you’ll have to wait 6 months to even begin the application process, and there are absolutely no guarantees that you’ll be offered a job.

The other option, of course, is to apply for different trades. All of the combat arms and HCA are open for officer trades."

So now not only have I lost my spot in the line for Nav Comm I'm at the exact same point where I started. I'm just trying to understand the reference/policy before I do my next move..
 
Probably way off topic now, but the CT people aren't the same as the OT people who aren't the same as the off the street people.

Keep in mind the CAF doesn't owe you a job when you're OTing. They make an effort to recognize your experience but you're still going to need the same QL3 course as a civilian off the street, you just are able to do it right away because you don't need BMQ. Needs of the service always come first, and if they are full for a certain trade, or the training system can't handle more people for the year, you don't get a job just like everyone else. Like it or not, PRes members don't have an opportunity to get in via internal SIP numbers. You'll need to follow the advice of your broker, it's pretty clear. You're not getting those trades unless you're already qualified.
 
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