2022 CPC Leadership Discussion: Et tu Redeux

[Fishbone Jones]

Who here is it that you believe doesn’t want an election sooner rather than later, and who here do you think doesn’t expect a clear CPC victory? I don’t actually see anyone expressing either of those things.

If you're bored, I can take that tact just to liven things up. I haven’t had a good troll in awhile.

 

[brihard]

If you're bored, I can take that tact just to liven things up. I haven’t had a good troll in awhile.

Not that bored, but if you think anyone here actually wants that (versus wanting one thing but seeing various other possibilities in play), go nuts.

 

[suffolkowner]

Depends. If a BB (backbencher) is in a former Liberal safe riding (many of these ridings are falling because of Trudeau, we have hit a pinnacle at this point), they may decide save their own futures and at least win their own ridings back (My MP voted against Trudeau). WHEN the liberals fall, it is a gold star on their CV when they throw their name in the hat for the Leadership race.

i think one of the problems with this is that the leader signs the nomination papers. Not sure if this is true for all parties?

 

[Furniture]

Correct. PP knows this. His audiences may not. It will take big legislative changes to make what he wants happen.

I mean, he'll have a majority so legislative changes aren't going to be that hard, unless the LPC senators decide to undermine the way the GoC has operated for the last 150+ years... I'm sure nothing bad could come from playing those games for partisan purposes.

The CPC are pretty sure they are going to form the next government. I'd be pretty shocked if they didn't have draft legislation for their big ticket changes ready to go on day one... Even if the LPC senators play games, it gives the CBC a few more months/years to try to save itself(most Canadians have long since tuned out the CBC) before being pared down to a husk of its current self.

 

[Remius]

I mean, he'll have a majority so legislative changes aren't going to be that hard, unless the LPC senators decide to undermine the way the GoC has operated for the last 150+ years... I'm sure nothing bad could come from playing those games for partisan purposes.

That’s just it. The senate may be an issue for him depending on what he has planned. Legislative changes to the CBC could be one of those things.

The CPC are pretty sure they are going to form the next government. I'd be pretty shocked if they didn't have draft legislation for their big ticket changes ready to go on day one... Even if the LPC senators play games, it gives the CBC a few more months/years to try to save itself(most Canadians have long since tuned out the CBC) before being pared down to a husk of its current self.

It’s possible that they do. One of my critiques of the last CPC government was crafting bad legislation in order to pump it out and deal with the appeals to the courts later. I would not be shocked if that were to happen again for some things. Mind you they will have some runway at the beginning.

 

[RangerRay]

I mean, he'll have a majority so legislative changes aren't going to be that hard, unless the LPC senators decide to undermine the way the GoC has operated for the last 150+ years... I'm sure nothing bad could come from playing those games for partisan purposes.

The CPC are pretty sure they are going to form the next government. I'd be pretty shocked if they didn't have draft legislation for their big ticket changes ready to go on day one... Even if the LPC senators play games, it gives the CBC a few more months/years to try to save itself(most Canadians have long since tuned out the CBC) before being pared down to a husk of its current self.

I don’t think you realize how much politics/governmenting is a “fly-by-the-seat-of-your-pants, legislation-written-on-the-back-of-a-napkin” operation by all sides.

 

[Furniture]

That’s just it. The senate may be an issue for him depending on what he has planned. Legislative changes to the CBC could be one of those things.

I can se that being a dangerous game for the LPC. Getting voted out for a CPC majority, then using unelected LPC senators to prevent the elected government from doing what they promise could backfire in a bad way.

Bad for Canada as a whole, not just bad for the LPC... Hopefully the "independent" senators are smart enough to see that, and limit themselves to attempting to prevent the cuts from going too deep.

I think there is a strong case for an English CBC, that focuses on markets where there is no business case for private media. CBC relatively recently brought back Compass, the local PEI nightly TV news. It covers things that mater is Islanders, but not necessarily Canadians in general. There is value in that sort of a public broadcaster, rather than the bloated news/culture/entertainment behemoth we have now.

 

[Furniture]

I don’t think you realize how much politics/governmenting is a “fly-by-the-seat-of-your-pants, legislation-written-on-the-back-of-a-napkin” operation by all sides.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not expecting they have perfect or even great legislation drafted. I'm simply confident they have legislation that will be presented, then sorted through committee and senate hearings.

 

[brihard]

On the principle of “it’s the economy, stupid!”, I think the imminent CPC government will focus its early efforts on consolidating the executive branch and getting policy in play to placate the Americans.

Canada’s single biggest ‘right now’ challenge is what seems about to happen with tariffs; they’re being wielded clumsily to club us into line on some policy choices, but in the short term some degree of acquiescence is both unavoidable and necessary. A lot of this will probably mostly be continuing things the LPC have already put in play regarding a refocus of law enforcement and intelligence on border issues. There will also probably be a full court press to work diplomacy with governors and congresscritters whose states or districts are economically vulnerable to retaliatory tariffs from our end.

Domestically, an aggressive and expansive, yet realistic defense white paper is called for. The envisioned growth of CAF necessitates it. Poillievre might be super skittish about committing to the type of defence spending that’s in order, but he’s painted into that corner whether he likes it or not. It’s a big part of what he’s inheriting, and he won’t be able to blame anyone else if he fails to step up. He’ll have a four year mandate, so he can punt things like housing for now. He may have to. Paying for defense and security will not be easy or fun.

Poillievre is going to be hitting the ground having to run. He has never governed before, nor has most of his current party apparatus. I don’t think fast legislation will necessarily be the order of the day.

 

[RangerRay]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not expecting they have perfect or even great legislation drafted. I'm simply confident they have legislation that will be presented, then sorted through committee and senate hearings.

I personally have had experience with legislation I’m positive had to be written by the Minister and his business buddies on the back of a napkin in a Denny’s that went through all those steps and was still passed. That or it was written by 20 year old staffers in the Premier’s Office in one night on a coke bender. Then we had to try to make that dogs’ breakfast work. And I learned that that was not a unique situation nor relegated to only one party.

 

[Remius]

I personally have had experience with legislation I’m positive had to be written by the Minister and his business buddies on the back of a napkin in a Denny’s that went through all those steps and was still passed. That or it was written by 20 year old staffers in the Premier’s Office in one night on a coke bender. Then we had to try to make that dogs’ breakfast work. And I learned that that was not a unique situation nor relegated to only one party.

And then people rail against the SCC when they overturn said bad legislation when challenged. I’m sure it must be a challenge to work at the Justice Department and departmental legal/policy teams when putting that crap together and getting ignored when pointing out the flaws…

 

[dapaterson]

I personally have had experience with legislation I’m positive had to be written by the Minister and his business buddies on the back of a napkin in a Denny’s that went through all those steps and was still passed. That or it was written by 20 year old staffers in the Premier’s Office in one night on a coke bender. Then we had to try to make that dogs’ breakfast work. And I learned that that was not a unique situation nor relegated to only one party.

There is no party of all angels and no party of all devils.

There is, however, only one party of Rhinos.

 

[Halifax Tar]

@Remius and @Furniture

What about an OIC ? This seems to be the way around our troublesome processes.

Honest question as I don't know how they work or their arcs of fire

 

[dapaterson]

@Remius and @Furniture

What about an OIC ? This seems to be the way around our troublesome processes.

Honest question as I don't know how they work or their arcs of fire

OICs require legislation authorizing their use. They can't be randomly implemented without underlying lawful authorities.

 

[dapaterson]

For fun, you can look up OICs in the online database at: Orders In Council - Search

You can even see where they messed up and correct things - for example, the original OIC naming a military judge mentioned the wrong province of licensure, so an amendment had to be issued.

Orders In Council - Search

Orders In Council - Search

orders-in-council.canada.ca

Orders In Council - Search

Orders In Council - Search

orders-in-council.canada.ca

 

[suffolkowner]

I can se that being a dangerous game for the LPC. Getting voted out for a CPC majority, then using unelected LPC senators to prevent the elected government from doing what they promise could backfire in a bad way.

Bad for Canada as a whole, not just bad for the LPC... Hopefully the "independent" senators are smart enough to see that, and limit themselves to attempting to prevent the cuts from going too deep.

I think there is a strong case for an English CBC, that focuses on markets where there is no business case for private media. CBC relatively recently brought back Compass, the local PEI nightly TV news. It covers things that mater is Islanders, but not necessarily Canadians in general. There is value in that sort of a public broadcaster, rather than the bloated news/culture/entertainment behemoth we have now.

i think that theres still a role for the CBC. Im not sure theres a need for it to compete with the private sector though. Were a long way away from our 3 or 4 channel past

On the principle of “it’s the economy, stupid!”, I think the imminent CPC government will focus its early efforts on consolidating the executive branch and getting policy in play to placate the Americans.

Canada’s single biggest ‘right now’ challenge is what seems about to happen with tariffs; they’re being wielded clumsily to club us into line on some policy choices, but in the short term some degree of acquiescence is both unavoidable and necessary. A lot of this will probably mostly be continuing things the LPC have already put in play regarding a refocus of law enforcement and intelligence on border issues. There will also probably be a full court press to work diplomacy with governors and congresscritters whose states or districts are economically vulnerable to retaliatory tariffs from our end.

Domestically, an aggressive and expansive, yet realistic defense white paper is called for. The envisioned growth of CAF necessitates it. Poillievre might be super skittish about committing to the type of defence spending that’s in order, but he’s painted into that corner whether he likes it or not. It’s a big part of what he’s inheriting, and he won’t be able to blame anyone else if he fails to step up. He’ll have a four year mandate, so he can punt things like housing for now. He may have to. Paying for defense and security will not be easy or fun.

Poillievre is going to be hitting the ground having to run. He has never governed before, nor has most of his current party apparatus. I don’t think fast legislation will necessarily be the order of the day.

America has to be a number one priority. They could spend some time getting Ford/Ontario to smarten up on the housing file

 

[brihard]

@Remius and @Furniture

What about an OIC ? This seems to be the way around our troublesome processes.

Honest question as I don't know how they work or their arcs of fire

An OIC simply means “a regulation”. It’s a rule issued by the Governor General in Council on the advice of the government. Such a rule must be empowered by legislation passed by Parliament.

For example: a few years back the government passed legislation reforming criminal laws for impaired driving. Part of that new law is that police can charge drivers who have a blood drug concentration above a certain threshold. Rather than coding into law a single value like the 80mg alcohol / 100ml of blood, since there are so many different drugs and the science is still developing, the legislation established a law that the blood drug concentrations could be established by regulations. So, the GG approves a regulation for the blood drug concentration of cocaine, and that’s now enforceable law. But without the enabling legislation in place, it means nothing.

 

[dimsum]

. It’s a big part of what he’s inheriting, and he won’t be able to blame anyone else if he fails to step up.

Based on his entire political career, I’m not confident that he wouldn’t try.

He’ll have a four year mandate, so he can punt things like housing for now. He may have to. Paying for defense and security will not be easy or fun.

And I will be listening to how he sells it to Canadians in 2028.

 

[OldSolduer]

There is, however, only one party of Rhinos.

Which I would like to see resurrected, as it was the MOST honest party.

 

[Furniture]

So you weren't trolling in your recent unhinged posts about Trudeau and his children that the mods here saw fit to remove? That was serious? Shit dude...

There is a bit of a legitimate point to be made about an unpopular politician hiding from criticism behind his kids.

If Trudeau was actually worried about his kids encountering angry voters, he would have vacationed elsewhere... He chose a small ski resort in Canada, where he would be found quite easily by the people opposed to him.

I half expect he staged the encounter to generate sympathy... "Poor Trudeau, won't the mean Conservatives let him have a ski trip with his kids?"

Followed immediately by:
"You know, I find PP's face "punchable", not that I'd say that normally, because that's encouraging "right wing" extremists to get violent..."