What's Wrong with University Campuses Today?

[48Highlander]

Well, considering Ms Corrie was killed underquestionable circumstances in Gaza, we could grant that at least she was willing to put her life on the line for her beliefs.

    Doubtful.  Do you really think she would have behaved the same way if she had any indication that she'd be killed?

I don't wish to reduce this to semantics, but the "we" and "you" distinction can simply represent a differention between a person supporting one cause and another person opposing it; I see no reason to assume that this ensures a difference in nationality...

    Who cares.  Her nationality doesn't matter.  If she really wants to kill Americans, she should either be deported or locked up.  If she's just being an idiot but really beleives that strongly that the US is evil, she should leave of her own accord.  I'm not seing why you think that saying "these people" should leave the country is racist.  And I'm wondering why you're making an issue of that statement instead of the one uttered by her.

Her loyalties could be based on the American support of Israel...though I insist we do not reduce this to a futile battle over the deeply rooted Israeli / Palestinian issue, one must recognize that, if she is Palestinian as you suggest, she must have some connection to the fate of her peoples who are dying everyday in Israel...

    Hey here's an idea.  If she doesn't want her people "dying everyday in Israel", maybe she should tell them to stop blowing themselves up in Israel.  That would probably work a lot better than threatening to kill Americans.

 

[Infanteer]

I don't wish to reduce this to semantics, but the "we" and "you" distinction can simply represent a differention between a person supporting one cause and another person opposing it; I see no reason to assume that this ensures a difference in nationality...

True, but the fact that she followed up with a statement involving self-immolation and Americans only served to further my suspicions.

Her loyalties could be based on the American support of Israel...though I insist we do not reduce this to a futile battle over the deeply rooted Israeli / Palestinian issue, one must recognize that, if she is Palestinian as you suggest, she must have some connection to the fate of her peoples who are dying everyday in Israel...

...and the fact that she is enjoying the fruits of America's toil, which, according to her beliefs, would be founded upon the back of her people, exposes her for the cause-seeking hypocrite that she is....

 

[canadianblue]

Futuretrooper, this statement is so racially loaded I'm not sure whether to address it or hope that you had a momentary lapse (and not that your hood fell over your eyes while typing...).  Who are "those people" and where do you suggest they move back to? 

I was talking about the people that praise terrorists, and praise any person who tries to kill innocent people, and uses terror to get a point across. That goes for any radical, if they are supporting any form of terrorism than I don't think they should be welcome into this country. If I were to say that I would support any person that would kill off as many Albertan's as possible, however I take advantage of the standard of living in Alberta, and am living and getting an education in Alberta, than that does'nt really seem right does it. I thought the same thing about the people at Concordia that were spitting on jew's and anybody that did'nt agree with their point of view. Why do we really want  people like that in are country.

PS: It's not a racially motivated statement, I'm against all forms of hatred. However I don't believe that its right to allow some hatred, and dissaprove of other hatred.

 

[Glorified Ape]

First off, I don't see how Concordia "allowed" the riot to take place, as someone claimed. A protest turned into a riot - protest supervision is the job of the police, not part-time security guards and university staff. What were they supposed to do - disperse the riot with 20 unarmed security guards? That's the job of the cops, which they did after things went riotous.

Secondly, I don't understand the whole "get out in the real world and you'll see otherwise" argument always tossed at anyone associated with academia. I worked for years before I went to university and I can't say I gleaned a better understanding of issues in global politics or opinion dynamics because I was employed - quite the opposite. I find people far more myopic, intolerant, and ignorant outside universities than within them.

 

[Torlyn]

First off, I don't see how Concordia "allowed" the riot to take place, as someone claimed. A protest turned into a riot - protest supervision is the job of the police, not part-time security guards and university staff. What were they supposed to do - disperse the riot with 20 unarmed security guards? That's the job of the cops, which they did after things went riotous.

Perhaps you should have tried reading the article.  There were 13 cops there from the get go.  And they were armed.  Also, the part that people are having an issue with is "SFSU President Robert Corrigan took no action against the GUPS or individual students involved in Monday's assault despite police eye-witnesses and even photographs of the perpetrators."  Kinda tough to continue to defend Concordia after their refusal to do anything about it after the fact, don't you think?

As for myopic, intolerant and ingorant(!) people, you'll find them both in, and outside the universities, generally in equal numbers.  It's heart-warming to see that you've both done the real world experience and the university thing (as I have) and yet still didn't take the time to fully read the article, and yet bash people who didn't go to university for being ignorant...  Interesting.  Very interesting.  :

T

 

[Bograt]

Torlyn,

Unless you are living in some kind of "Ground Hog Day" reality, there is nothing you will be able to say that will change some people's position. Pick the fights that are worth winning. The trick is deciding which ones are worth fighting. This one isn't one of them.

 

[Torlyn]

Torlyn,

Unless you are living in some kind of "Ground Hog Day" reality, there is nothing you will be able to say that will change some people's position. Pick the fights that are worth winning. The trick is deciding which ones are worth fighting. This one isn't one of them.

What's wrong with Ground Hog Day reality?    Sigh...  True enough.  Gonna have to hammer that in to my head.  "pickyourbattlespickyourbattles"  ;D  (hey, over 200 posts..  yay!)

T

 

[CivU]

"Hey here's an idea.  If she doesn't want her people "dying everyday in Israel", maybe she should tell them to stop blowing themselves up in Israel.  That would probably work a lot better than threatening to kill Americans."

This is an oversimplification of the Israel/Palestine issue to the most extreme.  Do you not question why Palestinians are blowing themselves up routinely? If you suggest its simply another example of the token "Extremist Islam" catchphrase that comes up more often on these boards than Michael Moore bashing, then you are certainly missing the big picture...

 

[meni0n]

Btw, Concrodia still hasn't removed the off-limit for military personnel rule. It's still a military-free zone.

 

[Bograt]

Tell me CivU, what else am I missing?

Type whatever you what, the internet has no consequences.

 

[CivU]

Bograt,

I don't follow? What did I say that suggested you are missing something? My last reply wasn't to a post you even made...

 

[Slim]

Bograt,

I don't follow? What did I say that suggested you are missing something? My last reply wasn't to a post you even made...

I think he means him as a soldier...

Slim

 

[Britney Spears]

Well, considering Ms Corrie was killed underquestionable circumstances in Gaza, we could grant that at least she was willing to put her life on the line for her beliefs.

Heh, I've nothing to contribute to the OP, but "questionable circumstances" is a bit of a conspiracy theory. Ms Corrie was hit by an Israeli D9 Bulldozer during a routine protest. Unless its one of those new recce bulldozers that snuck up behind her, it seems to me that Ms Corrie was more or less(a healthy dose of bad luck, certainly) responsible for her own death. This fact is also well documented with photographs and eye witness accounts  if anyone cares.

 

[Infanteer]

Heh, I've nothing to contribute to the OP, but "questionable circumstances" is a bit of a conspiracy theory. Ms Corrie was hit by an Israeli D9 Bulldozer during a routine protest. Unless its one of those new recce bulldozers that snuck up behind her, it seems to me that Ms Corrie was more or less(a healthy dose of bad luck, certainly) responsible for her own death. This fact is also well documented with photographs and eye witness accounts if anyone cares.

It's like the first Austin Powers movie where he runs over the guy with the packer at about 2 miles/hour....

 

[Slim]

I guess the Isreali army saw no reason to stop.

They follow different policies when dealing with protestors...But then we haven't had to put up with people blowing themselves up in crowded markets and on buses either.

Either way a D9 bulldozer moves at the speed of roughly a glacier...You can't say that she didn't see it coming...

Slim

 

[Britney Spears]

The blow by blow description seems to indicate the following:

Ms Corrie was attempting to make a placard or some such item visible to the driver of the D9, who is situated rather high off the ground, with only a limited field of vision through the vehicle's vision ports.

In trying to do so, Ms Corrie climbs on top of a pile of rubble directly in from the the dozer blade.

The dozer hits the pile of rubble which causes it to collapse, and Ms Corrie to fall, unfortunately straight into the blade.

The driver, seeing Ms Corrie fall, quickly puts the vehicle into reverse, in a vain attempt to avoid hitting her. Of course, this only brings the blade back over Ms. Corrie's body, dispelling any doubt as to her fate.

I blame the Palestininan range staff.

 

[Infanteer]

Well, here are a couple photos from the event.  If the driver wanted to deliberately murder protesters, why didn't he run over the other guy too?

As for the second picture, does it seem like she's really under assault from a deliberate attempt to kill her?

Looks to me like it's just another example of the gene pool self-chlorinating itself.

 

[48Highlander]

"Hey here's an idea.  If she doesn't want her people "dying everyday in Israel", maybe she should tell them to stop blowing themselves up in Israel.  That would probably work a lot better than threatening to kill Americans."

This is an oversimplification of the Israel/Palestine issue to the most extreme.  Do you not question why Palestinians are blowing themselves up routinely? If you suggest its simply another example of the token "Extremist Islam" catchphrase that comes up more often on these boards than Michael Moore bashing, then you are certainly missing the big picture...

No, it's not.  I wasn't commenting on the Israel/Palestine issue.  I was simply stating that if this individual doesn't want her people dying in Israel, she should tell them to stop going there in order to kill themselves.  Blaming Israel for the death of a succesfull suicide bomber is just a wee bit on the fanatical side don't you think?  Blame them for the deaths of Palestinian civilians in Palestine if you want, but those dying inside Israel chose their own fate.

If you really want to know why I think "Palestinians are blowing themselves up routinely" though, I'll tell you.  $25,000, martyrdom, 70 virgins, and vengence.  All of which are very good motivators for the individual bombers, and great recruiting tools for their leadership.  Our "Strong, Proud" commercials don't seem to be nearly as effective.  They're certainly not blowing themselves up out of a desire for peace.

I guess the Isreali army saw no reason to stop.
They follow different policies when dealing with protestors...But then we haven't had to put up with people blowing themselves up in crowded markets and on buses either.

No, they don't, especially towards American protestors.  They don't need the negative press any more than we do.  By all accounts, her death was an accident, largely of her own making.  If Israel DID have a policy of killing protestors, she would have never been there in the first place.  Little Rachel assumed that she could make an ass of herself without being in any real danger.  Unfortiunately for her, she didn't understand that playing tag with heavy machinery isn't a good idea even if the operator has no wish to harm you.

 

[McG]

Funny thing about heavy equipment is that the field of view can be much worse than you would expect (especially when you do things like add armour to the cab).

 

[CivU]

"Blame them for the deaths of Palestinian civilians in Palestine "

Palestine is Israel, they are one and the same in terms of physical geography.

"If you really want to know why I think "Palestinians are blowing themselves up routinely" though, I'll tell you.  $25,000, martyrdom, 70 virgins, and vengence.  All of which are very good motivators for the individual bombers, and great recruiting tools for their leadership"

Perhaps their homeland being taken from them and their being forced to live in deplorable, highly congested ghetto-ized areas is enough for a person to determine they have little to live for...?