Whither the Royal Canadian Legion? Or RCL Withers?

[rmc_wannabe]

I think the point is something we all have complained about. The the legion is no longer run by veterans for veterans in many regions. Instead it's people who's uncles etc... served and then make the decisions for the organization to serve vets. Is this a blanket statement that isn't 100% accurate? Sure but the legion is dying a slow death because it is out of touch with the modern vet/service member who are refusing to join because they are looked down upon and ostracized by the old guard in many legions.

Bingo.

I live in a Garrison City and will not set foot in any of our Legions out of principle. When you pay dues, try to access services, and are treated as someone imposing on Bill and Doug's racist/sexist tirade by asking for the dart board to be unlocked... you know the score.

A lot of folks in the Afghan War cohort have worked hard accessing mental health support, peer support, and eschewing traditional coping mechanisms ("drink until we forget the war..."). The RCL does not cater to that goal in its current form.

Dominion and Regional Commands may talk a good game, but individual branches are very much ruled and roosted by folks, some with zero connection to the military, who just want more folks to buy meat draw tickets and bring up declining bar sales.

 

[Kilted]

I think that it is important to remember that the Legions main roll is (taken from their website):

The Royal Canadian Legion​

When was the Legion founded?
What does the Legion do?
The Legion’s core mission revolves around supporting our Veterans, their families and our communities. Read more here:

You don't need to have military service to do that. The Legion was formed when a considerable percentage of the population had military service. Fast forward two decades after WWII and that number increases. Even if everyone who had served/ is serving joined the Legion today, it would still be no where near that number and the Legions probably still couldn't run with only veterans. That being said, just because someone didn't serve, doesn't mean that they can't be of service.


It is true that some branches are badly run. The upper echelons of the Legion should have a tighter grip on them.

That being said, if everyone who complained about the Legion actually got a Legion membership, attended the meetings and voted the individuals responsible for some of the issues, I think that it would do wonders.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

I think that it is important to remember that the Legions main roll is (taken from their website):

The Royal Canadian Legion​

When was the Legion founded?
What does the Legion do?
The Legion’s core mission revolves around supporting our Veterans, their families and our communities. Read more here:

You don't need to have military service to do that. The Legion was formed when a considerable percentage of the population had military service. Fast forward two decades after WWII and that number increases. Even if everyone who had served/ is serving joined the Legion today, it would still be no where near that number and the Legions probably still couldn't run with only veterans. That being said, just because someone didn't serve, doesn't mean that they can't be of service.


It is true that some branches are badly run. The upper echelons of the Legion should have a tighter grip on them.

That being said, if everyone who complained about the Legion actually got a Legion membership, attended the meetings and voted the individuals responsible for some of the issues, I think that it would do wonders.

I agree in principle, but practice is another thing all together.

I joined a legion. I paid dues. I attended meetings. I was treated as an outlier for the year I was a member because I was under 30, but had more operational experience than anyone on the executive.

"Oh its OK. You'll understand how things work sooner or later..." was the response I received.

So I let the membership lapse. I haven't returned. I have no desire to put effort into an organization that lacks the desire to change.

So yes, be part of the solution. Gotcha. But until there is a paradigm shift in practicing what they're promoting at the Branch level... count me out.

 

[daftandbarmy]

I agree in principle, but practice is another thing all together.

I joined a legion. I paid dues. I attended meetings. I was treated as an outlier for the year I was a member because I was under 30, but had more operational experience than anyone on the executive.

"Oh its OK. You'll understand how things work sooner or later..." was the response I received.

So I let the membership lapse. I haven't returned. I have no desire to put effort into an organization that lacks the desire to change.

So yes, be part of the solution. Gotcha. But until there is a paradigm shift in practicing what they're promoting at the Branch level... count me out.

I was once 'sworn' in to a Legion where - astonishingly - they wanted us to recite something that sounded like it came directly from the Orange Order's Operating Manual.

Having previously been engaged in wars fuelled by such bigotry, I declined to participate of course.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

but had more operational experience than anyone on the executive.

Yea,....and??

So yes, be part of the solution. Gotcha. But until there is a paradigm shift in practicing what they're promoting at the Branch level... count me out.

And that would be acknowledging that you have more operational experience then anyone on the executive?

That being said, if everyone who complained about the Legion actually got a Legion membership, attended the meetings and voted the individuals responsible for some of the issues, I think that it would do wonders.

Most walk in only when they need license plates and/or VAC forms. Maybe some branches totally suck, and I've been lucky [belonged to 3 different], but one can only speak from their experience and/or expectations.

 

[Blackadder1916]

Another thing that I think is important to mention is that in many communities the larger parade is on Remembrance Sunday with a scaled down version on the 11th.

Remembrance Sunday? While I'm familiar with the UK's commemorative days (Armistice Day and Remembrance Sunday), I've never heard of the term (or the practice of separate events) being used in Canada. Can you provide examples of any communities that do so?

 

[rmc_wannabe]

Yea,....and??

Fair point. Wasn't trying to beat my chest in the meeting, it was in reference to being asked "why aren't your mates coming down here too?" Which leads me to this:

And that would be acknowledging that you have more operational experience then anyone on the executive?

Not at all. I feel you may have missed my point or that I should have elaborated further.

When asked how to bring up membership, I offered the suggestion that the branch work with the many lodger units on our base to develop in roads and see what and where we can provide to help those not only currently serving, but those who were on their way out. I even said I would do the leg work and reach out to my contacts at these units.

I was promptly informed that the Branch Liaison Officer was busy enough and that they had already handed flyers to the Base PAO for distribution. Still no membership. So they would wait for folks to come to them.

So I stopped offering suggestions. They were happy sticking with the status quo and not

Most walk in only when they need license plates and/or VAC forms. Maybe some branches totally suck, and I've been lucky [belonged to 3 different], but one can only speak from their experience and/or expectations.

Your personal experience, like mine, highlights the dichotomy of the RCL and its relationship with service folks. Some folk nare looking to get theirs and that's it. Some folks want to help in their community. Some folks just want a safe consumption site.

In the end, it wasn't for me and I did what I could with my limited time and effort.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

That being said, if everyone who complained about the Legion actually got a Legion membership, attended the meetings and voted the individuals responsible for some of the issues, I think that it would do wonders.

I watch it dwindle for 37 years. Every year more civies. Every year, my vote became less and less important. They had an opportunity in 2001 to start drawing new Veterans. For 14 years they failed miserably, they didn't even try. Perhaps they feared that if enough new Veterans joined, the civilians would start losing power and ignored us? Who knows what they think. Anyway, when they failed to really and honestly make an effort, it sounded their death knell. Things like coming against cannabis treatment for Veterans. Right or wrong, there was no research offered. Just a 'Don't do it!' Maybe they forecasted the loss of drinking revenue and would rather see us drunk in the corner of their hovels than getting better. Again, who knows. The civilian Dominion Executive started burning through money on a myriad of international trips, with their spouses, ostensibly to support Canadian branches in foreign countries . They have other problems that further exacerbate the situation. The Poppy Fund is not being used for what it was intended. The only way to make it work anymore is to burn it down and start again.

 

[Kilted]

Remembrance Sunday? While I'm familiar with the UK's commemorative days (Armistice Day and Remembrance Sunday), I've never heard of the term (or the practice of separate events) being used in Canada. Can you provide examples of any communities that do so?

Most of the communities around me do it. (No, I'm not going to say where I am). I think my regiment was probably present for at least 12-15 Remembrance services. I personally did four parades myself. I know some individuals will have done 5 by the time this is over. We don't put cenotaph guards out for all of them, but for many of them. Two years before COVID we started sending out roaming cenotaph guards to hit all the small cenotaphs in our Regimental area who do not normally have services associated with them. COVID seems to have stopped that. Although, in 2020, the cenotaph guard would go out the day before the reduced services to have their pictures taken that would then be post on Remembrance Day.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Fair point. Wasn't trying to beat my chest in the meeting, it was in reference to being asked "why aren't your mates coming down here too?" Which leads me to this:

Not at all. I feel you may have missed my point or that I should have elaborated further.

When asked how to bring up membership, I offered the suggestion that the branch work with the many lodger units on our base to develop in roads and see what and where we can provide to help those not only currently serving, but those who were on their way out. I even said I would do the leg work and reach out to my contacts at these units.

I was promptly informed that the Branch Liaison Officer was busy enough and that they had already handed flyers to the Base PAO for distribution. Still no membership. So they would wait for folks to come to them.

So I stopped offering suggestions. They were happy sticking with the status quo and not

Your personal experience, like mine, highlights the dichotomy of the RCL and its relationship with service folks. Some folk nare looking to get theirs and that's it. Some folks want to help in their community. Some folks just want a safe consumption site.

In my mind there is already tons of "help" [in various forms] for those still serving. In my mind the legion is the place to go for those NOT serving anymore.

Lets see if I can walk into the MFRC in Pet and get any help, I'd probably get told the VAC rep comes to your Guelph Legion every Thursday.


EDIT: or even quicker, and surely unlike decades ago, I can go online and find out on social media platforms. Like this one....

 

[rmc_wannabe]

In my mind there is already tons of "help" [in various forms] for those still serving. In my mind the legion is the place to go for those NOT serving anymore.

Chicken and egg scenario. Those still serving are the folks that eventually won't be serving. Do you expect people to run from their release appointment to their nearest branch if they have had no prior exposure to the RCL apart from Remembrance Day?

Lets see if I can walk into the MFRC in Pet and get any help, I'd probably get told the VAC rep comes to your Guelph Legion every Thursday.

I'm sure you can and will be treated with a far more welcoming, customer service minded, attitude than some have experienced with the RCL.

I understand your position is pretty entrenched, so I think it's best we agree to disagree on this one.

 

[Jarnhamar]

I agree in principle, but practice is another thing all together.

I joined a legion. I paid dues. I attended meetings. I was treated as an outlier for the year I was a member because I was under 30, but had more operational experience than anyone on the executive.

"Oh its OK. You'll understand how things work sooner or later..." was the response I received.

So I let the membership lapse. I haven't returned. I have no desire to put effort into an organization that lacks the desire to change.

So yes, be part of the solution. Gotcha. But until there is a paradigm shift in practicing what they're promoting at the Branch level... count me out.

I think an old granny whose only "experience" is organizing bake sales, fundraisers, and keeping track of the canteen has more viable operational experience working in the Legion than you and I with our overseas tours.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

I think an old granny whose only "experience" is organizing bake sales, fundraisers, and keeping track of the canteen has more viable operational experience working in the Legion than you and I with our overseas tours.

And makes better date squares...

 

[rmc_wannabe]

I think an old granny whose only "experience" is organizing bake sales, fundraisers, and keeping track of the canteen has more viable operational experience working in the Legion than you and I with our overseas tours.

Not denying that. I have an immense respect for individuals within the RCL who have given herculean efforts over the years to support that organization.

My operational experience was only in reference to being asked "You're one of the new Afghan Vets we're trying to attract, why aren't you and you buddies coming to the bridge tournament?"

 

[rmc_wannabe]

And makes better date squares...

You leave my baking skills out of this... I make a hell of a lemon square for the record

 

[Jarnhamar]

Not denying that. I have an immense respect for individuals within the RCL who have given herculean efforts over the years to support that organization.

My operational experience was only in reference to being asked "You're one of the new Afghan Vets we're trying to attract, why aren't you and you buddies coming to the bridge tournament?"

100% hear you there my friend. Similar to mess functions, they want $$ and asses in seats.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Dominion and Regional Commands may talk a good game, but individual branches are very much ruled and roosted by folks, some with zero connection to the military, who just want more folks to buy meat draw tickets and bring up declining bar sales.

It's the locals that pays the bills and sees the cash inflow and outflow. If you want the place to be successful, then you damm well better have someone paying attention to it. All 3 of our local legions gave about $2000 each a year to our Cadet program, which means together they give Cadets about $24,000 just to the combined Cadet programs. They also run the poppy drive, organize the Nov 11th cermony, paying part the costs, getting permits, etc. I don't know how much they do for veterans and I know they ain't perfect. But from someone who runs a Cadet program, often the Legions have been the difference that allowed the Cadet programs to survive. the Legions cater to the people that come through the doors, volunteer and do all of the extra stuff. Can they do better, sure. But any organization gets 90% done by 10% of the people, with 30% bitching about how they do it better and the rest keeping their mouth shut because they don't want or can't get involved.

 

[Navy_Pete]

I think the RCL itself will naturally die out with the Boomer generation, as that seems to be the bulk of the membership.

Can't complain about the local Legion putting on a good service, but still really strange to me that they had multiple public appeals for selling poppies locally but never got back to the Cadet corps literally across the street that was trying to volunteer, so guessing it was some kind of comms mixup and the right people never spoke.

Still, they are basically a legacy veterans organization, and shouldn't be consulted by the GoC for currently serving members or modern veterans. I don't think there is a single organization that is a good alternate, but there are probably a wide variety of veteran organizations that would be more appropriate to discuss things with. I think they have generally good intentions, but they can't be in touch with what people are going through now when they are so out of synch with anyone under 50.

Also, the military ombudsman should be a conduit for things impacting current members or newly released ones, but they really need to be independent of MND first.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Do you know their personal service histories? If not what is your point?

I'll take a stab at it; the bar that defines the 'term' veteran in Canada is way too high and makes too easy to limbo under.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

That’s a local branch trying to keep itself alive with local business sponsorships. I saw the same thing when I was living in a smaller town with a local branch run ceremony. Bob’s Auto Glass buys an over priced wreath, they get their name read out loud along with all the other donors. It’s unfortunate that that’s how a lot of ceremonies are going. Also a sad reality of trying to keep community service clubs going.

I was appauled listening to it..."on behalf of Slippy's Tire Center"....meanwhile, I was looking at the cenotaph wondering "when was the last time those names were read during your service".

I’m not defending it, just sharing the observation.

The invitation for vets/members to come place poppies would be a really good suggestion. If limited during the ceremony to those individuals, it shouldn’t take long. I’ve seen it done before.

It would be a tangible signal of the Legion acknowledging all vets, retired and still serving....but let's hear more about Skippy's Tire Center...

The 'service' in my hometown is one of the worst I've ever attended. It was hard to stay for the entire thing and I only did because I was there with Dad. He thought it was equally as bad.