US Presidential Election 2020

[dimsum]

I lasted a few mins and couldn't take it anymore. 

 

[mariomike]

I could only handle a few minutes of the sh%t show. Switched to Sons of Anarchy.

 

[Remius]

A lot to digest.

I don’t think Biden was awesome.  He had a few moments.

Trump was off the rails. 

Wallace lost control of that. 

I’m sure there will be plenty of analysis for some time to come.

 

[dimsum]

Here's a good, concise analysis.  :rofl:

https://twitter.com/HayesBrown/status/1311137088973295623

 

[Remius]

Here's a good, concise analysis.  :rofl:

https://twitter.com/HayesBrown/status/1311137088973295623

Yup.

 

[midget-boyd91]

While all these companies are offering to sell services ad-free by paying to subscribe... I would have paid money to have had a commercial break thrown in there.

90 minutes of a career bully putting on a show directly for (and only for) the people who show up to his rallies or worship him  VS a tired old man (although I admit he held his own and I would have been exhausted myself after the first few minutes) trying to talk directly to normal people at home while the 'moderator' fails to keep the schoolyard bully from yelling over him in an attempt to make him seem senile.

 

[dimsum]

90 minutes of a career bully putting on a show directly for (and only for) the people who show up to his rallies or worship him  VS a tired old man (although I admit he held his own and I would have been exhausted myself after the first few minutes) trying to talk directly to normal people at home while the 'moderator' fails to keep the schoolyard bully from yelling over him in an attempt to make him seem senile.

I think that speaks to the stereotype of the loud, brash American.  In many parts of the world, not speaking all the time isn't a bad thing - it means you're taking the time to think about the answer instead of just blurting something out. 

 

[GR66]

I was (thankfully) working late so didn't get to witness the spectacle live, but did see the highlights (lowlights?) on the news, which is likely all that many/most US voters saw.

Personally I doubt if Trump's performance will have changed anyone's mind.  Everyone already knows what he's like and people have probably made their decisions about him long ago.  Biden's the one that needed to make an impression and give people a reason to go out and vote for him.  Unfortunately, from the clips that were played on the news it shows him on a similar vein as Trump.  Especially the "Will you shut up, man?" clip. 

Trump haters (who were already likely to get out and vote for Biden) will certainly love hearing the President getting told off, but for the many semi-engaged people that may or not normally make the effort to get out and vote they might look at clips like this and think maybe there really isn't a huge difference between the way the two act and bluster and not bother picking either one.  That could possibly help President Trump in November.

 

[Remius]

I was (thankfully) working late so didn't get to witness the spectacle live, but did see the highlights (lowlights?) on the news, which is likely all that many/most US voters saw.

Personally I doubt if Trump's performance will have changed anyone's mind.  Everyone already knows what he's like and people have probably made their decisions about him long ago.  Biden's the one that needed to make an impression and give people a reason to go out and vote for him.  Unfortunately, from the clips that were played on the news it shows him on a similar vein as Trump.  Especially the "Will you shut up, man?" clip. 

Trump haters (who were already likely to get out and vote for Biden) will certainly love hearing the President getting told off, but for the many semi-engaged people that may or not normally make the effort to get out and vote they might look at clips like this and think maybe there really isn't a huge difference between the way the two act and bluster and not bother picking either one.  That could possibly help President Trump in November.

Biden did indeed do those things but nowhere near the same level.  I found him flat with a few good moments.

If Trump was trying to gain any share of the black vote or women’s vote I doubt he made any gains.  His strongest moment was on the SCOTUS appt. 

Telling the proud boys to stand back and stand by was probably the biggest self inflicted wound he did to himself.

I don’t think this will get Trump any gains, which in a tight race you need, but he won’t lose his current support.

 

[mariomike]

If a debate has a set time for answers (like 2 mins), why is the other candidate’s mic on during the time?

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Because the media doesn't want debate...zzzzzzzzzzzz...
.they want the arsehole moments.
Its like, for most people, watching NASCAR and all you really care about are the wrecks.

 

[dimsum]

Biden did indeed do those things but nowhere near the same level.  I found him flat with a few good moments.

If Trump was trying to gain any share of the black vote or women’s vote I doubt he made any gains.  His strongest moment was on the SCOTUS appt. 

Telling the proud boys to stand back and stand by was probably the biggest self inflicted wound he did to himself.

I don’t think this will get Trump any gains, which in a tight race you need, but he won’t lose his current support.

That definitely didn't make any gains, and probably more than a few losses in the (probably conflicted right now) visible minority communities that traditionally vote Republican. 

I don't even want to think how his supporters will spin that to mean anything other than he supports the Proud Boys and their beliefs.

 

[mariomike]

Telling the proud boys to stand back and stand by was probably the biggest self inflicted wound he did to himself.

That definitely didn't make any gains, and probably more than a few losses in the (probably conflicted right now) visible minority communities that traditionally vote Republican. 

I don't even want to think how his supporters will spin that to mean anything other than he supports the Proud Boys and their beliefs.

Apparently, "move to Canada" searches "skyrocketed" after the "debate". 
https://www.google.com/search?q=%22move+to+canada%22&sxsrf=ALeKk02iuMCFyBcxYRYxH4040u_MtMPOjg:1601666838167&source=lnt&tbs=qdr:m&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwidw7_30ZbsAhVEhOAKHSPKBCQQpwV6BAgVEB4&biw=1280&bih=641#spf=1601666844646

 

[Jarnhamar]

In Trumps defense he said he had no idea who the Proud Boys actually were.

 

 

[shawn5o]

I watched not even a minute but did catch Trump being an a******e and Biden calling trump a liar.

What is interesting is what happened after the debate.


On Wednesday morning, [Biden's] Twitter account posted a video attacking Trump for his response to the question.

The clip plays Wallace’s attempt to get Trump to denounce white supremacists and right-wing militias over footage from 2017’s Unite the Right rally and images from this year’s civil unrest.

As Wallace’s voice mentions Kenosha, an image of Kyle Rittenhouse flashes across the screen of Biden’s video.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1311268302950260737

Rittenhouse, a 17-year-old who’s accused of shooting three people — killing two — during the unrest in Kenosha, is now being charged with first-degree homicide, though he argues that he was acting in self-defense.

Members of the young man’s legal defense team quickly took action against Biden’s false characterization of Rittenhouse as a white supremacist, demanding a retraction from the former vice president.

L. Lin Wood, one attorney on the team, confirmed that a “formal demand for public retraction is being prepared for” the Biden campaign.

https://twitter.com/LLinWood/status/1311290152619307008


Article

 

[mariomike]

I watched not even a minute but did catch Trump being an a******e and Biden calling trump a liar.

< snip >

Rittenhouse, a 17-year-old who’s accused of shooting three people — killing two — during the unrest in Kenosha, is now being charged with first-degree homicide, though he argues that he was acting in self-defense.

Kyle was in the news today,

NBC

1 Oct., 2020

Internal document shows Trump officials were told to make comments sympathetic to Kyle Rittenhouse
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/internal-document-shows-trump-officials-were-told-make-comments-sympathetic-n1241581

WASHINGTON — Federal law enforcement officials were directed to make public comments sympathetic to Kyle Rittenhouse, the teenager charged with fatally shooting two protesters in Kenosha, Wisconsin, according to internal Department of Homeland Security talking points obtained by NBC News.

 

[shawn5o]

Kyle was in the news today,

Interesting but a few itiems presented can be debatable.

- It is unclear whether any of the talking points originated at the White House or within Homeland Security's own press office.

- Asked for comment, a spokesperson said Homeland Security "does not comment on alleged leaked documents."

The question is the source(s) legit? Or anonymous?

 

[a_majoor]

A British view on the debates. It is interesting to see their take on this, since their political system is quite different and they are obviously not as invested in this election as even we would be:

https://thecritic.co.uk/trump-is-waging-asymmetric-warfare-and-its-working/?fbclid=IwAR2-J3UVwKUtgh2dr_oNyEDPhJ5QvHqKa-OFEK_LGBz0n5oqMJDLkbgsVrY

Trump is waging asymmetric warfare – and it’s working
Biden came in for some rough treatment in the first presidential debate

ARTILLERY ROW
By Chris Buskirk
30 September, 2020

Teacher, help. The President is being mean to me.” That’s the rough translation of Joe Biden’s frequent, desperate appeals to moderator, Chris Wallace during last night’s debate with Donald Trump. The former Vice President came in for some rough treatment by the current leader of the free world.

From the starting shot, President Trump was on the front foot, peppering Biden with a flurry of verbal blows: taunts, accusations, barbed criticisms for Biden, declarations of sublime political skill, triumph against longs odds, and exemplary selflessness for himself. Biden didn’t know what hit him. But he should have. And so should have his advisers and debate coaches. This is Trump’s style.

Trump is a streetfighter waging asymmetric warfare against a traditional foe who is reviewing the rules of engagement and consulting the lawyers back at headquarters before doing anything. And all the while he’s getting pummelled. Idealists will say that it wasn’t very presidential, that they didn’t dig into policy and educate the American people, where was the dignity?

Welcome to electoral politics. It’s always been thus. Founding Father John Adams delighted in calling fellow Founder Alexander Hamilton, “the bastard brat of a Scotch peddler.” Adams himself came in for similar treatment during the election of 1800 when he was called an hermaphrodite reportedly at the behest of Thomas Jefferson.

We didn’t get any of that last night. But there’s another debate next week so keep your fingers crossed.

One of the most interesting and telling exchanges came about an hour into the debate. In some ways each man showed himself in his purest form. Joe Biden delivered what was very obviously a well-rehearsed, set-piece attack on President Trump. You could see the windup, like a boxer pulling his arm way back, fist clenched, preparing to deliver the knockout blow. Biden started by repeating the accusation that Trump disrespectfully criticises the military, calling them losers and suckers. The story has been debunked repeatedly by multiple sources including those hostile to the president like John Bolton. But it’s part of the Biden campaign’s strategy. So he levels the accusations and then begins to eulogise his son, Beau Biden, who served in Iraq, and later died of brain cancer. This makes it all personal to Joe, you see. He’s defending his dead son against a mythical slander from the bad orange man. Biden even points a finger at Trump, “My son is not a loser!”

Trauma mining to score points in a debate is a desperately cynical piece of political theatre. But, I suppose they calculate that if it works you get to be president. (I’ll pass, thanks.) It was pure Biden: scripted, saccharine, playing by the rules of a game that has long since ended. In case you think I’m too cynical, that surely this couldn’t have been orchestrated, Joe Biden’s official Twitter account posted a photo of Joe and Beau with the caption, “Beau was not a loser” just as the debate ended.

And just so, Trump. He looked at his podium and quietly, respectfully, asked, which son Biden was talking about. Of course, he knew, but he played the game forcing Biden to respond, Beau. “Oh, I don’t know him. I know Hunter.”

And then listed the accusations against Hunter: he took a $1.5 billion investment from China into the fledgling investment company he ran with John Kerry’s son while his father was Vice President and en route to China. He received $3.5 million from the mayor of Moscow. He had a sinecure from a Ukranian energy company while his father was Obama’s pointman on Ukraine policy. (NB: Hunter had no experience in business let along the energy business.) It was as sweet a move as I’ve ever seen. The knockout punch was coming with all the force Joe Biden could muster and Trump simply sidestepped it and counterpunched.

It was an impressive display of natural animal cunning. And it could make the difference in the election. Trump was agile, aggressive, and vigorous, taking what he wanted when he wanted it. This offends some people’s sensibilities. He’s transgressive. He doesn’t play according to the rules. But for others, that’s part of the appeal.

It’s no secret that the ruling class in America despises the country class. If you’re one of those people who don’t live in coastal cities and subscribe to the same worldview as the elite aspirants hoping for a job at a billionaire-backed NGO or an internship that might lead to a job at McKinsey then you’re a deplorable, a CHUD, and definitely racist and whatever bad things are happening to you, your family, and your inland town are your just deserts.

One of Trump’s main functions and biggest appeals is that he exposes the occupational elites that are credentialed but not expert in much of anything. Everyone knows it. Imposter syndrome is rampant. And Trump preys on their insecurities which is what provokes such outrageous reactions from his enemies. But a lot of Americans who live in interior America and get unglamorous jobs at slowly declining wages, raise their families want nothing more than to be left alone by the credentialed but unaccomplished strivers who hate them. For those people, Trump is their champion.

And that is what most people simply don't seem to get - Americans are not interested in being dictated to, spoken down to or coerced for any reason - well intentioned or not. President Trump may not behave in a very attractive manner, but he is  striking out at the political, academic, media and bureaucratic classes which are "credentialed but not expert in much of anything". Just counting the various political, military, security and economic crises since 2000 (including disease outbreaks like SARS, H1N1 and Ebola) and you understand why people are concluding the "elites" running things have no idea how to actually handle these issues. The handling of the current Pandemic may just be the last straw for many people, but there was already a groundswell which led to the 2016 election result.

And I also believe that this is the reason Trump's "base" is so unshakable - people have limited ability to fight back against the structures and institutions they see as being stacked against them. Few politicians besides Trump even claim to work against the "elites", much less actually demonstrate results.

How this plays out in the end is going to be interesting - now that people feel empowered to fight by Trump, or pushing back against the social and economic restrictions being imposed by State and local governments, or creating "2A Sanctuary counties" or the dozens of other examples of pushback we read in the news, a Biden victory might only spin the wheels faster (especially a contentious one through ballot harvesting and mail in ballots).

 

[Blackadder1916]

A British view on the debates. . . .

By Chris Buskirk

A "British" view?  How is that, because it's a .uk site?

https://www.nytimes.com/by/christopher-buskirk

Christopher Buskirk
Christopher Buskirk is editor and publisher of the journal American Greatness, a co-author of “American Greatness: How Conservatism, Inc. Missed the 2016 Election and What the D.C. Establishment Needs to Learn,”

 

[Remius]

Here is a bit of a better British view of the debate.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/sep/30/trump-biden-debate-britain-special-relationship