A Columbine Father Speaks Out

[Bruce Monkhouse]

I hate guns......but I agree 100% with that old cliche we all know by now about outlawing guns and only the outlaws will have them.

I hate turnups also...................should I think its right to take away the pleasure of those that do like them?

 

[HItorMiss]

Really in the end Gun's do not kill people. People kill people. Old cliche yes but an accurate one. When a person makes a conscious decision to harm another they will do it. If they have a gun then they shoot them. If they have a Knife they stabbed them, sometimes it's fist too.

Guns are a facilitator but they are by no means the cause of violence. And people who register their firearms are not generally the ones who use them committing crimes.

 

[Yrys]

Guns are a facilitator

I may be deliruous, but it seems to me that those facilitators may help people with rash emotions
do violemce when otherwise, without them, they may have more time to think, and choose to desist...

 

[IN HOC SIGNO]

This really disappoints me, I would've expected better from you.

Why because i thank God that I live in the best country in the world bar none? I thank God that I don't live in the UK or France also. I've travelled to a lot of countries in the world and always thank God that I don't live in any of them but rather i live in this one...where I believe we have a unique and outstanding quality of life.

 

[HItorMiss]

I may be delirious, but it seems to me that those facilitators may help people with rash emotions
do violence when otherwise, without them, they may have more time to think, and choose to desist...

Not delirious no. However your talking crimes of passion and you're right they may not kill someone because they do not have a gun. However it would be likely that assault would be a likely outcome. If were talking thought out methodical crimes, they would be committed regardless. The criminal would just find some other way to effect his plan other then a gun. I mean staring down the barrel of a fire arm or looking at 3 feet of tempered sharp steel of a sword makes little difference to me I will be compliant because both of them will rendered me well and truly perished.

 

[IN HOC SIGNO]

IHS - Your bit about "fully automatic assault rifles" is gratuitous, and quite frankly off-topic (I won't get into the redundancy of the phrase). None of the killers listed above used FA, none of the defenders used FA. Holly-wierd propaganda notwithstanding, FA isn't a great deal easier to obtain in the US than it is here.

To make the leap from debating CCW of a handgun by a trained and qualified non-felon, to decrying the free-love availability of personal machine guns (completely ignoring the fact that the notion is incorrect), is the height of faulty debating. It's blatant emotionalism, and suggests both a lack of understanding of the topic, and a prejudice that approaches "knee-jerk."

This is not the skilled auteur I have enjoyed reading in other threads. What happened?

Edit - "demonstrates" changed to "suggests". The original was too pompous and judgemental, even for me. 

Sorry to disappoint you. I think I'm entitled to my opinion on this matter as you are entitled to yours. Suggesting that I somehow don't understand the issue is insulting to my intelligence and of course designed to belittle my opinion by writing it off as that of someone who has no business commentng on it. I have every right to offer my opinion on the topic. 

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Why because i thank God that I live in the best country in the world bar none? I thank God that I don't live in the UK or France also. I've travelled to a lot of countries in the world and always thank God that I don't live in any of them but rather i live in this one...where I believe we have a unique and outstanding quality of life.

Thats not what you said in your post.........nice save, Dominic Hasek would be proud.

Lets carry on.........

 

[Hunteroffortune]

Why because i thank God that I live in the best country in the world bar none? I thank God that I don't live in the UK or France also. I've travelled to a lot of countries in the world and always thank God that I don't live in any of them but rather i live in this one...where I believe we have a unique and outstanding quality of life.

I thank God that I live in the best county in the world too  , but I wonder how we can keep it that way. The only ones with guns are the criminals, this makes us easy targets. Even though we have restricted handguns since the 30's, they are readily available to the criminals. The Dawson College killer had legally registered guns, how did that happen?

You are entitled to your opinion, but have you thought about what other people might be going through? As a female, I am told to hold my car keys in my hand to defend myself, sure, as a small female, I'm going to be able to fight off a 200 pound male with a key? Why can't I have a gun? That would equalize the playing field, and maybe I have a fair chance of not being raped and killed. Just my opinion.

 

[KevinB]

God made man -- Sam Colt made men equal...
  CCW for women is a huge issue, specifically from the disparity of mass that an attacker may have.  I for one, beleive as more women speak out on the horrors that have befallen them, that momentum will build in Canada to provide people the means to lawfully protect themselves from predatory parts of society.

The fact that based on American research that crime goes down when areas have CCW.  Unlike visions of the WildWest from TV, the fact bare out that people do not run out and go crazy when allowed to legally carry firearms for defensive purposes.

 

[tank recce]

Sorry to disappoint you. I think I'm entitled to my opinion on this matter as you are entitled to yours. Suggesting that I somehow don't understand the issue is insulting to my intelligence and of course designed to belittle my opinion by writing it off as that of someone who has no business commentng on it. I have every right to offer my opinion on the topic. 

IHS - You are of course entitled to your opinion, and to present it; in no way would I presume to attempt to shut you up, nor suggest that you tend to your knitting.

What prompted my comment was, along with reasonably presented concerns of what you feel to be the over-prevalence of handguns, your interjection into (what has become) a debate on the merits of CCW of a comment on the availability and necessity of "fully automatic assault rifles." Given that one has nothing to do with the other, I can only presume that either you truly do not know of which you speak (dubious), or you are trying to throw out an emotional red herring (disappointing, given the quality of posts and arguments I've seen from you).

If there is a third option, I would be delighted to read your presentation and debate the merits of your argument.

 

[IN HOC SIGNO]

IHS - You are of course entitled to your opinion, and to present it; in no way would I presume to attempt to shut you up, nor suggest that you tend to your knitting.

What prompted my comment was, along with reasonably presented concerns of what you feel to be the over-prevalence of handguns, your interjection into (what has become) a debate on the merits of CCW of a comment on the availability and necessity of "fully automatic assault rifles." Given that one has nothing to do with the other, I can only presume that either you truly do not know of which you speak (dubious), or you are trying to throw out an emotional red herring (disappointing, given the quality of posts and arguments I've seen from you).

If there is a third option, I would be delighted to read your presentation and debate the merits of your argument.

I don't agree that it was a red herring. the whole issue of the availability of firearms is one as far as I am concerned. If it's more complicated than that then I'll just have to be forgiven my ignorance. I think i stated what my opinion was fairly succinctly....I believe that there is a necessity to restrict handguns to those who enforce/keep the peace (and only when they are engaged in said duty...leave them at the garrison or office*)
Long guns for hunting need not be "automatic weapons" or the assault rifle type.

Those who collect or who have a a hobby target shooting should be licenced by a FAC after the appropriate training as they are now. I'm not naive enough to think that no one will ever use a weapon to commit a crime if we keep the status quo (I'm not a fan of the Liberal's long  gun registry btw....huge waste of time and money)

As far as statistics for areas where there are a lot of armed folks....well "...there are lies, there are damned lies and there are statistics." Who did the study? Why? etc etc. I don't put much stock in such things I'm afraid to say.

*we had an incidence here in NS where a RCMP officer discharged her weapon at home in a domestic dispute x9 into a wall......shouldn't even have been allowed to have the weapon in the home....no one was injured but I think her kid was somewhat traumatized.

 

[proudnurse]

Well obviously your not well versed on US Gun laws
  To obtain a firearm in the US these days there is a NCICS done (National Criminal Instant Check System) -- the concept being that a free society one is inocent until proven guilty and non felons can buy firearms.  P.S. Most states (and now Va.) do not allow people that are reported to mental health to buy firearms either.
To be able to buy a handgun w/o a waiting period one will need that states CCW permit (and having the background and trainign for it already done).  Also you may not buy a handgun if from out of state.

WAY more people die from drunk driving that firearms -- and I dont see the outcry about that.
I'm sorry but its been proven that criminals who want guns will still get them regardless of the checks in place.  Secondly LONG guns are WAY more lethal than handguns -- your buying into the fearmongering of those who want to disarm the populace.

I gravitated to this thread yesterday, read a little bit of it and it got me thinking. And this question came to mind for me "What about drunk driving?" then I came back, read what you had stated here Infidel-6 and I said to myself Bingo (in reference to Drunk Driving!)  I have always felt, that the 'outcry' so to speak about the gun laws, has always been blown way out of proportion. How so many, are so quick to blame the 'gun' and not the person who is carrying it. A vehicle in itself can become a weapon of it's own depending on who is behind that wheel. You can walk into any car dealership, or flip through the classifieds and purchase a vehicle. Does not matter about your history, as long as you have the money you are good to go.

~Rebecca

 

[Fyuri]

My opinions...

It would be really nice to think we could disarm the populace, and everyone would be safe and happy. Hooray. The problem with making firearms more difficult to obtain, is that it's only becoming more difficult for those who wish to legally own and use them. Criminals with intent to harm will still come by them just as easily, and, sad to say, that may never change.

In my uneducated opinion, if everyone was armed, and everyone KNEW that everyone else was armed, there would be less massacres. There may be more crimes of passion, spur of the moment type thing, but I am not well versed enough to say if it would be worth the tradeoff or not.

I figure it works with nuclear arms for the most part, everyone knows others have them, so they won't get used, at least for now.

They try to promote deterrence to reform criminals, but yet they can't fathom the idea that arming the populace may just be the deterrent needed.

-Paul

 

[IN HOC SIGNO]

I gravitated to this thread yesterday, read a little bit of it and it got me thinking. And this question came to mind for me "What about drunk driving?" then I came back, read what you had stated here Infidel-6 and I said to myself Bingo (in reference to Drunk Driving!)  I have always felt, that the 'outcry' so to speak about the gun laws, has always been blown way out of proportion. How so many, are so quick to blame the 'gun' and not the person who is carrying it. A vehicle in itself can become a weapon of it's own depending on who is behind that wheel. You can walk into any car dealership, or flip through the classifieds and purchase a vehicle. Does not matter about your history, as long as you have the money you are good to go.

~Rebecca

I think this is a bit of a stretch. Guns were specifically designed to kill or wound....cars are designed as transportation.

 

[KevinB]

IHS - The problem is your obviously not conversant with shooting that much.  Your wanting to restrict my right and freedoms enjoying my sport based on the irrational fear of an inanimate onbect (a firearm).  The fact that your drawing a line between good and bad guns shows you've bought into someones idea that a gun is the cause.
  Quite frankly the fact is vehicles kill a lot more people in Canada than guns -- why does a car need to go more than 110kph?  Obviously is an EVIL racing car that has no purpose in society but to break the law and endanger others. 

  However the nice thing about living in a Liberal Democracy (well to the extent that Canada is still a liberal democracy with the enaction of all these nanny state laws) is that MY rights end at your face.  We can own guns, cars and practise freedom of religion.  As soon as one becomes a danger to society that is when the state steps in.  Not before -- its an important step in being FREE.
  A Police State is one where only the Gov't has firearms -- and I dont think anyone wants to live in a Police State (unless they are the ones controlling it -- then the rules dont apply to them anyway)

 

[Teflon]

Well said Infidel !

 

[Samsquanch]

I really enjoy shooting my rifles and shotguns. I hunt all sorts of small game I.E toasters, ovens, T.V's and dishes...... When it comes to handguns and some types of assualt rifles in this country. I just don't understand why the laws are so restrictive.
A motivated person wanting to do harm on another person can buy anything he\she wants (no respect for the laws). The recrectional shooter such as myself who is responsible, is often detered from buying handguns and certain makes of assualt rifles due to the limitations of use and transportation. Basically I feel the laws have no bearing on those who would intentionally break them. And those of us who enjoy going "blamin" on the weekends are punished....

 

[KevinB]

and a little art, cuz a picture is worth...

 

[TCBF]

You are entitled to your opinion, but have you thought about what other people might be going through? As a female, I am told to hold my car keys in my hand to defend myself, sure, as a small female, I'm going to be able to fight off a 200 pound male with a key? Why can't I have a gun? That would equalize the playing field, and maybe I have a fair chance of not being raped and killed. Just my opinion.

- Unfortunately, you have to realize that 'political' women in Canada believe that a raped and murdered female found with her pantyhose twisted around her neck makes for far better "sisterhood" optics than if she was found holding a smoking handgun over the dead body of her attacker.

 

[Dissident]

Magic. That's the answer. It must be.

A few occupation in Canada carry firearms for work. We expect these people to use their judgement and only use these firearms when necessary. People Warriors who everyday put their life at risk, because they have answered the call of protecting the herd. Somehow, these people are not to be trusted with that responsibility once they take the uniform off.

I guess the uniform is magical and imbues the persons who wears it with knowledge and wisdom not attainable by mere human beings.