6 Jan 2020 U.S. Events (Split from A Deeply Fractured US)

[Weinie]

Hope he isn't Canadian. / shame emoji /

I guess as long as he isolates for the proscribed period when he comes back that we will be OK with it.

 

[FJAG]

Didn't the British/Dominion sort of support the Confederate during the civil war?

Sure. The South had cotton and the Brits had cotton manufacturing textile mills. It was an economic thing that resulted in a lot of "wink, wink, nudge, nudge."

 

[Kilted]

Didn't the British/Dominion sort of support the Confederate during the civil war?

In the way of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend." Relations between the US and Britain/Canada in that time period were not good. A divided enemy at our gates was better then a united one.

 

[Underway]

Geopolitics gives no hoots about morality unless its convenient.

 

[Kilted]

Geopolitics gives no hoots about morality unless its convenient.

I think that surviving as a nation was the lesser of two evils. Even if the South had of won, slavery wouldn't have lasted forever. Canada at the same time was a beacon of hope for escaped slaves.

 

[Underway]

Law and Order went out the window with George Floyd riots and many of those areas suffer from a lack of policing thanks in large part to the actions of Democratic politicians, who either tied the police hands or made it clear that any officer accused of anything will be tossed to the wolves.
As for the "insurrection", had that really been the goal, then the body count would be much higher. This was a protest that succeeded beyond the wildest dreams of most who attended.

Black Lives Matter Protests. Renaming them to call them George Floyd riots is again a snuck premise. You are consistently trying to apply a moralistic tinge to an event in your favor. Stop the false morality train and apply the correct terminology. You're obviously intentionally trying to create a moral equivalency that doesn't exist or taint the view of the situation to your position.

As for an insurrection, don't confuse competence or body count with intent. There are such things as bloodless coups (successful insurrections that don't kill anyone). It's been quoted here what the definition of an insurrection is. I suggest you take off your partisan hat and read it. Body count, or amount of violence is not in the definition.

As for lack of policing there are so many complicated and converging issues that would be impossible to go through here. Institutional racism, poor neighborhoods vs rich ones, rural vs urban, voting district bias, elected police officials with no training, no deficit spending laws combined with low taxation, political meddling with police initiatives, mistakes in understanding what protest was happening, bad tactics by the police department, underfunding and on and on. One could write a thesis on this stuff.

 

[Navy_Pete]

I think that surviving as a nation was the lesser of two evils. Even if the South had of won, slavery wouldn't have lasted forever. Canada at the same time was a beacon of hope for escaped slaves.

And yet, we have examples like Africville, where it was less a beacon and escaped slaves were more of a source for cheap labour. I don't think we should wear too rosy glasses when looking at Canadian history.

 

[Kilted]

And yet, we have examples like Africville, where it was less a beacon and escaped slaves were more of a source for cheap labour. I don't think we should wear too rosy glasses when looking at Canadian history.

We're not perfect, but we are at least better then the states. Many of the darker parts of our history were common for the time. I'm not going to try and justify or apologize for them, they happened. There still is a lot of things in our history that we have to be proud about. I'm not going to let cancel culture make me feel guilty about things that happened over 100 years before I was born.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Black Lives Matter Protests. Renaming them to call them George Floyd riots is again a snuck premise. You are consistently trying to apply a moralistic tinge to an event in your favor. Stop the false morality train and apply the correct terminology. You're obviously intentionally trying to create a moral equivalency that doesn't exist or taint the view of the situation to your position.

As for an insurrection, don't confuse competence or body count with intent. There are such things as bloodless coups (successful insurrections that don't kill anyone). It's been quoted here what the definition of an insurrection is. I suggest you take off your partisan hat and read it. Body count, or amount of violence is not in the definition.

As for lack of policing there are so many complicated and converging issues that would be impossible to go through here. Institutional racism, poor neighborhoods vs rich ones, rural vs urban, voting district bias, elected police officials with no training, no deficit spending laws combined with low taxation, political meddling with police initiatives, mistakes in understanding what protest was happening, bad tactics by the police department, underfunding and on and on. One could write a thesis on this stuff.

I use the terms BLM/George Floyd somewhat interchangeably as some were caused by either or both. Had there been real intent to cause an insurrection they would have come armed to the teeth, that they didn't shows that their intent is to show their displeasure at the events and the response to their concerns. For a lot of them, Trump is their only hope of been represented and they feel that has been unfairly been taken away from them. You don't have to say they are right, but if you want to solve the problem, you must understand what their motivations are.

 

[Ralph]

Sigh...................OK, your fuel and hamburger rebuttal vs my philosophical argument.

A monopoly is defined as :



the exclusive possession or control of the supply of or trade in a commodity or service.

• a company or group having exclusive control over a commodity or service
  
  
• a commodity or service in the exclusive control of a company or group.

Thought is neither a commodity or service, but those who wield influence have, over the last several decades, ofttimes conflated that influence with the idea that their particular idea was the only viable idea. Consequently, a monopoly of thought, which contravenes the thinking in any democratic political system or belief, should be anathema in any cognitive process, including yours, which apparently it is since we are having this discussion,.

I'm simply arguing that your use of the word monopoly makes as much sense as saying Apple has a monopoly on personal computers. A monopoly has one owner. A group of companies making up a monopoly have to be owned by the same owner. Like the board game of the same name. Or say a nation where the ruler's word is law under penalty of death. Which idea are you arguing this monopoly thought over, anyway?

 

[Jarnhamar]

Trump is their only hope of been represented and they feel that has been unfairly been taken away from them. You don't have to say they are right, but if you want to solve the problem, you must understand what their motivations are.

If Biden (or I suspect Harris soon enough) isn't careful how they handle this the next time one of these things happen the audience might be a little more organized and serious about either holding ground or hurting people.

 

[Kat Stevens]

If Biden (or I suspect Harris soon enough) isn't careful how they handle this the next time one of these things happen the audience might be a little more organized and serious about either holding ground or hurting people.

I think if the plan to impeach goes ahead, and he goes to jail, that country will burn.

 

[Navy_Pete]

We're not perfect, but we are at least better then the states. Many of the darker parts of our history were common for the time. I'm not going to try and justify or apologize for them, they happened. There still is a lot of things in our history that we have to be proud about. I'm not going to let cancel culture make me feel guilty about things that happened over 100 years before I was born.

Sure, I agree to a point. But I also think we need to recognize that 'better than the US' can be a pretty low bar, and not pretend we did things perfect.

When I got posted to Halifax my neighbour actually grew up in Africville, and hadn't ever heard of it, so was kind of appalled when I read about it. And that grew directly out of descendents of escaped slaves as well as black loyalists that fought for the crown, so kind of disengenous that it was sheer altruism and also ignore that we really shat on their descendants, who only finally got some recognitions of their deeds recently.

Growing up the history we got in school was pretty massively filtered, and generally the only First Nations things we saw were like Potemkin villages. The last residential schools ran until the 1990s, so that's also contemporary. It was pretty eye opening to read the TRC report, as none of that stuff was ever mentioned in school, so really knocked some blinders off for me personally on what I thought Canada was, as I had a pretty one sided view of how awesome we were.

If you want to celebrate good things that happened 100 years before you were born, you should also recognize bad things that happened in the same time frame. I think to do otherwise is willful ignorance, and also means that the lasting effects from those previous deeds will continue to drag on until we recognize them and make them right. Sure, it was awesome to give escaped slaves somewhere to go, but not so awesome to subsequently pack them into a slum (with deeds), never run any infrastructure to it, turn it into a dump, then ignore any of their deeds and bulldoze their houses and community. The whole story from then to know is a lot less Heritage moment, but we shouldn't pretend it didn't happen.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Black Lives Matter Protests. Renaming them to call them George Floyd riots is again a snuck premise.

There were at least two things going on: BLM protests, and riots and general hooliganism for the sake of it by people using BLM protests as cover to just because they like to break things and loot.

 

[brihard]

The man with the Confederate flag has been identified as Ricky Tollikko aka Ricky Rush, 5'6", of Calgary, Alberta.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1347417837376303105th

ADD: Apparently there is some doubt about this identification.

I think if the plan to impeach goes ahead, and he goes to jail, that country will burn.

Oh, he’ll be impeached in the house easily enough, but I doubt he’ll face trial in the senate. My money is McConnell kicks the can down the road beyond the inauguration date to save Senate republicans from the embarrassing dilemma of having to vote on it.

 

[FJAG]

Oh, he’ll be impeached in the house easily enough, but I doubt he’ll face trial in the senate. My money is McConnell kicks the can down the road beyond the inauguration date to save Senate republicans from the embarrassing dilemma of having to vote on it.

Maybe he will. This from Fox News:

Mitch McConnell sends letter to GOP senators on impeachment procedure summary​

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., on Friday sent a letter to GOP senators sharing a summary of how the upper chamber could legally "dispose of any articles of impeachment" against President Trump before Jan. 20.

The letter came after House Democrats drafted new articles of impeachment against the president Friday following a deadly riot at the Capitol. A mob of Trump loyalists broke into the building Wednesday in hopes of to stopping Congress from certifying President-elect Joe Biden's victory.

 

[lenaitch]

I think if the plan to impeach goes ahead, and he goes to jail, that country will burn.

Impeachment is a political process, not a criminal one. He could, theoretically, face jail time but that would be a separate process.

 

[brihard]

Maybe he will. This from Fox News:

No move before 19 January unless the senate unanimously consents, which they obviously won’t.

I actually have no idea what happen if the President transitions before the conclusion of the proceedings. Hypothetically could they meaningfully continue with it with the potential consequence of future disqualification from office?

 

[lenaitch]

True, dat, but are these the same kind of cable ties electricians/plumbers use routinely (I ask because I'm neither)? (source)
View attachment 64331

No, those appear to be the type specifically designed for law enforcement (double loop and attachment block). The original question was whether they were legal, am I'm not aware of a law (up here) restricting their use.

MgTech Heavy Duty Police Nylon Double Cuff Zip Ties Handcuffs Disposable Black Plastic Cable Ties, 27.5", 250-lb, One Pack : Amazon.ca: Tools & Home Improvement

MgTech Heavy Duty Police Nylon Double Cuff Zip Ties Handcuffs Disposable Black Plastic Cable Ties, 27.5", 250-lb, One Pack : Amazon.ca: Tools & Home Improvement

www.amazon.ca

Back in the day when I was one the road, I carried a few of the regular type in my hat.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Let us hope Biden says "It's time to move forward and put away the past". Couple that with a "Commission to improve voting procedures" and that will satisfy a lot of the moderate right for the time being. It also means your not pushing people into a corner where they feel they have nothing to lose.