Verification of Former Service (VFS) [Merged]

[chrisf]

Usually courses "expire" after 5 years out, so yes, more than likely.

 

[JasperC]

I have been trying to find the answer to this question and was wondering if anyone here can help me.  I am currently in the Navy reg force and enjoy being a sailor but do not like the trade I am in.  My issue is that my trade is so red I can't get out of it without finishing my contract and not resigning.  I don't really have a problem with that since it is only another year, but how long would I have to wait after I get out to go to the recruiting center and apply back in? 

 

[MJP]

I have been trying to find the answer to this question and was wondering if anyone here can help me.  I am currently in the Navy reg force and enjoy being a sailor but do not like the trade I am in.  My issue is that my trade is so red I can't get out of it without finishing my contract and not resigning.  I don't really have a problem with that since it is only another year, but how long would I have to wait after I get out to go to the recruiting center and apply back in?

Unless things have changed I don't think you have to wait at all to re-apply.  I have seen more than a few people unhappy with their trade or location but unable to OT or get posted release and then re-enroll right away.  The big problem right now for you is that the CF has drastically cut back on recruitment and you could be in for a lengthy wait to get back in.  All the folks I knew that went that route did it when we were hurting for people so had minimal delays in rejoining.

 

[Flips13]

I have been trying to find the answer to this question and was wondering if anyone here can help me.  I am currently in the Navy reg force and enjoy being a sailor but do not like the trade I am in.  My issue is that my trade is so red I can't get out of it without finishing my contract and not resigning.  I don't really have a problem with that since it is only another year, but how long would I have to wait after I get out to go to the recruiting center and apply back in?

I tried that in '09 from the reg and it's now '11, so now i'm trying a new approach by ct/ot'ing, i don't know which way is slower but after 2 years i figure i would go into the reserves and try the CT/OT. That is where i stand now.

 

[Silverfire]

I released out of the CF six months ago due to family issues and I was at my CFRC to reenlist.  It was previously stated that a recruiting freeze would occur for 6 months before being eligible for reenlistment.  CFRC has stated that on 08 APR 11 a directive was sent saying that the freeze has now become 24 months.  If there are any recruiters or MCC's around, is this applicable to only Reg Force or does it apply to PRes as well? My CFRC has provided conflicting answers.

Thanks

 

[George Wallace]

When it comes to the Reserves, you will have to contact the Reserve unit to find out if they are affected by the "freeze" or not.  Some are still recruiting, others are not.  The Reserves have reached the same level as the Regular Force, where they have more applicants than positions.  Where the CFRC will recruit for the whole Regular Force, each Reserve unit is responsible for their own recruiting, although all processing is done by the CFRC.  The CFRC will not process you for a Reserve unit until they get the approval from that Reserve unit.

 

[Silverfire]

Thanks for the reply, just for curiosity sake, is the freeze on my file more of a budgetary concern or is a policy thing?

What I mean to say is, is there any official rule saying that you must wait x amount of months before being eligible for reenrollment or is it a budgetary thing where CFRC has been told, "If they released within the last 24 months, don't bother, we want fresh meat."  Assuming the PRes unit I contact is hiring, will they also say, "You released 6 months ago, sorry, wait another year and a half" or will they still process me?  I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that no one will know the answer except for the unit themselves, but I figure any MCC's or people working at a CFRC might know the answer. 


If the Reg Force won't accept me for 24 months (17 left to go ), I'll gladly work under PRes if thats an option.

 

[AdamMullis]

Ive release under 4C, anyone else here too? and  playing the waiting game.

 

[M_M]

Ive release under 4C, anyone else here too? and  playing the waiting game.

I released under 4C as well.... but due to being an officer, no waiting required. They know that voluntary trade transfers are not easy to get and are pretty much expecting us to get out and come back in off the street for the trade we tried to VOR to. 

On the release SOU, article 11 there was some mention of "implications" of re-enrolling within 60 days of release. I asked the release section but they had no clue. Anyone have any idea what that might be referring to?

 

[SeaKingTacco]

I released under 4C as well.... but due to being an officer, no waiting required. They know that voluntary trade transfers are not easy to get and are pretty much expecting us to get out and come back in off the street for the trade we tried to VOR to. 

On the release SOU, article 11 there was some mention of "implications" of re-enrolling within 60 days of release. I asked the release section but they had no clue. Anyone have any idea what that might be referring to?

So...you...are...gaming the system?  ???

 

[AmmoTech90]

I released under 4C as well.... but due to being an officer, no waiting required. They know that voluntary trade transfers are not easy to get and are pretty much expecting us to get out and come back in off the street for the trade we tried to VOR to. 

Given para 8

8.      DESIRES RE-ENROLMENT TO PREVIOUS OCCUPATION

How does this CANFORGEN help someone trying to do what you are?

 

[M_M]

So...you...are...gaming the system?  ???

I'm really not sure what you mean by "gaming the system" ...

There isn't as great of a system in place for an officer to change trades as there are for people in the ranks. The recruiter for the trade I want actually TOLD me, that this was what I had to do. There was simply no other way. This is actually common practice for officers who want to switch trades but are repeatedly denied.

How does this CANFORGEN help someone trying to do what you are?

In previous years, there were some stories of people having start over from 2Lt again. Recently people are getting their old rank and pay grades back. It's not written explicitly in THIS CANFORGEN.

I was trying to help buddy out in case he didn't know he didn't have to wait and asking a question about the "implications" stated in para 11 of SOU upon release and figured other people getting back in might know. Instead of answers you guys are giving me a hard time. Sheesh...

 

[SeaKingTacco]

I'm not giving you a hard time.

I am genuinely trying to figure out what you are trying to do.  You don't have to answer if you think it would give away too much info, but I am curious what stage of your career are you currently in (ie are you still untrained, or have you become occupationally qualified in your current occupation?) and if obligatory service is a player in your scenario.

I am also curious why you have been denied a VOT.  Is your current occupation distressed?  Is your target occupation overborne?  Are you absolutely certain you qualify (medically, academically) for your target occupation?

Finally, I have big question marks about who would give you such advice.  Admittedly, I am working with only posts on the internet, but you are taking a big risk IMHO by releasing- there is no guarantee you will be allowed back in the CF.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I released under 4C as well.... but due to being an officer, no waiting required. They know that voluntary trade transfers are not easy to get and are pretty much expecting us to get out and come back in off the street for the trade we tried to VOR to. 

On the release SOU, article 11 there was some mention of "implications" of re-enrolling within 60 days of release. I asked the release section but they had no clue. Anyone have any idea what that might be referring to?

I thought he was out already, and re-entering....and that was because he was not able to change MOCs within the OVOTP??

 

[Eye In The Sky]

There isn't as great of a system in place for an officer to change trades as there are for people in the ranks.

I'm pretty familiar in the NCM OT processes (MOC Reassignment, COT, VOT) and programs (COTP, AVOTP, LOTP, and recently SVOTP) and requirements

- MOC Reassignment if you are not QL3 qual'd,
- LOTP if Combat Arms with 36 months service and QL4 qual'd (QL3 qual'd if no QL4 in MOC)
- COTP & AVOTP if you have 48 months of service and QL4 qual (QL3 if no QL4 in MOC)

Of course NCMs also have to meet medical/CFAT/etc requirements for the trade you wish to move to.

Aside from the fact there are less #s of OVOTPs because there are less #s of Officers than NCMs, what are the differences that make the OVOTP "not a great system" compared to the NCM side?

 

[M_M]

I'm pretty familiar in the NCM OT processes (MOC Reassignment, COT, VOT) and programs (COTP, AVOTP, LOTP, and recently SVOTP) and requirements

- MOC Reassignment if you are not QL3 qual'd,
- LOTP if Combat Arms with 36 months service and QL4 qual'd (QL3 qual'd if no QL4 in MOC)
- COTP & AVOTP if you have 48 months of service and QL4 qual (QL3 if no QL4 in MOC)

Of course NCMs also have to meet medical/CFAT/etc requirements for the trade you wish to move to.

Aside from the fact there are less #s of OVOTPs because there are less #s of Officers than NCMs, what are the differences that make the OVOTP "not a great system" compared to the NCM side?

We don't have all of those options you listed above - there is only one type of VOT. Further, career managers often give you a hard time if your trade is yellow or just came out of being yellow.  There are also some training plans that you can try for such as med/dent/chaplain/pharm/physio which is also open to the rest of the CF. Career managers, again can step in and say "no". There have been instances where aircrew members have been told while trying to apply that regardless of whether they get selected: they are not allowed to go. 

I thought he was out already, and re-entering....and that was because he was not able to change MOCs within the OVOTP??

Yes, I am already out. The longer you stay in your current trade, the more cause they have to hold you longer in your trade and refuse your VOR because of your skill sets. I know a guy who spent 10 years in the Navy submitting a VOR EVERY SINGLE YEAR for an open air force trade he wanted and was refused. Eventually he got fed up, released and signed back in under the trade he wanted.

I don't want to turn this into "unrelated-to-post" story time here, if you have more questions, please PM me.   

 

[aesop081]

Officer or NCM , it does not matter, the CoC does not have the authority to refuse an OT once a member has been selected. If the trade is not red, the career manager does not have the authority to refuse the OT.

 

[captloadie]

Although true the CoC cannot refuse once the member is accepted, they can go a long way in making sure the member is deemed unsuitable for the plan they are requesting. The CM, even in a green MOSID, has a number he can let OT, and being accepted doesn't necessarily mean you make the cut.

That being said, I personally don't know many officers that VOT after reaching the Capt rank, unless they are going into a specialty trade (MO, Legad, Dental, maybe HCA).

 

[M_M]

Although true the CoC cannot refuse once the member is accepted, they can go a long way in making sure the member is deemed unsuitable for the plan they are requesting.

That's exactly the problem. They can write horrible references or give you horrible PERs for the next session.

That being said, I personally don't know many officers that VOT after reaching the Capt rank, unless they are going into a specialty trade (MO, Legad, Dental, maybe HCA).

Some people just never liked the trade they go to begin with, or didn't like it after they got on phase training, or don't like the lifestyle of certain trades after they get married/start a family. The guy I was talking about released as an Lt (N) because he hated the Navy so much and got back in as an air force officer. 

Officer or NCM , it does not matter, the CoC does not have the authority to refuse an OT once a member has been selected. If the trade is not red, the career manager does not have the authority to refuse the OT.

Have you met/dealt the aircrew CMs? They rarely approve anything that would involve a trained pilot/nav leaving their trade forever, save for compassionate reasons.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Just a small point, but even RED trades are not 'closed'.  0.5% of the TES is the OUTCAP for red, 1% for amber, 2% for green.  For NCM atleast, I've never read up on the Officer side of the house.

I am sure that CM's aren't drawing much attention to that in their Briefings though...