Advice for women on BMQ and other courses [MERGED]

[LF(CMO)]

Women have no place in the Combat Arms for obvious reasons.  They are a distraction that you don't need to deal with, so why do it?
It has nothing to do with their Fitness level or their 'toughness'' because many are just as 'tough' as their male counter parts and a certain few can make the fitness requirements.  (My youngest daughter plays both Hockey and Rugby for a well known Canadian U, guaranteed she is both tough and fit.  Bench press 120lbs!).

If you can't understand how women introduced into an elite team enviroment can very easily upset the chemstry, I wonder where you have been all your life!

 

[48Highlander]

Women have no place in the Combat Arms for obvious reasons.   They are a distraction that you don't need to deal with, so why do it?
It has nothing to do with their Fitness level or their 'toughness'' because many are just as 'tough' as their male counter parts and a certain few can make the fitness requirements.   (My youngest daughter plays both Hockey and Rugby for a well known Canadian U, guaranteed she is both tough and fit.   Bench press 120lbs!).

If you can't understand how women introduced into an elite team enviroment can very easily upset the chemstry, I wonder where you have been all your life!

Yeah, but using "because you have boobies" as a reason to disqualify someone from a job is not acceptable in our society any more.

You might be interested to know that some 60-70 years ago people were saying the same thing about blacks.  Something along the lines of "If you can't understand how n***rs introduced into an elite team enviroment can very easily upset the chemstry, I wonder where you have been all your life!".  Guess what, we learned to get along.

 

[Infanteer]

Thanks 48, I was going to say that.

I'm really unsure of whether "they are a distraction" is a good enough reason.  I think it is an insult to the professionalism of both Men and Women who put on the Uniform.  I think I'm more then able to do a section attack without scoping out a section mates T&A every few seconds.

That being said, professionalism will never really trump carnal desires - we need to deal with the negative aspects of fraternization (both hetero and homo) instead of pretending it doesn't exist (I, for one, detest barracks room hanky panky - I think instructers who bang their recruits should be cashiered).

 

[Strike]

I was once told by a submariner that the reason that it took so long to get women on subs was that the wives thought the women would be a distraction.  What does that say about the husbands?  Would you really want such unprofessional people running a sub?  (personally, I think all submariners are a little crazy and don't understand why ANYONE would want to serve on one, but I'm clausterphobic.)

You're right though.  Women are a distraction.  Look at all the gossip that goes around because a student is rehashing the previous week's activities with her instructor at the mess.  She must be sleeping with him (even though she has a boyfriend).  Can you imagine what that does to morale?  Of course, when a male student does the same with his female instructor there's no way they're sleeping together.  (personal experience here)

I think anyone who uses that excuse is not giving the people they work with any type of credit.  The morale falls not because there are females in traditionally male roles, but because these (certain) men feel some type of inferiority and can only make themselves feel important by bringing someone else down.  It's all very high school and just shows that some people need to do some growing.

Allan,

Hopefully I will get a chance to work with you some day.  You have openly stated that you didn't agree with having women in combat roles.  But it seems at least you approached it all with an open mind.  "I'll see how they do before I pass judgment."  BZ to you.  I have found that the best guys to work with/for are the "old school" types who judge not by what sex you are but by how you perform.  I like that attitude.

 

[ZipperHead]

Stating that women are a distraction, so therefore they shouldn't be there, is much like saying that war is dangerous, so we shouldn't go. I understand the base emotion involved in seeing a woman in a state of undress, but there is another element, professionalism, that makes people carry on. I worked with the Dutch in Bosnia, and we heard tell of the co-ed showers, and because we were raised on a steady diet of Porky's, Animal House, and the other types of frat movies popular in North America, we were giddy with glee to partake. Before you get too worked up, the co-ed showers were actually cubicles, and if you were to jam your face against the shower floor (ewwww!!!!) you may see the first 4 inches of a womans leg (right before she would drive her foot into your eye, probably). I found it strange, and yes, I was all aflutter at the prospect of being naked within 3 feet of a female soldier, separated only by a thin wall, but I got over it fairly quickly. I'm sure it will only be a matter of time before the same sex showers as seen in the sci-fi StarShip Troopers will be a reality, but it will take a bit of a leap for us maturity wise before that happens. I'm sure most guys who went overseas have been to a topless beach, if not a full on nudist beach. The novelty wears off pretty quick.

I think I would rather have a woman who can do her job (mentally and physically), is comfortable in the mostly male environment (ie can tolerate juvenile male humour, doesn't mind hearing the odd swear word or sex story (BTW has any guy here ever been the only guy around a bunch of women talking about sex ..... it can be very uncomfortable (esp. if any of the women are hot  >), and they are usually worse than men in their graphicness.....), and is just part of the group, than some guy who creates hostility within the group with outdated, outmoded lines of thinking, be it racist, sexist or just being a bully towards others. I have seen that enough to realize that those types are more of a problem than a woman could be. As Infanteer mentioned, we have to acknowledge that there will be issues (fraternization), and not pretend it won't happen. I have seen people dating within units, and as long as they aren't in the same chain of command (particularly if one is in a leadership role), things tend to go more smoothly. If people hide their relationships, and then push comes to shove, it could prove to be a problem ("Baby, go attack that MG nest!!!!" "What do you mean no nookie because I made you kill a Commie for mommy?!?!?"). But seriously, I think that if men can "storm the beach" and watch their childhood buddy go down in a hail of bullets and keep pressing on, I think that a man will be able to watch a woman get killed and still press on.

Most of the speculation is what bad things might happen, as opposed to what good things may happen. I'm sure there was/is much resistance to female cops, firefighters, and the like, and I'm sure there are many in those positions that aren't suited for them (be it male or female), but the world didn't implode. On a somewhat relevant note, if you can, watch "Rescue Me", the firefighter show with Denis Leary in it. It's on Showcase, Tuesday night/early Wednesday morning. You'd swear they were army guys with the way they talk about sex, women in their trade, the cameraderie, etc. An excellent, funny show......

As for not wanting women in combat roles, I don't remember stating as much (APS.... aluminum pot syndrome, plus I'm too lazy to re-read my post....) but it probably was implied. I have a vested interest in not neccesarily wanting it to happen: my wife is a medic, and she was in Afghanistan in 2002. When the 4 soldiers were killed, I was quite worried that she was there on the range (ever been to a live fire without medical coverage???). I was very relieved that she wasn't hurt or killed, and I felt the same way that most guys (civvy) wives feel when they hear something like this happens while their husbands are overseas. Some people insinuated it was easier for me (than a civvy wife) as I "know what it's like" over there, but I think it made it harder in some regards. As well, as she has stated (or will state again in a post) she was attached to a infantry platoon for Op Cherokee Sky over in A'stan. She didn't tell me about it until after the fact (OPSEC concerns), but I was still worried, as I knew those types of missions were going to be carried out. She was attached to the Strat Recce Sqn another time over there, and I know that my buddies that were over there would take care of her (no, not that way.... well, as long as it's kept in the Corps, I guess  ^-^). The bottom line is that she is a soldier, she did her job, and had she died while in combat, I would have accepted that she died doing the same job that a male soldier would have been expected to do.

My wife knows that I work with women, and I know that she works with men, and sometimes we see members of the opposite sex in their skivvies, and sleep in close proximity sometimes (a 4 man tent was really designed for 4 midgets I think.....). I'm sure if I was in a tent with 3 severe hardbodies, she would worry somewhat that my ability to control myself would be impaired, but the reality is that after a few days in the field, there isn't a whole lot of attraction going on between the sexes. Yes, I've been known to do the old "snail eyes" in an attempt to check out a female (before I was married, though, I swear to God!!!!!!!!!), but that is pretty much natural, and if it's not "PC natural" I don't think that our natural tendencies have caught up to what the PC police would like (it'll probably take a LOOOONNNGGGG time, I would hope). I think the stories of the "Love Boats" and orgies that occur in mixed gender units are over-blown (wishful thinking, more than likely) and if they do occur, it's probably unit's with shite discipline and (I was about to say a morale problem, but caught myself.....) leadership problems.

Anyway, I hope this thread can continue in a somewhat sensible vein, without the same old tired "don't like it, don't want it to work, so I'll be an idiot about it" that derailed the last couple of threads about this. I would be interested to hear from somebody who has been in combat with women (Medak Pocket, Afghanistan, Iraq, Gulf War 1 or 2, Israel, etc) and hear honest, unbiased opinions, rather than "I was on a 3 day exercise once, and ......." or hearing what somebody's grandpa told them (remember the change in women's roles in society.......).

Cheers,

Al

 

[canadiancarebear]

Being a female of the officer kind in the process of my combat arms trade training for artillery I feel the need to add my 2 cents in. Number 1 :I have NEVER done a push up on my knees. Number 2: I sleep in tents and hoochies with male soldiers on training exercises. They change there,,,,I change there.  At no time do we care about what i believe Pugil called "Human rights Activism".  I may only weigh 115 pounds,,but i keep up and I do have a brain in my head.  Theres weak male soldiers too..you probably just notice the female ones more becuase theres less of them to compare to each other.  Being as Im a lady as well as an officer thats all I have to say on this subject matter,,Thank you.

 

[ZipperHead]

One thing that "carebear" brought up (you go killer  :threat: ) that I forgot to mention in my previous tirades, was the need for women to modify their attitudes, beliefs, comfort levels, whatnot (not a slag at you CCB, because you are doing the trg and adapting) once they join the CF. They joined the army, so they should adapt to the army, not the other way around.

I am thinking back to last summer, while I was teaching a course, and I stepped to the back of a vehicle to take a leak. I looked back (stagefright, I guess  :-[) out of habit, and saw a female sitting in the back of the vehicle. I took another modest few paces forward. She called out, "I can still see you!" I said, "Turn you f&$$ing head then, ma'am! When you go to take a leak overseas, you can't go running into the woods to piss, so lose the modesty". In Bosnia, it was very common to see soldiers, men and women, doing their business on the side of a major road, due to the mine threat. The point is, adapt to the situation. Most men I know go out of view (within reason) but not to the extreme I have seen women go to "tinkle". At the range some of them women I have seen walk out to, a times 14 sight in the Leopard main sight would be required to tell if they were a hermaphrodite or not. Modesty is one thing, but come on..... Most men will turn their head out of respect. Mind you I was taking a "dump" behind a tank once, and another tank drove right up beside me to ask me where someone was. Boy, did I ever feel vulnerable then (especially since there were more than a few female drivers in that Sqn).

Another time, in the beggining of the SHARP era, we had a clerk who spoke up during an OC's brief, and said she was glad that we were changing, because she was sick of the profanity and sexual innuendo she had to put up with throughout her career (she would have had to have joined in the late 70's or early 80's). Anyway, she came to a party in the ESQ's (row houses for single people) and was swearing like a sailor, hitting on the male soldiers. With her husband standing right there. Can you say "hypocrite".

Anyway, I'm sure that most of the women that post here fall into the "adapt to the army" mode, so take my comments with a grain of salt, but it's worth noting that it's not just men that have to adapt to women in their midst, but vice versa.

Just in case anybody cares, I treat women in the CF with kid-gloves (hostile indifference is a fairly good descriptor I've heard used). Is it right? Probably not. Does it protect me? Probably. I was probably a little strong with the hostile indifference comment, but I suppose I:  respect them (if respect is deserved), talk to them as a soldier, leave no room for misinterpretation of intent (doors open, witness present). I have female friends (acquaintances, really who are mostly my friends wives or my wife's coworkers) that are in the CF, and I can joke around with them, but otherwise I don't try to toady up, or be buddy-buddy with female soldiers. Again, probably wrong, but I have yet to be brought up on any harrassment charges by females (yet......). I hate seeing guys falling all over themselves for a female soldier, and the female soldiers that play up the fact that they are female (giggle, show more skin than is neccesary, the whole teenage coquette thing).

Al

 

[big bad john]

Women have no place in the Combat Arms for obvious reasons.   They are a distraction that you don't need to deal with, so why do it?
It has nothing to do with their Fitness level or their 'toughness'' because many are just as 'tough' as their male counter parts and a certain few can make the fitness requirements.   (My youngest daughter plays both Hockey and Rugby for a well known Canadian U, guaranteed she is both tough and fit.   Bench press 120lbs!).

If you can't understand how women introduced into an elite team enviroment can very easily upset the chemstry, I wonder where you have been all your life!

Personally, I've been serving and I have seen my share of women cut it in combat.  It is people with closed minds and harassing attitudes who have no place in an Elite Team environment!

 

[LF(CMO)]

"As an example: the 18-year old son of a guy I know saw an ad in the paper about Hydro-Québec looking for linemen. He applied, and was summonned for an interview and fitness test, which is very similar to out MPFS. Hydro-Qc has determined that being a lineman requires the same effort from everyone, regardless of age or gender. And, their passing-mark for the shuttle-run is level 8  Yes, level 8, a level the majority of CF members cannot reach... Anyway, the kid failed, and was told to return after the 6-month probation period. His dad, an Officer in the CF, told him to join the military.....they would take him."

The Power Linemen's world is still almost totally Male dominated.  There are a few 'token' females.  However, I'm not aware of any that work on the 'Hot Line' Crews ie the teams that change/ replace srtuctures and equipment with the power (from 25kv to 500kv) still on in all kinds of weather day or night.  This is the REAL world, one wrong move at a critical time and you or your fellow Lineman is either dead or seriously injured.  Power Linemen is continually listed in the top 10 of the most hazadous occupations.  For example Fireman only made the top 10 the year after 911.
Go figure. 

 

[Jarnhamar]

I remember taking the police force "ATS" testing in smith falls.
Shooting the shit with one of the officers there, he mentioned to me a story about how two females took the test and failed. Despite them failing the test, and male candidates passing, toronto hired the two failed females because they were female. And they wanted females. The guys who passed got passed up.  Shit happens i guess. Stuff like that irks me.
That seems to happen civi side more than in the forces.


Women as distractions. I'd say yes and no.

I DO see a lot of male soldiers acting like fucking morons anytime females come along. Troops acting like dummies is one thing. When leaders start playing favorites due to gender (which is always obvious to everyone else) someone has to hammer down on it.
Two examples that come to mind.
-A section commander, upon having a female moved to his section, immediately traded his fire team parter (a  guy) with the female soldier comming in (who was origionally a C9 gunner or something). He then spent the rest of the 2 week exercise hitting on her and clinging to her like a stray puppy when you give it food.
-A lieutenant pulled some strings (or did whatever) to get his male driver replaced with a female driver whom he, like the sgt, clung to and hounded like a dog.

I'm sure someone can come up with an excuse.  'Well maybe the male driver was a bad driver and he wanted a better one' bla bla bla.  In both cases it was painfully obvious to everyone. No one wanted to deal with it. Especially in the reserves, the mentality is 'were only here for a little while, lets not make waves, it will go away'

When something like that happens people need to stop it.
Women will be a distraction to some guys, the same way alcohol is a distraction to some guys, the same way 'trouble' is a distraction to guys like me 
If a male soldier isn't professional enough to act like, well a professional, then they should be disciplined. It's as easy as that.

The same goes for girls.
I remember a girl on my QL3 course ignoring her station jobs/personal kit. Every night she would take off for a few hours and always come back with grass all over her back. A few of us tried approaching her and she immediately threw up the "your harassing me and creating a poisonous work environment" bull shit line.  We tried approaching the section commanders and they said their hands were tied and we should deal with it ourselves or just put up with her.  She was a problem the whole course.

Having protocols for harassment is important. It seems to me like it's taken on more of a witch hunt however.
Some people use it to hurt other people.
Others are too afraid to say anything else they get implicated.

 

[Art Johnson]

Some comments.

BBJ, be more specific tell us some actual stories.

CCB, I'm pleased to hear you describe yourself as a lady. If there is anything that this world needs it is more ladies to give us common scruffy Soldiers someone to respect.

I'm an old dinosaur I don't believe in having women in action in the infantry, most men can't make it. I have to think that most of you have not been in action. One of the most elementary of body functions for a man is quite easy, he just has to undo his fly and relieve himself. I would have to think for a woman this function would not be that easy.
I recall an TV interview with a US Tank Commander in Germany after the Cold War and this is one of the points he brought up. The close confines of a tank and the fact that women seem to have to relieve themselves more than men impeded the efficiency of the crew, and that is not even taking into account a womens menstrual period.

 

[Aislinn]

Please don't bring issues like, "women menstruate" into this debate. Yes, we do, but it doesn't have to affect us. Modern medicine is a wonderful thing and women can supress menstration for months at a time with no ill effects and no having to deal with pills (or anything else for that matter) everyday.
A personal opinion against having women in combat roles is fine and, as a woman, it is interesting to hear. Using things like mentstration as an excuse for not having women in these roles is not.

Cheers.

 

[combat_medic]

Let's take a look at the other end of the spectrum for a moment. When I was in WATC in '99 on basic, we got one weekend off in 6 weeks (allowed off base, but not outside city limits). My whole course went to the JRC on base, and once there, ran into a significant number of Brits... hardly uncommon in Wainwright. However, these Brits had just gotten out of the field from a month-long excercise, and had not so much as LOOKED at a woman in that time. The following day there were charges galore for assault, attempted rape, and other such misconduct. All the girls on my course had to be escorted around base during off hours because of this.

I firmly believe that if there were women serving in their unit, that there wouldn't have been anywhere NEAR the amount of disciplinary problems during leave.

I do, however, agree wholeheartedly with getting used to living in close quarters. On one ex I was getting changed out of some wet clothes to get some rack (stripped down to t-shirt and the boxer brief undies) and was amazed at how many people got really awkward about the whole thing. I've also stood by and watched a whole platoon of guys take a leak on the side of the road... damned men and their ability to pee with a ruck on. The maturity level certainly needs to be improved, and I'm certainly not willing to go on a LRRP just to go take a squat in the woods. If you can't behave like an adult about simple body functions, you have no business being a soldier.

...oh, and for the girls who DO want to pee standing up, there's this great invention called a freshette. Certainly made my last winter ex a lot more bearable.

 

[TCBF]

A freshette?

Tom

 

[Peter]

Personally, I've been serving and I have seen my share of women cut it in combat.  It is people with closed minds and harassing attitudes who have no place in an Elite Team environment!

Now in my 31st year of service and I would like to say on this topic that women do have a place in Int units such as 14. But in general combat situations with front line battle hardened troops, they do not!
There are numerous studies and papers written on the subject such as a woman who tried to pass the RM Course and had three bashes at it whereas men are only given the one chance except in the case of injury. No woman has ever attempted Para (P Coy) training, SAS or SBS Selection.
The main factor apart from endurance is the natural male attitude of "we'll protect the little lady" which then puts the entire op on a downward slide.
Also to put it bluntly I have see women peeing standing up, in fact in the soviet army it is common practice.

 

[LF(CMO)]

Now in my 31st year of service and I would like to say on this topic that women do have a place in Int units such as 14. But in general combat situations with front line battle hardened troops, they do not!
There are numerous studies and papers written on the subject such as a woman who tried to pass the RM Course and had three bashes at it whereas men are only given the one chance except in the case of injury. No woman has ever attempted Para (P Coy) training, SAS or SBS Selection.
The main factor apart from endurance is the natural male attitude of "we'll protect the little lady" which then puts the entire op on a downward slide.
Also to put it bluntly I have see women peeing standing up, in fact in the soviet army it is common practice.

The above leads me to believe that you have 'been there done that'!  I find it very difficult to believe that most people that have been in potentialy lethal situations want to intoduce another 'distraction' into the mix to deal with.  Most of us are not Winston Chuchill or Robert E Lee; we are just average people that have had to learn by doing.  I've learned to keep things as simple as possible.  Then when the unexpected happens, you have less things to deal with. 

 

[ZipperHead]

The problem I see whenever somebody uses the quote "I saw this interview once..." is the fact that the person being interviewed can be a total twat, and can have nothing of any value to say, but just because sombody jammed a microphone in their face, are they really worth quoting? Here's an example: "I saw an interview with Ernst Zundel, and he said that the Holocaust never happened...." (For our UK friends, Ernst Zundel is a fairly infamous "person" (to use person loosely) who is a Holocaust denier, and has been deported to his native Germany for his beliefs (and outrageous claims). Anyhoo, yes that's an extreme example, but I remember reading back in one of these related threads about a Royal Navy XO who said (basically) "Any nation that sends women to combat is morally bankrupt" [I just tried to find the thread, but can't, so if anyone remembers it and can find it, please correct me as neccesary] Well, that's a nice opinion on his part, but it doesn't really mean anything about the capabilities of women in combat. As for the quote from the US Army tank commander about women relieving themselves in the confines of a tank: I was on my LSVW course with a female Artillery soldier, and she commented on the fact that the little access hole in front of the drivers seat in the floorboard would be a good place to take a leak. Yes, she was being coarse and was joking, but I think the point is: where there's a will, there's a way. I know a few guys who absolutely can't piss if anybody is around, or looking. They should kick them out I guess, for Universality of Service requirement to be able to piss under people's observation. How about guys with TBS (Tiny Bladder Syndrome)?

A lot of the reasons that are trotted out aren't really anything more than excuses, not reasons, why people think women shouldn't be in combat. As for our guests from the UK, you have brought up the fact that women have a difficult time with SF selection: I think that probably has a lot to do with the fact that (correct me if I'm wrong) that there are no women in your Combat Arms, and I'm sure that a lot of the male soldiers coming from non combat arms backgrounds have difficulty with it as well. Yes, the women may get more kicks at the can, but that is politics in action.

Somebody has yet to point out that there is a female SAR Tech in the CF. That is a trade where I would hope that they didn't change the standards to accommodate anyone. And if she hasn't been able to cut it, I'm sure that would have been splashed across the headlines, as it would have probably involved the loss of civilian life, as that is the primary target audience for SAR Techs (in peacetime). The reason I mention SAR Tech is because, while it may not be considered SF, it is a very desirable course for those in the Combat Arms, and the selection process is very demanding. Someone else mentioned they saw Secret Squirrels(JTF2)  in the barracks, and there were females in their group, but AFAIK, they are only support personnel (I know one of them), not at the pointy end.

Again, before I am tagged as a tree-hugging, lady loving, granola eating PC type, I would like to make it clear: there should only be one standard for the military (and if they have to lower it, it shouldn't be at the Combat Arms end) and that should be a high standard, based on real world requirements (unlike the joke weight they use for the BFT). And a healthy dose of reality needs to be injected into the training at the beginning of a soldiers career so that it can be determined if a soldier has got what it takes then, not on the battlefield. I'm thinking of escape and evasion trg, heavy duty weapons trg (not the familiarization that takes place), resistance to interrogation, pugil stick trg for all (not just infantry), brutal rucksack marches (not the walk in the park BFT), etc. I know what the official reaction to this train of thought would be: "Oh my God! An average person could never endure that type of training!!!" Exactly.

Al

 

[ArmyRick]

Women in combat ? Absolutely. NO doubt.

I have served with some tough ladies. One is a freind of mine and she is now a MCPL in a reserve infantry unit (no names, no pack drill ) She was with us during my second tour over seas. We had to raid the banks in Bosnia (Bank Hercegovina), the Can BG had to do Tomislavgrad (Hour and half away from split). Anyways the locals took a real disliking to it. They starting getting fired up and threwing junk at us. She stood her ground and didn't budge.

Have any of you guys met Captain E. Taylor (RCR REG F) ? She is tough little officer.

All the arguments for not having women in combat is Bullsh&t !

They can shoot, hump rucks, kill, be killed just like men.

Final note, if I find people going on with this argument at work, I don't hesitate to get into their faces about it.

 

[Peter]

Rick,
I hate to point this out, but there is a slight difference between junk and live rounds Dont wish to demean you but live rounds hurt a little bit more than junk I know!
You have your views, unfortuneatly they suck and show a total disregard for the women!

Allan,
Depends on your term Combat arms and what Regiments you include in this. As to SAR tech, they do a wonderful job and I know a couple, but that is still not putting women into the direct firing line is it? Incidentally women make excellent Secret Squirrels. As to training Standards of SF, when a women can pass all the tests at the same standard and in the same time as the men, yes they should be admitted, however, I cannot see that ever happening!

 

[Jarnhamar]

She was with us during my second tour over seas. We had to raid the banks in Bosnia (Bank Hercegovina), the Can BG had to do Tomislavgrad (Hour and half away from split). Anyways the locals took a real disliking to it. They starting getting fired up and threwing junk at us. She stood her ground and didn't budge.

On the other side of the coin, on the same tour, a reserve female soldier while playing soccer with some kids for some kind of fun day in kupres (and getting our ass kicked) almost had a break down (looked like she was in tears if i recall) because every time she would get the ball both the boys on the other team AND the bystanders would look at her, point and laugh.  I assumed they weren't accustomed to females playing sports with males or whatever.  She was a good soccer player too. Way better than me but she let some 15 year olds get to her and had to quit.

I also remember a male reserve soldier who upon hearing distant gunshots while working in the french AOR (on exchange) refused to get out of the grizzly as i'm told.


I think menstruation can be a valid enough point.  I recall hearing a war story from a medic about a female soldier who, while menstruating, was embarrassed and left a certain device inside her for over a week. Long story short it turned her legs green and she got pretty sick.
Menstruating doesn't seem to be anymore of a problem than soldiers allergic to metal the sun or the grass.  I think the problem lies simply in the soldiers training. Not taking care of your body is stupid and you should be disciplined for it.

I'm one of those looser guys who get stage fright and can't piss near anyone (unless I'm drunk which the military doesn't like you to be while working).  Depending on what I drink i can also get IBBS so i gotta piss a lot. I've always found women use the washroom a lot less then men, probably out of necessity though.  
If a soldier can't use the washroom in front of others then they are in a world of hurt.  Having stagefright while on a footpatrol, i couldn't piss behind the carrier into a little bottle so i walked around a corner into a run down garage/shed, hopped up onto a big pile of debris and started to piss.  All the mine awareness training went right out the window, i was standing on some busted up wooden boxes.  Section commander freaked. I learned to piss in front of people if need be

Probably my only real gripe with women in the infantry (aside from guys acting like horn dogs near them or them flirting with everyone, tee hee hee hee,I'm a girl, hee hee, I'm so cute)  is their attitude sometimes.  I find female police officers put on an attitude dealing with males.  Where I've seen male officers be relaxed and calm during traffic stops, the female officer has been rude, aggressive and mean. Like their trying to prove something.   I know there are obvious reasons for this but still.  It's like they feel they need to demand respect.  Same happens in the CF I've felt.  Women seem to feel like they need to demand respect from male soldiers instead of earn it. I'm sure the blame for this goes both ways. Whats a good way to combat this? Combat Medic pointed it out.  Male soldiers working more with female soldiers.

Females taking a piss in front of males?  On a BFT right before stepping off a female soldier went about 15 or 20 feet off the road,  practically in full view of the platoon and went to the washroom. It wasn't just a piss either.